What can we do to end this madness?

.......We are in one of, if not the worst, periods of ramped up crime this country has ever faced.

Not even close. Crime peaked in the 70s. Since '85, it peaked (at much lower rates) in '92 for both violent and property crime. Data, not news hype, is easily available.

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Mid-Year 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice

Three Strikes laws (or selective long-term incarceration of repeat violent offenders) work. They're expensive, but they work.
 
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The problem isn't just the mayors and prosecutors encouraging criminal behavior. It is also US, for not researching candidates and voting for these dirtbags. I'm guilty of this too, it takes work and it is too easy to concentrate on just the big national elections.

We also need to research the candidates for local judges, school boards, and state offices. At the last election I actually did look up the candidates for the local school board. There was only 1 candidate that was not a woke idiot. I voted for him, so of course he lost.

I think it was Thomas Jefferson who said "A people tends to get the government it deserves".
 
Well somebody would have to draw that line, and it is YOUR proposal.

And some people would be found guilty and executed on the spot, just like a wild west lynching. Who gets to make that decision in each case?

Of course you would have to amend the Constitution to eliminate those pesky due process rights, including trial by jury of peers. Seems to me like that kind of "justice" was one of the things we revolted against Mother England over.

Nah, I don't think we really wanna' go there. WAY too much room for error and/or abuse.

Yeah, abolishing civil rights and due process isn't the answer.

I forget who said this: "If you want less of something, tax it. If you want more of something, subsidize it". Guess which we do?

I'll depart with some over singling out use of firearms as deserving "extra special" punishment. That just plays into the antis mantra that guns are evil. A crime committed with a firearm is no worse than a crime committed with any other weapon. Do you suppose a stabbing victim's last thought was "I'm glad it was a knife instead of a gun!"

The punishment should fit the crime, regardless of the weapon used.
 
https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/weba...me/crime-trend

Pretty interesting group that is writing these reports, and what data came from what cities.

"The reports are based on monthly incident-level data obtained from online portals of city police departments. Incident counts are collected within days of the end of the study period to provide a timely snapshot of crime across the nation. As a result, these figures may and often do differ from data subsequently published by the police departments and from other counts released later by the FBI as part of its national crime reporting program. For the most up-to-date information for a specific city, please visit its website."
 
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Malum Prohibitum and Malum in se are not just made up concepts, they are established legal terms, their meaning is well understood in the legal profession. Of course there is differences of opinions as to which category a law might fall under. Most should be obvious under the 'reasonable person" standard.

Yeah, thanks for that lawyerly "explanation" - you obviously missed the point I was trying to make. I wasn't implying that the terms you referred to were "made up" concepts. I know that these terms aren't something you just made up on the spot. My point was that, while Latin terms of law may sound impressive, they are meaningless to most people outside the legal profession. Know your audience. There aren't that many lawyers here.

Sure, I was able to figure out what you were trying to say in your original post, no problem.

But a lot of people might not be willing or able to invest the time and effort to translate those Latin phrases into English in order to really understand the point you were trying so hard to make.

So, while your point was clear and obvious to your fellow lawyers and legal professionals, what did your use of Latin do for communicating your point to the masses?

Did it persuade anyone? Did it CLEARLY communicate the idea you were trying to get across, in a way that most people would understand (without using Google Translate)?

Nope.

So what did it accomplish? Showing us your command of Latin? Or demonstrating your legal prowess? Making you look smarter than the rest of us?

I can't help but think about another recent thread about engineers and "geekspeak". If what you have to say is total gibberish to the average person, what are your eloquent (Latin words) worth? Not much IMO.

No disrespect intended. I'm just trying to help you broaden your perspective to include those of us outside of the circle of legal scholars and lawyers.

If you speak in lawyer-ese, most people won't get your point.

That's my point. I hope that makes sense?
 
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https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/weba...me/crime-trend

Pretty interesting group that is writing these reports, and what data came from what cities.

"The reports are based on monthly incident-level data obtained from online portals of city police departments. Incident counts are collected within days of the end of the study period to provide a timely snapshot of crime across the nation. As a result, these figures may and often do differ from data subsequently published by the police departments and from other counts released later by the FBI as part of its national crime reporting program. For the most up-to-date information for a specific city, please visit its website."

This is the successor to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, collected by the FBI since 1931.
 
Not even close. Crime peaked in the 70s. Since '85, it peaked (at much lower rates) in '92 for both violent and property crime. Data, not news hype, is easily available.

https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/explorer/crime/crime-trend

Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Mid-Year 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice

Three Strikes laws (or selective long-term incarceration of repeat violent offenders) work. They're expensive, but they work.

Yeah, we still haven't gone back to the worst crime spikes of the early 1990's - yet.

HOWEVER, we are seeing the most dramatic INCREASES in violent crime rates since the early 1990's.

We've seen crime statistics trending steadily DOWNWARD for the last 25-30 years. But then, suddenly, in mid 2020, and in the subsequent 3 years, we have seen a DRAMATIC increase in crime. Especially in VIOLENT crimes.

Looks to me like we may be in better shape than we were in the early 1990's - but unfortunately, we seem to be trending in the wrong direction.
 
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Yeah, abolishing civil rights and due process isn't the answer.

I forget who said this: "If you want less of something, tax it. If you want more of something, subsidize it". Guess which we do?

I'll depart with some over singling out use of firearms as deserving "extra special" punishment. That just plays into the antis mantra that guns are evil. A crime committed with a firearm is no worse than a crime committed with any other weapon. Do you suppose a stabbing victim's last thought was "I'm glad it was a knife instead of a gun!"

The punishment should fit the crime, regardless of the weapon used.

"Aggravated" usually means with any weapon.
 
It's all part of the long-term plan of globalization. Western culture has to be broken down and wealth redistributed. Look it up.
The recipe.
Destroy law enforcement as we know it. Make the job so bad that no one will want to work it. Introduce non-Americans to be our peacekeepers (ie Illinois recently passed) Starting now.

Bring in left wing judges, prosecutors and attorney generals and governors to keep the criminals revolving so they can create more chaos, thus causing more pressure on banning firearms and taking away law abiding citizens' rights. Happened, is still ongoing.

At the same time suppress the 1st Amendment Rights and spread lies and propaganda. Happening now.

Give people things to buy votes. The great war on poverty. Destroys families by making the government the provider of the family thus destroying the traditional father role model/bread winner. Also helps destroy the work ethic. It's been happening since the 1960s.

Destroy people's spiritual belief system, thus destroying mankind's basic natural laws of civility. It's been happening since the 1960's.

Destroy the education system. Dumb people do dumb things. Happening now.

Introduce as many illegal and prescription drugs as possible to aid in the destruction of normal thinking and increasing criminality which aids helps create more violence, thus giving more effort to ban firearms. Happening now.
Read history. Read about pre–Nazi Germany. Read the book "Rules for Radicals by Saul Alinsky. Wake up or say goodbye to America.
 
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Yeah, thanks for that lawyerly "explanation" - you obviously missed the point I was trying to make. I wasn't implying that the terms you referred to were "made up" concepts. I know that these terms aren't something you just made up on the spot. My point was that, while Latin terms of law may sound impressive, they are meaningless to most people outside the legal profession. Know your audience. There aren't that many lawyers here.

Sure, I was able to figure out what you were trying to say in your original post, no problem.

But a lot of people might not be willing or able to invest the time and effort to translate those Latin phrases into English in order to really understand the point you were trying so hard to make.

So, while your point was clear and obvious to your fellow lawyers and legal professionals, what did your use of Latin do for communicating your point to the masses?

Did it persuade anyone? Did it CLEARLY communicate the idea you were trying to get across, in a way that most people would understand (without using Google Translate)?

Nope.

So what did it accomplish? Showing us your command of Latin? Or demonstrating your legal prowess? Making you look smarter than the rest of us?

I can't help but think about another recent thread about engineers and "geekspeak". If what you have to say is total gibberish to the average person, what are your eloquent (Latin words) worth? Not much IMO.

No disrespect intended. I'm just trying to help you broaden your perspective to include those of us outside of the circle of legal scholars and lawyers.

If you speak in lawyer-ese, most people won't get your point.

That's my point. I hope that makes sense?

Yeah, I get what you are saying, I could have provided a link to the definition. I used those terms for a couple reasons:

* It is the most direct and concise way I could think of to make my point.

* I know from past experience that if I had not used established legal terms, I would have been accused of making up some sort of nutty fringe philosophy, against which defending myself would have detracted from the thread.

In short, I preferred to nip it all in the bud.
 
This is the successor to the FBI Uniform Crime Report, collected by the FBI since 1931.

Sorry i copied the wrong link, and couldn't get the previous link to work. The quote came from info on this link.

Crime Trends in U.S. Cities: Mid-Year 2023 Update - Council on Criminal Justice

This "Council on Criminal Justice" does not appear to be a successor to the FBI reports, but done by this "council" in advance of the FBIs report.

Pretty interesting group that is writing these reports, and what data came from what cities. The following is a direct quote indicating such. They appear to be privately funded through donations and promoting "equity"

"The reports are based on monthly incident-level data obtained from online portals of city police departments. Incident counts are collected within days of the end of the study period to provide a timely snapshot of crime across the nation. As a result, these figures may and often do differ from data subsequently published by the police departments and from other counts released later by the FBI as part of its national crime reporting program. For the most up-to-date information for a specific city, please visit its website."

They used only one category of crime from New York, and non from L.A? Not much for detail in this report.
 
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No troubles - ignore the CCJ info and other nongovernmental data and use this link - https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/home

Once there, click on 'Go' under Crime Data Explorer.

Longer term UCR data is here: FBI — Crime in the U.S. Pick a year (I used 2019), click on it, then click on the 2nd link under the year. That takes you to that year's 'Crime in the United States.' Look for FBI — Table 1 for a 10 year trend of violent crime (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault) nationwide.
 
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No troubles - ignore the CCJ info and other nongovernmental data and use this link - https://cde.ucr.cjis.gov/LATEST/webapp/#/pages/home

Once there, click on 'Go' under Crime Data Explorer.

Longer term UCR data is here: FBI — Crime in the U.S. Pick a year (I used 2019), click on it, then click on the 2nd link under the year. That takes you to that year's 'Crime in the United States.' Look for FBI — Table 1 for a 10 year trend of violent crime (murder, rape, robbery, aggravated assault) nationwide.

thanks, just had to have some more patience for the link to load, and am putting more reliance on the FBI's data. However it too is dependent on who is voluntarily reporting data. about 2/3's of the agencies. Still it is indicative.
 
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