HAWKEYE10
Member
i have heard that you should always carry factory ammo in your gun. i have heard it said that lawyers will use reloads against you in court.what do you think.
don
what do you think? carry factory or reloads
- Thread starter HAWKEYE10
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BobsSmith
Member
I have heard the same thing. Frankly I don't see any point in using reloads. Lot of good factory loads. Use reloads for practice.
Just my opinion. Do w/e floats your boat.
Bob
Just my opinion. Do w/e floats your boat.
Bob
Would prosecutors use your reloads against you in court? If they knew enough about ammunition, they might. But prosecutors are usually up to their necks in cases, and must prove guilt to the jury beyond reasonable doubt. And if their case gets reversed on appeal, their reputation is damaged, but not their income. They get paid anyway, until they lose a few cases too many, or their political party gets voted out of office.
The biggest problem would be in civil law suits, which often follow criminal case dismissals. "Beyond reasonable doubt" no longer applies. The plaintiff's attorney most likely would take the case on contingency -- he/she gets a cut of the loot with a win, nothing with a loss. A plaintiff's attorney will grasp at anything useful, and use it to whack you about the head and shoulders in front of the jury. That's his/her job, his/her meal ticket.
Massad Ayoob has said it: don't use "cop killer ammo" (i.e., reloads) for self defense. I would add that there is so much good factory ammo out there, I don't see how you could improve upon it with your reloads.
I'm not an attorney, but I once dreamed I was. Woke up in a cold sweat!
Cordially, Jack
The biggest problem would be in civil law suits, which often follow criminal case dismissals. "Beyond reasonable doubt" no longer applies. The plaintiff's attorney most likely would take the case on contingency -- he/she gets a cut of the loot with a win, nothing with a loss. A plaintiff's attorney will grasp at anything useful, and use it to whack you about the head and shoulders in front of the jury. That's his/her job, his/her meal ticket.
Massad Ayoob has said it: don't use "cop killer ammo" (i.e., reloads) for self defense. I would add that there is so much good factory ammo out there, I don't see how you could improve upon it with your reloads.
I'm not an attorney, but I once dreamed I was. Woke up in a cold sweat!
Cordially, Jack
OP
HAWKEYE10
Member
you could have fooled me. thats what i was thinking, just like to get other opinions.
don
flop-shank
US Veteran
When factory ammo stops being rife with defects, I'll consider returning to it's use. The crap costs too much anyway.
Do a search here, this topic has been discussed to a high degree.
Spotteddog
Member
Even @ $1.00-$1.50 a round filling a carry gun and a reload worth isn't going to break the bank. $50.00 seems like a lot, till you consider what your peace of mind is worth. I've done a yin/yang on it. Availability is where I come down on it now. If one or the other has a far better bullet for what I'm concerned with that's what I'll use. One things for sure though! Only having reloads available would never keep me from carrying the weapon just because that's all it could be filled with.
This subject gets beat to death about twice a month. The bottom line (IMHO) is that it SHOULDN'T make a difference, but it can (and has). Why throw one more possible problem into the equation? Most jurors are not shooters. Most shooters are not reloaders. All it takes is one lawyer or one dumbass DA to convince a jury that you were just itching to try out your home brew on somebody to cause you no end of grief. In addition, factory ammo has known powder discharge patterns, which can be accurately recorded, predicted and analyzed and which CAN aid you in court. Your home loads don't. The most recent prior string that I remember even quotes chapter and verse on the subject.
I do both. My carry firearms have only factory ammo, yet my house revolver only has reloads. It's an old 10-6 that I just use for informal target practice, loaded with 158gn SWC. Then again my house revolver is merely backing up my Ithaca 37.
Erich
Member
Hey . . . what's it been? A couple of months?
Andy Taylor
Member
I recall a couple of years back that a man in Arizona, a relitively gun friendly state, got a lot of grief over the fact that he used a 10mm. "A gun more powerful than even most cops carry". was what the prosecution used against him. He eventually won, but at what cost? Reloads could be used against you. It really shouldn't make a difference, and in most cases it won't. With the current quality of factory ammo I see no reason to risk being the scapegoat for some idiot DA. That being said, if I just couldn't locate any factory ammo, I would carry reloads.
Erich
Member
No, Mr. Fish did not win.
acl864
Member
I carry what will give me the best chance of survival. That's my only concern. In the very, very unlikely event that I have to use one of my guns in a real life self-defense situation my only goal is to survive. If I manage to do that- then I'll worry about the legalities. You can spend your whole life playing out what-if scenarios. As for me, I'll be out in the backyard practicing with my reloads.
38-44HD45
Absent Comrade
Andy Taylor
Member
My mistake Erich. I thought he had.
Erich
Member
Sadly, amigo, . . .
elcruisr
US Veteran
Location can matter a lot. In FL no mind is paid to the gun, the holster, the load, the phase of the moon and whether or not you have read all of Ayoobs books! It was either a good and legal act of self defense or it wasn't. If it was legal we are protected from civil lawsuits. Thankfully the politicians got it mostly right here so far.
Erich
Member
Well, you're right as far as the left coast, etc., but I still think it's a concern anywhere. Mas lives in FL at least part time, and I believe he carries factory nevertheless. And the AZ is hardly a hotbed of pinkos.
As you all know, I carry both handloads and factory, but I'm reasonably comfortable in a courtroom and I'll be the first to agree that Mas is right that one should minimize potential problems. Mas gives the advice that I would give a paying client and that I gave my little brother (who lives in a state that's even less pinko than FL on this issue).
As you all know, I carry both handloads and factory, but I'm reasonably comfortable in a courtroom and I'll be the first to agree that Mas is right that one should minimize potential problems. Mas gives the advice that I would give a paying client and that I gave my little brother (who lives in a state that's even less pinko than FL on this issue).
