What Happened to the Love for the Shotgun?

[Goldstar225]

I never lost my affection for the shotgun as a defensive tool. Even during the time I had an AR in my patrol unit, my shotgun was ever present. This one rode with me for almost 20 years and with retirement is dedicated to home defense.

 

[mauser9]

The Remington 1100 is my hands down favorite for clays and Upland game.

 

[sheepdawg]

Why not have a classic if you're going to have one.

 

[bub075]

I still like the shotgun as an option in many situations, and have wondered why they are not used as much by officers these days.

One of the things that makes the shotgun more of a "burden" so to speak, is that even though you have a tremendous amount of firepower at your disposal in each and every round fired, you still have to account for, and are resposible for each one of those projectiles.

While shotguns are awesome for close range anti personnel use, that's their problem- they are really only good for close range. A rifle can do pretty much everything a shotgun can do, and do it at longer ranges, without the danger of a buckshot pellet (or the wad at close range) leaving the pattern, missing the target and possibly hitting something that you really don't want to hit. Granted, it may take 2-3 hits with a .223/5.56 duty carbine to equal the effectiveness that 1 round of 00 Buckshot has, but even a moderately trained person with a rifle can double or triple tap a target in the time it takes a moderately trained person to get off 1 rd of full power buckshot, cycle the action and be back on target again. In this day and age of shrinking budgets and less training, recoil of a 12ga shotgun is one of the main issues. Almost no one wants to use the shotgun because of the high recoil. A decent .223/5.56 carbine has pretty much no recoil, leading to quicker follow up shots and better control for the average Officer.

Another issue, although I think it's really overblown, is armor penetration. 00 buckshot won't penetrate most soft body armor. Backface deformation of the soft armor is more than likely to disable someone wearing soft armor if hit with full power buckshot, but it won't penetrate. With a rifle, soft armor may as well not even be there.

Yet another issue, again somewhat overblown, is ease/speed of reloading. Although the controls are a little different, a carbine operates like an Officer's handgun. The gun runs dry, you dump the empty mag, put a full one in, run the action and you are ready to go. With the shotgun, you have to reload pretty much 1 cartridge at a time into a magazine tube located on the bottom of the gun. Without some serious practice, it is a time consuming, fumble-prone process, and some fumbles can make the shotgun inoperable. And God help you if you accidentally load in a cartridge backwards (yes, it has happened in training). You're done till you can disassemble the shotgun to remove the cartridge.

Closely related is capacity. Every PD I have ever dealt with uses whatever the standard capacity of whatever the base model shotgun is (4 for Rem, 5 for Mossy). Even if they are using extended magazine tubes, that is still only 6-8 cartridges. With a carbine, you have at least 20 cartridges in the magazine and, more often, 30.

With all the liability issues nowadays in LE, it's all about precision (never mind that most Officers can't shoot for anything and will miss a LOT more than they will hit). Up till the past few years, I LOVED the shotgun and would grab it and a small bag with 10-15 extra cartridges out of the cruiser if we had a really bad call. Now, I'll grab my carbine, every time. I completely understand why shotguns are disappearing or getting repurposed for less lethal only for LE. It makes me sad, because nothing says "Stop!" like hitting someone with a round of full power 00 buckshot, but it is what it is.

 

[Drm50]

I like shotguns but the repeaters they make today have the class of a sump pump.

 

[jbtrucker]

I felt sorry for a Mossberg 500 bought at a pawn shop few months ago , looked like it was soaked with oil and bucket of dirt thrown on it. Also have my dads JC Higgins haven't shot them in awhile.

 

[DeathGrip]

I really like coach guns and riot guns.

They have their place. Sometimes collateral damage isn't a concern and trying to do triple taps on a crowd of ( insert favorite mass invasion bad guys) ain't gonna get the job done.

Look at what took out Tony Montana for proof.

 

[JayFramer]

The AR crowd has all but replaced the shotgun in the hands of many people, be they Law Enforcement or legally armed citizenry.

It's the same deal as when autos replaced revolvers back when.

I still keep an 870 Police by the bed, though. Trusty and while not as much firepower as an Armalite, it should do the trick just fine.

 

[LVSteve]

I posted a thread a few weeks ago about an auction where a LOT of 870s went cheap. Right now I see the most interest in CCW guns with ARs a distant second.

 

[pawngal]

My Grand Father bought a Remington A5 12 gauge back in the 30's. Its mine now and my favorite shotgun. I have a Stevens 355 in 20 gauge that has never been fired. I would like to find a 10 gauge pump but I'm not sure anybody even makes one.

Browning BPS 10ga pump. My husband used blast the high flying Canada Geese out of the sky with one.

 

[Ranger514]

While I understand the rationale behind LE replacing them with carbines, the versatility of shotguns, with all the different loads and configurations available, makes them far from obsolete for the rest of us. With the benefit of an extended magazine tube, a mix of 12 ga. slugs and 00B is an awesome amount of firepower to knock down an attacker, whether they be two legged or four legged.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

I love a good shotgun, which to me means primarily a 12 gauge pump gun. I have 2 Ithaca 37s, a Mossberg 835, and an old 1100 12 ga. that just keeps on running. Only 20 ga here is an 1187 full camo job I bought at a silent auction for a Christmas charity a few years ago - but it think it could grow on me. A 3" 20 gauge can do a lot...

 

[ACP230]

I go through phases. The most recent was a .22 phase. Before that I was buying .41 Magnums. I may be getting ready for another shotgun phase. Have seen a couple of interesting ones on sites on the Net.

I have a couple of pump shotguns that are more, or less, riot types.
The rest are grouse guns, although an old Model 12 in 16 gauge
has also taken squirrels, geese and a three point whitetail buck. Started
off grouse season this year with the old Model 12.

Shotguns are not going away from here anytime soon.

 

[lawandorder]

Annual LESO quals yesterday, while at the range 4 of us shot slugs from the 40 yd line. Called shot ,neck of the skeletal, Q Silhouette target we use, 4 hits where called.

Still amazed after all these years what you can do with a slug..

 

[Neversink n Klapperthal]

I sleep with a short 12 gauge next to me...

 

[Wise_A]

The market is just flooded with a ton of cheap shotguns at the moment--everything from Turkish imports, to the never-ending glut of 870 Express Magnums.

Of course the LGS isn't going to give you anything for your nicer used pump-action. You can get a name-brand disposable pump for peanuts.

Hell, this past week, I saw a couple Turkish import semi-autos, brand-new, for less than $250 with free shipping.

 

[challer61]

I believe that 3 gun is actually driving a surge in shotguns. However, the weapons of choice are not the police trade in pumps. They are all semi autos like the Benelli.

 

[mikerjf]

It's the classic Old Fart Triumvirate: J frame in the pocket, 1911 on the hip, and 12 gauge at ready!

 

[cmansguns]

Market soft? depends on what you want IMHO

I don't really see a soft or any density market for shotguns right now. Maybe because I'm not really looking to buy or sell, but among the "classics" as I see locally, prices seem pretty firm for what is actually out there for sale. Note: I'm not talking riot guns, sawed off, coach guns or any really modern repros, or so called "home defense" guns.....just the older classics that used to accompany me, (or Dad and Grandpa in even older times)...to our favorite "honey spot" in the marshes (IF we were fortunate enough to get a duck stamp that particular year), or the woods for whitetail in the county that only allowed scatterguns with plug, or the many Tuesday nights at local Rod & Gun for some low/high house fun...skeet, trap, sporting clays (a real "bear" for me to ever master at that age)!

Anyway.....enough rambling about the old days....but sure do wish I could again have the same experiences, alas condos filled the marshes, rod & gun clubs can't stay alive, whitetail hunting is getting very dangerous around here with what we used to call "too many city hunters" back in 1962...

Anyway...some of my favorites for each task I used to be involved with. Market value? Don't really know for sure, but as the add says..."priceless to me....for all else there is MasterCard".

Ithaca Model 37, 12 ga, 30" (1962) (still have the original hangtag)

Stevens 530A, 12 ga. 28" SXS (1953)

Pedersoli, 12 ga, 30", O/U (1989)

 

[Loyaljeeper]

As I have stated before, I work for a very unique state agency where we have our on LEO's but we are licensing and permitting agency. Our office is open for buisness and a few people walk into the office each day. Upwards of 100 people a day walked in the door a day before we went online with everything. We have never had an enraged citizen in our lobby but it does come as a surprise that we haven't.

Up until two years ago we were carrying m-4s and 870s in our trunks. The idea came to only carry the m-4s and free up some room in the trunk. The shotguns then went into the office for us to use if we needed to neutralize a threat in the office. That lasted a year until they decided it was worth buying brand new 870s with tack lights and Knox stocks at $800 a piece. Not everyone got a shotgun; there were two bought for each office. The handful of agents just qualify on both.

I recently attended a firearm instructor course and they were somewhat Patrol shotgun neutral. Of the 10 agencies represented there I believe every agency still had patrol shotguns to some extent. In fact, one agency, most officers had shotguns and not m-4s. This was not a small agency either. The instructors were actually surprised everyone still had shotguns and even more surprised to hear that we bought NEW shotguns.