What has caused the increase in gun values?

[P&R Fan]

I have been a life-long (45 years) gun owner, however I just started collecting S@W revolvers about 13 years ago. Most of my modest collection was purchased from about '97 to '02. Until I started here on the forum at the end of last year I had no idea how much prices had risen. I figured out the differences in prices I paid and compared them to prices I have seen on here. Basically my collection has doubled in value in about a dozen years. What shocks me most is that some individual pieces are now worth four or fives times what I paid for them. I have always liked shotguns, with Winchester M12s being a favorite. They are highly collectible, but in the same time period their prices have only risen maybe 10-20 percent. I know the '08 elections scared a lot of gun owners, but the dreaded semi-autos the gun haters want to ban should have been the ones to see this increase in that scenario, not un-scary revolvers.
What has caused this dramatic rise in values?

 

[ditrina]

We have met the enemy..
And they are us.........................

And I am just as guilty as anybody..IMHO

 

[pharmer]

What would you rather put your money in: P&G or S&W (not the stock)? Joe

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

I certainly don't KNOW the answer to your question, but I can guess at some contributing factors. First off, the price of new revolvers has increased considerably. Second, in most respects the older revolvers are regarded more highly than new ones of the same specs. Third, the folks who are most likely to have sentimental attachment to guns of the thirties through sixties are the same folks who are arriving at a point in their lives where they have significant discretionary income. Any fool can figure out that a pinned Model 10 or 15 for $300-$500 is a better buy than a similar gun with an IL at the price of a new one. But even the price of a W&K Triple Lock or an RM is affordable for more people than ever, and the number available is not increasing.

I'm not sure about the high-end guns, but the great deal available TODAY on used S&W revolvers is not as great as it was ten years ago, but it is much better than I believe it will be ten years from now. Get 'em while they're hot!

 

[kritter]

personally I think it's because people are starting to look at revolvers for their actual work involved in makeing them, not plastic or stamped steel.

an actual machined chunk of steel.. something that took someone with some talent to make..not a "cookie cutter stamping"

it's a matter of quality.... the hand work, the polishing., the fitting, all have evolved in to a higher form of "art" which is sadly missing from the newer firearms..
just something that the newer "cost cutting" manufactures can't copy for a reasonable price.

Look at the model 12's... winchester stopped makeing them not because they became outdated, but because they cost too much to make...

the same's happening with revolvers...qualty costs...and most people wouln't pay for it...... so the older ones, built by craftsman.... just keep going up in price....

 

[diamonback68]

We have met the enemy..
And they are us.........................

Sal is right, "we create our own situations and inflation".

 

[oldman45]

I could write a book on this.

People put money in 401K, IRA or whatever. For the last 40 yrs I have been putting money in guns. It is my retirement fund and fun. When I sell, it is MY money. No taxes on it at anytime. A friend sold his entire collection of over 300 guns, purchased over 34 years when he reached social security age. His profit was over $170,000 and his investment was less than $94,000. He got over a quarter million tax free at retirement. Figure what the taxes would have been had it been a 401K .

As to the increase, it has always been there. In 1970, I bought $1210 in guns. I sold all of those in 1972 and got $2060. Each gun I buy is inventoried along with cost, acquistion date, type, serial number and then if I sell, the amount sold for, date, who bought and other things. Few retirements pay as well and I have never lost money on a gun.

The increase in price is due to political attitude of Democrats and some Republicans, the replacement value, changes in the gun (like the internal lock made older guns more desirable) and people deciding they enjoy a real gun over polymer guns. A nice S&W stainless 1911 from the 80s will sell today for about $700-800. Back then it cost less than $400. The gun in polymer sells for about half of that.

 

[loutent]

People put money in 401K, IRA or whatever. For the last 40 yrs I have been putting money in guns. It is my retirement fund and fun. When I sell, it is MY money. No taxes on it at anytime. A friend sold his entire collection of over 300 guns, purchased over 34 years when he reached social security age. His profit was over $170,000 and his investment was less than $94,000. He got over a quarter million tax free at retirement. Figure what the taxes would have been had it been a 401K .

Just a few (well intentioned) comments. Your friend must realize that social security age is about when retirement begins - I think it would be more prudent to sell over a period of years and possibly even profit more. I am not a professional investor by any means, but I think it is a mistake to put all your eggs in one basket - regardless of the eggs. Probably some of the worst (financial) decisions I ever made were because I didn't want to pay taxes. Best to diversify - that's one rule that makes sense.

 

[rags]

It's Sals fault!! Have you seen his 27's?

rags

 

[HAWKEYE10]

I think a lot of rising prices are caused by the internet. You have the auction sites where you can find the gun you want and get it now. Also I think the gun forums create interest in guns. I have read a lot of post on this forum that stated they got hooked on S&W's after finding this forum. Don

 

[NFrameFred]

Costs/prices for currently manufactured guns are high, even though there is less handwork and steel in most guns than in times past. Compared to the S&W's and Colts that I liked in my youth, the fantastic plastic of today doesn't much move me.

And has been mentioned, many folks who were 'on the fence' or who had let their interest wain over the years have been awakened again due to the political climate and the historic proclivities of the current party in power. And many of those are finding out or remembering an appreciation for the handgun.

The S&W's I could not find in my tiny little local part of the world or much less afford when I was in my mid twenties, paying for a home and raising children, are now as close as my computer screen and I have a few more bucks freed up to indulge the hobby.

I wish all you guys would go take up golf and leave all those old revolvers for just a small but obstinate few of us, but more and more seem to be vying for a shrinking pool of what is known and available. Supply and demand. That's what driving prices, simple as that. Prices will eventually stabilize again (at least until the next political upheaval) but I don't think we going to see a return to prices in general that we saw even two or three years ago. Such is life.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

A friend sold his entire collection of over 300 guns, purchased over 34 years when he reached social security age. His profit was over $170,000 and his investment was less than $94,000. He got over a quarter million tax free at retirement. Figure what the taxes would have been had it been a 401K.

Sell entire gun collection upon retirement? That retirement plan is terribly flawed.

 

[handejector]

If anyone is 30-40 years old, they should have noticed by now that a coarse economic rule of thumb is that many or most consumables, and some hard assets double in price every 10-12 years.

I have bought Target S&W's NEW, at RETAIL, for less than $100 in my life. I have bought a Chief's Special, NEW, at RETAIL, with a box of ammo, and gotten change from $100.

What has not gone up in 10 years?

 

[oldman45]

What has not gone up in 10 years?

Many things have gone down in price over the years. Microwaves, VCRs, residential homes and a few others.

 

[Muddyboot]

I think a lot of rising prices are caused by the internet. You have the auction sites where you can find the gun you want and get it now. Also I think the gun forums create interest in guns. I have read a lot of post on this forum that stated they got hooked on S&W's after finding this forum. Don

Bingo, the internet has blown the market wide open. If you have the cash and are looking for certin type of Smith & Wesson, in a very short time it will be yours. No need for gunshows or gunshops to find what you are looking for, it's now a national market.

 

[David LaPell]

Well,
I think there are a couple of reasons. I also think it goes by locations. Here where I live, you can't buy and sell guns at all. The dealers have had a hard time selling off their stock of guns, ammo, etc. I know one shop that has closed up, and another that hasn't sold any guns in a month. This area was flooded with AR-15's after the 2008 election well into last summer. Now I know guys who are hurting for money or out of work entirely who cannot get rid of their AR-15's. I know a dealer who could not sell a brand new Bushmaster AR-15 for $850 at a gun show. I know, I was there. You can finally get ammunition in .223, 9mm, and .45 ACP, but now there is no .38 Special (go figure) or .357 Magnum anywhere. 12 gauge riot guns sit on the shelves for months now. So from where I can see, guns are not going up at all. I think gun shps were partly responsible, but they were only meeting a demand. For those of us that can, revolvers can still be had cheap, but in my neck of the woods, unemployment is in the neighborhood of 20% and the crime rate always keeps going up. The summer is coming, but I wonder how much more alot of the local shops can hang on. I have put off plans of getting my FFL until next year because I don't have the money, and from the looks of it, neither does anyone else. THe jobs up here are either law enforcement, the Post Office, logging, contruction, and nursing. THey are trying to close two nursing homes locally, the hospital laid off nearly 100 people, loggers have been hard hit by bad weather and one paper mill is no longer taking wood, houses are not being built, and even in law enforcement there are talks of layoffs in all branches of all the departments. Guns, well, there are alot of people selling, but no one is buying anymore. Not here.

 

[doublesharp]

"Probably some of the worst (financial) decisions I ever made were because I didn't want to pay taxes."

Much wisdom in that sentence, loutent. I've let many stock market gains evaporate because I didn't want to pay short term cap gains.

As far as guns go, I think it's a musical chairs game. I expect most that have replied to this thread have a bit of gray in their beard and were raised with guns. I don't see the kids of today caring about our old wheel guns 30-40 years from now. Of course there are exceptions but not enough to keep the prices high. Burg will be buying Reg Mags cheaper in 40 years than he was 20 yrs ago. Since he got that new hard drive he's probably not half way to the junk yard. He did cash out his RM a couple years back for whatever that's worth.

 

[handejector]

Many things have gone down in price over the years. Microwaves, VCRs, residential homes and a few others.

Sure, certain consumables go down after R&D costs are recovered, and the manufacturing is moved totally offshore, and the initial "I must have it!" craze is over. So, yes, I agree that pocket calculators, cell phones, VCR's, etc, go down to a much lower level. But then, they actually climb again with inflation. Once they bottom out, they have to go up again, merely because the cost of plastic does!

Residential homes? Come on. Sure the market fluctuates, like when the recent "bubble" burst. Any market can fluctuate with plain old supply and demand.
My parents bought the house I grew up in brand new in the 60's. It was a decent, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, brick ranch house with a full basement. It cost $14,500. Point me toward a new house for less than that amount, please.
I have bought new cars off the showroom floor for less than $3000. Got any of those?

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Depends on the product. Consumer electronics prices have generally trended down over the years while delivering an improved product. Firearms prices have trended up while generally delivering a less quality product.

 

[oldman45]

Sure, certain consumables go down after R&D costs are recovered, and the manufacturing is moved totally offshore, and the initial "I must have it!" craze is over. So, yes, I agree that pocket calculators, cell phones, VCR's, etc, go down to a much lower level. But then, they actually climb again with inflation. Once they bottom out, they have to go up again, merely because the cost of plastic does!

Residential homes? Come on. Sure the market fluctuates, like when the recent "bubble" burst. Any market can fluctuate with plain old supply and demand.
My parents bought the house I grew up in brand new in the 60's. It was a decent, 3 bedroom, 2 bath, brick ranch house with a full basement. It cost $14,500. Point me toward a new house for less than that amount, please.
I have bought new cars off the showroom floor for less than $3000. Got any of those?

Lee, you went back 50 yrs on the house. My house is 15 yrs old. Ten yrs ago it was valued at $377,850. In November of last yr it was valued at $190,000. Thankfully I owe a lot less than that on it.

There are some cars that are basically cheaper than 10 yrs ago. Not many but some. A new Chevy Impala now sells for less than they did back in 2004 but you get a lot more plastic car than you did back then.

But the labor and materials to build a nice stainless steel gun have gone up and the old ones are worth a lot more than they cost originally.