Went to the range. Got shot at!

[AJ]

The next city north of us has some nice ranges. But from what I have seen they have at least one rifle/pistol range that is unsupervised as is the .22 LR range that I saw. Will not go back. Did not get shot at, but on a cold line for target repair there were folks at the firing point doing things with rifles. The County Range here is supervised by at least one if not two range officers on each the pistol and the rifle ranges. When the line is cold, no one is allowed at the firing points or to handle any firearms. Still even then accidents happen and folks have been shot (usually by themselves doing stupid things). Did have one guy shoot another with a rimfire lever rifle. When the line is being called cold, the shooters are told to fire their guns until empty ("fire what you have in your firearm, but do not reload"), then to leave the action open and step back behind a red line. The guy with the lever rifle left the lever down and the range officer saw the chamber was empty. He was told he could move his rifle back and put it in his case. preparing to go home. Well he did that and closed the lever and pulled the trigger to let the hammer down. Of course there was a round still in the tube magazine and the lifter brought it up and chambered it in the process. You guessed it "Bang" it went and some poor guy two lanes down said I have been shot! Several new range rules became effective immediately. The first of which is there must be a range flag in the chamber at all times when not actually shooting.......

 

[AJ]

I'm not trying to excuse the inexcusable but it sounds like the man was distracted by the three young shooters he was training. Given that he profusely apologized, left a box of ammo as a form of atonement, and departed the area immediately I suspect he has learned his lesson too. Thank God no one was hurt in what could have been a very expensive lesson.

If he could not keep track of himself how could he ever truly safely teach others to shoot. When I teach I do not shoot at all. Did this just last week with a Nephew.

 

[greenwellg]

I had to almost constantly remind my older brother who shot 249/250 at Parris Island and wanted to be a sniper, to get his finger off the trigger until his rifle was pointed towards the target at a highly supervised range in York County, Lafayette gun club. My oldest surviving brother works there today as a range officer. First born died of terminal brain cancer at almost the same age I am today.
I go to an indoor range that has live photo supervision and get a thumbs up from the video observer every time I walk back to the front of the shop-store.
Hands aren't stable, vision is not that great, but they get the job done.

 

[Muss Muggins]

I would have beat the brakes off of him when I returned to the firing line. His kids would have had to drive him home . . .

 

[dben002]

At my outdoor range they have a Range Master...
When the firing line is "clear" those who need to change or adjust targets and go downrange.

Those who do not go downrange must empty weapons, open the breach, and leave the weapons on the table assigned to them and they must stand 10 feet behind the table with no weapons. Every station has this printed in big letters and posted.....if you don't abide by these instructions you are banned from this range for 6 months....

The Range Master sees that this is done in all instances.....

Might want to make some suggestions to your range owner....

 

[besshoudini]

If you where at gun club I would get his name if you have a sign in sheet give it to the club officer to get talking too. He needs to be educated on range rules.

 

[pasound]

6string, that's a scary incident.
I had a similar incident at a local public range that I no longer visit. Never any range officer, no local State Forest officers.

I set up to shoot my 10-22, ten bays, about seven occupied. I was two from the last one far left. Shooting had settled down, and a guy pulled up in a hot rod Ford, and pulled a big bag from his trunk. He started setting up in the last bay, left of me, and I asked an "all clear?" to go set up a stand and some paper targets. Got waves from every bay.

I'm 25-ish yards down range, pounding my stand down into the hard earth with a hammer, and I hear a KABOOM behind me to the left. The idiot wasn't even shooting at a target, he was just trying out his new 300 Blackout to see if they worked, shooting at the hillside about 150 yards away.

I turned and ran back and started screaming invectives at him, and noticed most of the other shooters had come up behind me to stand. I didn't have a handgun that day, but several of them did, and they were showing them in a "protective" stance.

He never said a word. He packed his stuff and drove off. I only ever visited the range one more time, and it was equally unattractive, just not dangerous like before. I don't go back, and never recommend it.

 

[GypsmJim]

My club has several ranges. All have a safe line 6 feet behind the bench. We have no range officer.

When you want to go downrange, everyone has to clear their weapon, open the breach put a plastic yellow flag in the barrel and then move to behind the line.

It is customary for the person going down range to walk the bench, check for flags and then make sure everyone is behind the line.

Any violation would be reported to Club Management. Most likely handling a gun when someone is downrange would cause a warning and loss of benefits for a month. Shooting while someone is downrange would be automatic termination.

If that happened at my club I would have asked for the person's membership card and he would have been reported.

If I was at a club that did not have such safety procedures I would not belong there.

 

[pasound]

Sadly. this range is totally public. No membership, and seemingly, no rules.

 

[6string]

The next city north of us has some nice ranges. But from what I have seen they have at least one rifle/pistol range that is unsupervised as is the .22 LR range that I saw. Will not go back. Did not get shot at, but on a cold line for target repair there were folks at the firing point doing things with rifles. The County Range here is supervised by at least one if not two range officers on each the pistol and the rifle ranges. When the line is cold, no one is allowed at the firing points or to handle any firearms. Still even then accidents happen and folks have been shot (usually by themselves doing stupid things). Did have one guy shoot another with a rimfire lever rifle. When the line is being called cold, the shooters are told to fire their guns until empty ("fire what you have in your firearm, but do not reload"), then to leave the action open and step back behind a red line. The guy with the lever rifle left the lever down and the range officer saw the chamber was empty. He was told he could move his rifle back and put it in his case. preparing to go home. Well he did that and closed the lever and pulled the trigger to let the hammer down. Of course there was a round still in the tube magazine and the lifter brought it up and chambered it in the process. You guessed it "Bang" it went and some poor guy two lanes down said I have been shot! Several new range rules became effective immediately. The first of which is there must be a range flag in the chamber at all times when not actually shooting.......

It's difficult to put a "Like" on an excellent post when the description is of an unfortunate or horrific incident.

Of course, the thought of someone pulling the trigger without muzzle awareness is sickening.
I wonder about some of these incidents from the standpoint of liability.
I guess that could be a subject of its own!

 

[6string]

I'd like to express my thanks to every single person who took the time to write a reply.
I have tremendous respect for all of your thoughts, suggestions, and opinions.

At this point, the question that stands looming is, what is the best next step?

I can possibly report this to Department of Natural Resources, not so much as a complaint but, rather, as an incident FYI. Certainly, my intent is not to do anything to threaten the existence or operation of these ranges. But, there must be some measure of precaution that can be taken?
One thought might be to request a "red line" a few behind the firing line, with a clearly posted sign stating that everyone must remain behind the line, with all guns and ammo left on the bench, whenever the range is cold, and people may go forward to post targets.
Perhaps that might be the most obvious and overt step, where any and all can positively confirm a physical separation of shooters and firearms while someone is downrange.

However, if existing posted rules aren't being followed, do more rules really help?
There is still much to figure out….

 

[S-W4EVER]

If he could not keep track of himself how could he ever truly safely teach others to shoot. When I teach I do not shoot at all...

Same here. When I was teaching the girls to shoot I didn't shoot until after they were done. Funny thing is even though I enjoy shooting, I enjoyed training them more. They both went on to serve in the Army, the younger one regularly shot Expert (as an Officer, no less).

Getting back to the incident in question, I see a training issue, not misconduct. The man made a mistake, but to his credit at least he's trying to introduce new shooters to a sport we all love. I suspect (& hope) it's a mistake he will never repeat...

 

[Tom S.]

As a product of the 50's our ranges did not have range officers. Everyone there always seemed to know and respect the key safety procedures, and I don't remember ever seeing any unsafe incidents. Then, a few decades later, the state range where I do all my outdoor shooting started manning the range with officers. At first, it seemed like a pain because it added downtime while the officer checked everyone's shooting site to make sure the guns were unloaded and explained to everyone to stay away from their bench until the "all clear" was sounded. But soon I noticed how frequently you heard the range officers tell someone to step back away from their bench and remain behind the yellow line while target checks were being conducted. Such warnings are reminders that people are not always safety conscious, and we should not rely on them to act appropriately, especially when firearms are involved. Now days, I would hesitate to shoot at range without a range officer or some sort of supervision.

Additionally, trips to both the state range and indoor ranges have innumerable reminders of accidental discharges in the form of bullet holes where none should exist. I often wonder how someone could be so careless or stupid, but the "how" doesn't matter. The fact that they "are" is the important lesson we need to remember to be more aware of other people's carelessness/stupidity if we wish to remain safe.

 

[Erich]

A grim story, very well told (the reason for my "like"). I appreciate your reminder of how serious it is every time we go for a leisurely practice (or even handle a firearm).

 

[Harrison]

About 15 years ago a friend and I were at an outdoor range, where we were annual members. Two men were on the rifle range shooting. We asked if we could go down range and set up our targets. Both shooters agreed and benched their rifles. My friend was mobility impaired so we drove in his bright red 3/4 ton GMC PU down to the 100 yard line. While putting up our targets we heard two shoots and dirt kicked up from the berm.

We immediately drove back to the firing line. One gentleman was reloading his rifle My buddy and I were upset to say the least. The guy claimed he did not see us, nor did he see a long bed, 3/4 ton red PU. We immediately went to the range house and reported the incident. The owner of the range was a former long time county sheriff, and was still a reserve deputy. He immediately confiscated the one man's rifle and called the Sheriff's Dept. The guy was arrested, and his rifle taken away. I never did hear what happened to him.

 

[03hemi]

...and that is why I don't go to public ranges anymore.

 

[dsf]

Cannot put a like to your post, but thank you for posting it.

As for "I'm surprised it took this long!", I think this goes for all ranges without an appointed line controller. The nearest I came to this was when returning to the line a guy at a nearby bench looked up and exclaimed, "OMG, there was one more guy down range." Best I could do was make a crack about knowing a good optician.

Having an RTO (or even two) doesn't always prevent accidents. Although lessens the offense a bit.

I've been down range twice on an outdoor rifle range when I heard "ready on the pistol range, ready on the rifle range?" over the intercom and next would have been "commence firing". Figured the best place for me to be in that situation was in line with my vacant bench.

6'5" and wearing a bright red shirt. Twice. Maybe the RTO doesn't like me.

 

[zeke]

Our private range has no rso supervision. Am familiar with the rules, because i wrote them and willing to assist others in their understanding of them. Generally well behaved patrons but i will not go to any range without a useful sized cc.

 

[Greyman50]

Never had military weapons training and dag gone sure not on a military shooting team.
Was RSO for our MG shoots for years and thank God no issues.

 

[Shibadog]

I really dislike public ranges for that very reason, but I'm leery of ALL ranges. Too many loose nuts on the end of the triggers.

 

[S-W4EVER]

I really dislike public ranges for that very reason, but I'm leery of ALL ranges. Too many loose nuts on the end of the triggers.

I try to go to the (private) range when it's not crowded, I will leave early if I don't feel comfortable when the idiots arrive (no RSO).

 

[zeke]

Glad you're alright. Next time get a license plate and report it to whomever. No matter how apologetic the guy was, he (and his kids) don't belong on any range. Even if you need to call the police and report some kind of assault or endangerment.

 

[GypsmJim]

There was only one "private" range I ever encountered in my neighborhood. It wasn't actually a "range", but simply a quarry that people went to shoot.

I went there for a few years, and then found some shooters that were, should I say, were less than safe.

That encouraged me to join a club. After being a long time member, my fee is now $40 a year for a senior, with 24/7 range access and no range fee.

I realize that shooting in NY state is considered to be a problem, but LOL it works for me.

 

[AJ]

Our range is a county run range. The have a rifle range, a pistol range, skeet & trap ranges and Five Stand. The rifle and pistol ranges have two RSO's on each. Week days is better to go as less traffic (read less Billy Bobs shooting. We stay away on the weekends as that is when 'Unsafe Folks" tend to show up. RSO's have told more than one person to leave and a few have had all range privileges pulled.

 

[smithman 10]

I've seen quite a few unsafe incidents at the range where I am currently a member. But it is better now under a new manager. The ranges, particularly the pistol range, are monitored on video.

And of course everyone present on the range is a de facto Range Safety Officer.

Still, my motto is trust no one. Head on a swivel at all times.

For instance, if I am alone on one of the rifle ranges and go down to change targets I disable my rifle on the bench by taking the bolt out and sticking it in a pocket!

Plus, I always have a loaded concealed carry revolver on my person.

On the pistol range, a person must always be vigilant. Frequently there will be new shooters who have not heard the repetition of the safety rules often enough for them to ingrain them in memory. They may get so enthused they just fail to exercise good judgment.

The worst thing to do is to say something like "What kind of pistol ya got there?" when the range is cold and shooters are downrange posting targets. The first impulse in response to that question is for them to pick up the handgun and show it to the questioner.

So, head on a swivel and don't be shy about pointing out safety violations in a calm, polite but forceful, clear and direct manner. Nine times out of ten the offending party will thank you and perhaps a lesson will have been learned.

And should you make a mistake yourself (and you probably will sometime) thank your fellow shooter for pointing it out to you.

 

[AJ]

I've seen quite a few unsafe incidents at the range where I am currently a member. But it is better now under a new manager. The ranges, particularly the pistol range, are monitored on video.



Plus, I always have a loaded concealed carry revolver on my person.

I would really feel safe with someone watching a video screen...........Not! You got to watch the bozo's physically to try to ensure that they don't do something stupid and still they do.

Carrying a loaded concealed weapon on our county range will get your privileges revoked permanently! Even if you are a cop. County Range rules are no loaded firearms on the range property period, the only exception is on the firing lines when under supervision.

 

[smithman 10]

I would really feel safe with someone watching a video screen...........Not! You got to watch the bozo's physically to try to ensure that they don't do something stupid and still they do.

Carrying a loaded concealed weapon on our county range will get your privileges revoked permanently! Even if you are a cop. County Range rules are no loaded firearms on the range property period, the only exception is on the firing lines when under supervision.

I am glad the range I belong to has no such restriction.

 

[GypsmJim]

The worst thing to do is to say something like "What kind of pistol ya got there?" when the range is cold and shooters are downrange posting targets. The first impulse in response to that question is for them to pick up the handgun and show it to the questioner.

My range has a big red sign on the wall posting the rules. If someone is down range everyone else has to be behind the safety line. All guns on the bench must be open for inspection and a yellow flag must be in the breach. The person that goes downrange is the safety officer that checks each weapon. No handling of weapons is allowed - period.

 

[gwpercle]

Never Underestimate the ... Power of Stoopid !
Gary

 

[AJ]

Never Underestimate the ... Power of Stoopid !
Gary

That is why no concealed weapons are allowed. Lots of Stoopid people doing stupid things.