What exactly does my coworker have

[linde]

For the when-----------------------------------

#646192 went out March 20, 1934

#659118 went out December 23, 1936 . . .

.38 M&P Target #633616 shipped September 19, 1931 and
K-22 Outdoorsman #654997 shipped December 17, 1935

Based on the above dates I would estimate #649920 shipped sometime in the second half of1934.

Outstanding example . . . a family treasure for sure,

Russ

 

[ArchAngelCD]

Correct Gun Box?

What color and style was the original factory box for the 1948 S&W 38 M&P? It's a 4" model.

 

[wheelgun610]

What color and style was the original factory box for the 1948 S&W 38 M&P? It's a 4" model.

That's around the time they started shipping in the gold boxes with blue lettering. Those boxes lasted into the mid 50's, though some slow movers were shipped in those boxes much later.

Mark

 

[Targets Guy]

Much like this one which shipped in 1950.

 

[rct269]

WHOOPS!!!

Were those target models? Thanks.

Yes, but I screwed the pooch on the first one---grabbed the wrong letter---and it's an Outdoorsman (.22)----same serial number series---wrong gun. The next best I have for an earlier M&P Target is 640816-----February 8, 1932.

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Targets Guy]

.38 M&P Target #633616 shipped September 19, 1931 and
K-22 Outdoorsman #654997 shipped December 17, 1935

Based on the above dates I would estimate #649920 shipped sometime in the second half of1934.

Outstanding example . . . a family treasure for sure,

Russ

s/n 652589 shipped 7/35.

 

[rct269]

HOW HIGH IS UP?!!

I just sent one in about identical condition to David Carroll, except it had the HBH and a 674,000 serial #. We'll see how good your estimates are whenever it sells.

Well, given the fever Humpback Hammers cause----poker's going UP!!!!

Ralph Tremaine

 

[Lt JL]

what a sweetie!

 

[glowe]

Where to start . . . with so much information out there already, I will comment on ship date first.I think we make too much of the Great Depression. It affected the sales of everything from 1929 crash to the early 1930s. By the time this revolver shipped, dates of documented 38 Military & Police, 4th Change revolvers were pretty much in order and almost certainly would have shipped in the first half of 1935. Examples from the SWCA database are below.

648XXX March 1935
648XXX February 1935
648XXX December 1934
649XXX June 1935
650XXX 1935
651XXX May 1935

This model included K22 and target guns all in the same serial number range as standard 38 M&Ps. The factory box for this gun was the maroon patent box which was used up to early post-WWII years. It was either a hinged box or two-piece with dual Instructions in English and Spanish.

As for value, 1935 is not that old as a collector gun and condition has to be very high to obtain big money. SCSW4 states that a standard "As New" condition 38 M&P, 4th would be worth $1200. An Excellent condition specimen would be worth $600. Excellent for guns made in this era would have to be above 95%. Notes in the book include a particular specimen sold at a RIA for $2500 in 98% condition. The target variation "is worth premium". I have been watching 38 M&P targets sold through online auction sites and the average for an excellent condition gun seem to be around $1500 - $1800. A 100% "As New" target would probably be worth $3000 today.

 

[Tam 3]

632396 shipped Apr. 1931.

Regards,

Tam 3

 

[DWalt]

Someone sure took care of that gun. What a wonderful heirloom. My cousin and my older brother's family have both of the civil war muskets my great-grandfather used in the civil war. I think it is terrific to have something from a generation twice removed or more from you.

I have my wife's great-grandfather's Enfield (with bayonet) and 1849 Colt he used during the Civil War. He was on the Southern side. Somewhere we have a picture of him in his old age (at least he had a long white beard) holding the Enfield. When we got it, it was still loaded. I did replace the nipple as it was pretty well battered.

 

[AlHunt]

If you buy it, get the box. Value, $700-900.

Wait a minute.

Are you saying that a non-factory presentation box is worth that much? Why? Because of it's presumed age?

I'll go start making boxes right away ...

 

[jsfricks]

Originally Posted by gmborkovic View Post
If you buy it, get the box. Value, $700-900.


Wait a minute.

Are you saying that a non-factory presentation box is worth that much? Why? Because of it's presumed age?

I'll go start making boxes right away ...

I’m not real sure what he’s getting at there. IMHO, the box itself is worth less than half that. The value that lies in the box is that it was acquired with this revolver. The box is worth more with the gun than without, meaning if the box was sold separately it might bring $200-$300. But if sold with the gun I believe would add $350 plus.

 

[kennethg]

Very nice!

 

[Muley Gil]

Someone sure took care of that gun. What a wonderful heirloom. My cousin and my older brother's family have both of the civil war muskets my great-grandfather used in the civil war. I think it is terrific to have something from a generation twice removed or more from you.

Tell us about the muskets please. Pictures would be nice.

Generally, at the beginning of the War of Northern Aggression, many troops were issued second class weapons, such as flintlock smoothbores, percussion conversions of flintlocks, Prussian and Austrian muskets. Later, some Union troops were upgraded to Enfields and then standardized with Springfields.

I'm not aware of any soldiers that got to keep any of their issued weapons. At the end of the war, Union soldiers were allowed to buy their arms.

 

[DWalt]

The South was much more haphazardly armed than the North. Many Confederate troops brought their personal guns into battle, especially during the early stages of the war. The Confederacy bought whatever guns were available wherever they could find them, which were often various Austrian and Belgian muskets. Many Enfields came from England, and they were about the best arms the Confederates had, comparable in every way to the North's Springfields, and they both fired the same size .58 Minie balls. The North also bought many British Enfields, one of the reasons being that every one that the North bought was one kept out of Southern hands.

Probably the single most authoritative reference on the many different small arms used by both sides is William B. Edwards' book Civil War Guns.

 

[Targets Guy]

Tell us about the muskets please. Pictures would be nice.

Generally, at the beginning of the War of Northern Aggression, many troops were issued second class weapons, such as flintlock smoothbores, percussion conversions of flintlocks, Prussian and Austrian muskets. Later, some Union troops were upgraded to Enfields and then standardized with Springfields.

I'm not aware of any soldiers that got to keep any of their issued weapons. At the end of the war, Union soldiers were allowed to buy their arms.

Been a long time since I have seen them. I know one was from England and it was in the best shape. I learned the manual of arms on it. Wore the belt with the US buckle and the bayonet had the scabbard. Also had a small leather case that I always thought was the bullet box but never knew. My greatgrandads brother was a corporal and the color bearer and was killed in action just outside of Atlanta. Greatgrandad picked up the flag and was also wounded. I am not sure why he had the second rifle, I guess I always thought it was his brothers but it seems hard to believe he would carry that thing around for the last year of the war.

After Atlanta they went to Savannah and then up the east coast. His last "heavy combat" was Cold Harbor. He never even got to go into DC after the war. When they got there they got put on a train back to Illinois.

For that wound and a case of pneumonia he contracted during basic outside of Chicago in 1863 he began receiving $4 a month disability in 1876. By the time he passed in 1934 his check was over $100 a month; not bad for the depression years.

I'll ask my cousin to send me some photos of the gun.

Here is a photo of great grandad in the late 1920's.

 

[Targets Guy]

I have my wife's great-grandfather's Enfield (with bayonet) and 1849 Colt he used during the Civil War. He was on the Southern side. Somewhere we have a picture of him in his old age (at least he had a long white beard) holding the Enfield. When we got it, it was still loaded. I did replace the nipple as it was pretty well battered.

Last week I watched Hickok 44's youtube when he fired the 1863 Springfield. He told the story that when he bought it at a gun show and had been waving it around all day when he got it home he noticed the ramrod did not go down far enough. It, too, was still loaded! Historians have reported that many weapons taken from the battlefield following the fight had multiple rounds in the barrel guessing the soldiers forgot to put on the primer.

 

[shouldazagged]

Handsome gent.

 

[Targets Guy]

Handsome gent.

He must have been quite a fellow. In addition to surviving the horrors of the civil war he ended up in his later years working for the small Iowa town he lived in. While in his 70's he put in all the sidewalks and curbs. It that photo he is about 88.