what is the real story on the 686

[Gunhacker]

I just don't get it... how in the world does Jerry Miculek manage to put up with his inferior MIM equipped S&W revolvers all of these years and yet still do the things that he does while shooting them DA?

A miracle I tell you... or the devils work

To the OP's question... I have owned a 686 no-dash, a -1 and -3... they've all worked fine for me, but I do have a preference for the -3... only because of it's 2.5 inch barrel.

 

[kbm6893]

I just don't get it... how in the world does Jerry Miculek manage to put up with his inferior MIM equipped S&W revolvers all of these years and yet still do the things that he does while shooting them DA?

A miracle I tell you... or the devils work

To the OP's question... I have owned a 686 no-dash, a -1 and -3... they've all worked fine for me, but I do have a preference for the -3... only because of it's 2.5 inch barrel.

Jerry's revolvers are hardly factory stock, and I am sure any issues that might come up are sent to the head of the line at the performance center. And since Jerry is paid big money by S&w, he sure isn't going to publicly state any issues he might have had with one.

As I said, I don't think the newer revolvers are junk. I just prefer the classic looks of the older ones. And I seem to remember a thread that had a pic of Jerry shooting his revolver. A close up of the gun clearly showed a plug installed in the keyhole.

 

[Rhetorician]

Rhetorician Question?

If you think that things like MIM components and ECM rifling have "cheapened" the guns, you are only half right. It HAS made them cheaper to produce. Your problem is that you seem to equate the use of new, more efficient technologies with cheapness, rather than improvement.

MIM components are more dimensionally stable, more precise and have smoother contact surfaces. ECM rifling, again, is more precise and, at one time, concerned the ATF because they thought it was so smooth and consistent you wouldn't be able to forensically differentiate one gun from another.



Pizza Bob

Pizza Bob,

For those of us who are not in the know, can you explain "MIM" and "ECM?"

Thanks,

rd

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

So if the hammer on my revolvers has the little pointy thing on it, it's not MIM and I don't have to worry about all this-right??
Also all my MIM revolvers are J frames-so I'm good to go on them right??

 

[ankona]

Cajunlawyer you have nothing to worrry about irregardless of whether your revos are of all forged components or have some MIM components. No need to fret over the ridiculous ranting of one misguided individual no matter how articulate those rants may be. Quite frankly he has run himself around in a circle trying to dig himself out of the hole that continues to be dug.
rd do a google search on MIM & ECM rifling and you can gather all the info you need.

 

[Pizza Bob]

Pizza Bob,

For those of us who are not in the know, can you explain "MIM" and "ECM?"

Thanks,

rd

MIM is Metal Injection Molding
ECM is Electro-Chemical Machining

You can Google either term for a complete explanation.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[Gunhacker]

Jerry's revolvers are hardly factory stock, and I am sure any issues that might come up are sent to the head of the line at the performance center. And since Jerry is paid big money by S&w, he sure isn't going to publicly state any issues he might have had with one.

As I said, I don't think the newer revolvers are junk. I just prefer the classic looks of the older ones. And I seem to remember a thread that had a pic of Jerry shooting his revolver. A close up of the gun clearly showed a plug installed in the keyhole.

Hardly stock, true enough there... but my point was not that they are "box stock", but that they do have MIM parts, which he is seems to be doing fine with and they seem to be standing up to the rigors of competition. Plugging the IL (Clinton hole) is all together another issue/topic.

In his "Trigger Job" DVD, he talks about MIM and also his philosophy/methodology of tuning a revolver for competition.

It is mostly a bunch of small tweaks that combine together to make his revolvers "fast" and to ensure reliable ignition of his "tuned" handloads.

I'm with you... I don't care for the looks on many of the contemporary guns, especially Performance Center revolvers... I only have 2 of the "newer generation" revolvers, but not due to MIM.

It's an interesting dichotomy that exists when it comes to S&W revolvers and 3rd Gen pistols... people are constantly seeking 3rd Gen pistols out, praising them for their merits of reliability and accuracy... and from what I see in the Semi-auto pistol forum, there seems to be no adamant dislikes of MIM other than they are black (instead of flashed chrome) and some don't like the contrast with the SS frames/slides, but on revolvers it's an almost instant/visceral MIM = ICK!!

 

[BAM-BAM]

It's an interesting dichotomy that exists when it comes to S&W revolvers and 3rd Gen pistols... people are constantly seeking 3rd Gen pistols out, praising them for their merits of reliability and accuracy... and from what I see in the Semi-auto pistol forum, there seems to be no adamant dislikes of MIM other than they are black (instead of flashed chrome) and some don't like the contrast with the SS frames/slides, but on revolvers it's an almost instant/visceral MIM = ICK!!

My newest 3rd Gen pistol a DPA5906 dates to 1997..........and IIRC my only revolver with without a firing pin on the hammer is my 60-10....... so I think I'm safe and can sleep at night..............

Hey Cajun.......want to go get a drink? This thread has made me........want to go read some judicial opinions to unwind

Come on ......... It's 5 o'clock somewhere!!!!!

Meet you halfway........ Key West OK with you??????

 

[JohnAC]

2 pages and not one photo. This place is slipping!

686-3

 

[Warren Sear]

Another photo:

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Cajunlawyer you have nothing to worrry about irregardless of whether your revos are of all forged components or have some MIM components. No need to fret over the ridiculous ranting of one misguided individual no matter how articulate those rants may be. Quite frankly he has run himself around in a circle trying to dig himself out of the hole that continues to be dug.
rd do a google search on MIM & ECM rifling and you can gather all the info you need.

I know that!!! I thought "little pointy thing" would have been a tip off

 

[S&W SS Revolvers]

WOW! This thread is a can of worms...

All I can say is I have a 686-3 6" purchased new 02/1993 (pure luck as a 1st purchase S&W).

BTW...It's not for sale because it is my baby and it is a ROCK STAR!!!

Have a GREAT DAY!

 

[ankona]

No need for video. See page 206 of the S&W Revolvers a shop manual new expanded 5th edition. By jerry Kuhnhausen. I found a reference to the defect or whatever you guys don't want to call it in the description of figure 238 regards cylinder stop drop early timing. Fact is Smith and Wesson MIM revolvers are mechanical abominations as discussed in Kuhnhausen's book and I as a long time revolver smith experience first hand when trying to make them mechanically correct. Otherwise they are safe queens or range or hunting toys whatever. In one NIB PC 627 I had to use four shims from power custom to true the MIM hammer and replace the MIM trigger and shim it to fit properly. This does not include the work required to fit and re-time all the MIM parts which took hours, something Smith and Wesson no longer seems to do as I find no evidence of hand fitting the internals except on the cylinder stop. I have to agree with jerry Kuhnhausen that once a revolver smith re-works these MIM S&W revolvers they should not be called S&W anymore. Instead he calls them "Powersmiths", in keeping with the early tradition of calling custom S&W revolvers with Colt Python barrels "Smithons" and K-snakes.

VR

Larry Wood

So now you are a long time gun smith? Any references? Apparently the video is out of the question?

 

[Glynngaddy]

Ooo Booy !!! Someone stayed in a Holiday Inn Express

 

[Warren Sear]

PP, don't make me get out that can of Troll Spray again!

 

[one eye joe]

I got a -1. It apparently doesn't need the 'M' upgrade. I find it perfect in every way except the 6" barrel IS nose heavy. The trigger is stupendous. I'd say any gun before 1997 is good. -3 and - 4 seem to be tops. I don't mind the balance, but if I had any reason to have the gun besides the target range I'd get a shorter barrel. Which is one reason shorter barrels are a premium.

ACTUALLY, rwsmith, THE 686-1 IS INDEED SUBJECT TO THE SAME RECALL AS THE NO-DASH 686…..

I HAVE A 2 1/2" AND 8 3/8" NO-DASH. THE 2 1/2" IS A CCW, SO I SENT IT IN FOR THE M STAMP, AND HAD A 7 SHOT CYLINDER FITTED, WHILE IT WAS THERE. THE LONG ONE IS A RANGE AND HUNTING REVOLVER, WHICH IS FLAWLESS IN FUNCTION, SO I NEVER SENT IT IN. I ALSO HAVE A 686+ MOUNTAIN GUN, WHICH IS EITHER A -3 OR A -4. ITS IN THE SAFE, AND ITS PAST MIDNIGHT. I'M JUST TOO LAZY TO GO DOWNSTAIRS AND LOOK. IN ANY EVENT, ALL THREE OF THEM ARE FANTASTIC REVOLVERS. IMHO, ANY 686, FROM A NO-DASH TO A -4, AND EITHER A 6 SHOT OR A 7 SHOT, WILL BE A GREAT SHOOTER THAT IS SURE TO PLEASE…..

BELOW IS A PIC OF MY 2 1/2" NO-DASH MODEL, CONVERTED TO A 7 SHOOTER BY S&W…..

 

[ankona]

PP, don't make me get out that can of Troll Spray again!

Unfortuneately I fear it is actually worse.
Wild mood swings: Read the recent posts, he's way up here.
Grandiose Delusions: Self explanatory.
Most likely off his meds.

 

[Blackbarry]

Pizza Bob,

For those of us who are not in the know, can you explain "MIM" and "ECM?"

Thanks,

rd

MIM = Metal Injection Molding

ECM = Electro-Chemical Machining

Go to Wikipedia and read the intricate explanations. Too much for a blog post. Industry moving to these technologies to improve production quality/consistency and reduce wear/tear costs on machining cost and still produce a quality result. Not all progress is a step back to sacrifice quality for cost reduction.

 

[Pizza Bob]

Using the snub I shoot the circle out of the 9 at 25 yards and then I shoot that hole double action.

My fastest double action time to date is eight tenths of a second for eight rounds at 25 yards all in the ten ring.

All the 357mag revolvers shown here plus one more snub are capable of precision rifle accuracy out to 100 yards.

I wasn't going to post in this thread again - didn't want to encourage him. Apparently, if you ignore him, his claims just become more grandiose in a sad bid for attention. The three quoted passages are so ludicrous that they put the BS meter off the scale. I guess whatever his "fix" does, it also imbues the guns with mystical powers that instantly turns the shooter into one of Miculek / McGivern abilities.

This is absolutely my last post in this thread, regardless of what vitriol or pap he feels it necessary to respond with, but I leave you with this...

Adios,

Pizza Bob

 

[RubenZ]

That guy lost all credibility when he said colt series 80's were not reliable for self defense.