Ben_hutcherson
Member
I think there should be a 3 day waiting period on prop rods.
Outlaw prop rods and only outlaws will have prop rods
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What is with sticking objects inside the trigger gaurd?
- Thread starter Will Carry
- Start date
Outlaw prop rods and only outlaws will have prop rods
jeffsmith
Member
"Methinks he dost protest too much"
I could understand making a big deal over calling them "kickstands". That would be so wrong. 
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deadin
US Veteran
If you are going to take the "Four Rules" as a literal truth, you need to avoid all guns as the first two are, literally, impossible to obey.
!. "A gun is always loaded". This means, literally' a gun is never empty, therfor never safe.
2. "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy." Good luck with this one.... I have a whole lot of guns in my safe (which, according to rule #1, are loaded) I know I'm sure not "willing" to destroy my safe, so what am I to do, bury all of them muzzle down under the house?
Due to the literal conundrum of rules 1 & 2, there is no need for rules 3 & 4 as you will never get that far.....
All that needs to be done to make these rules completely understandable, even to a literalist, is add "until proven empty to your satisfaction" to rule #1.
Rule #2 Add "of a loaded gun" between "muzzle" and "cover". But even this is going to be nearly impossible to obey as the muzzle, loaded or not, always points at something that you probably would prefer not destroying......
I know this all seems silly, but the "4 Rules", while a good guideline were never meant to be taken quite so literally.
!. "A gun is always loaded". This means, literally' a gun is never empty, therfor never safe.
2. "Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy." Good luck with this one.... I have a whole lot of guns in my safe (which, according to rule #1, are loaded) I know I'm sure not "willing" to destroy my safe, so what am I to do, bury all of them muzzle down under the house?
Due to the literal conundrum of rules 1 & 2, there is no need for rules 3 & 4 as you will never get that far.....
All that needs to be done to make these rules completely understandable, even to a literalist, is add "until proven empty to your satisfaction" to rule #1.
Rule #2 Add "of a loaded gun" between "muzzle" and "cover". But even this is going to be nearly impossible to obey as the muzzle, loaded or not, always points at something that you probably would prefer not destroying......
I know this all seems silly, but the "4 Rules", while a good guideline were never meant to be taken quite so literally.
I think there should be a 3 day waiting period on prop rods.
That would be after you figure out what caliber your prop rod is.
You could sum up your entire post with two words. COMMON SENSE.
Oh wait.............Never mind.
I'm normally a "no frills" kind of picture guy:
But just in honor of this thread:
Yes, most of us understand good trigger discipline, and in my younger days I was a big Jeff Coper fan:
RULE 1: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE 2: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
However, most of us also understand that it's more than just blindly following rules and at age 50 I also recognize the value of common sense and critical thinking.
So just for the hell of it, let's consider Jeff's four rules in the above picture.
In this case, I've confirmed the weapon is unloaded but I am still treating it like it was loaded, and it's not a Rule 1 violation.
In this case the weapon is still pointed in a safe direction, satisfying Rule 2.
As such it really doesn't matter if something is in the trigger guard as if the trigger gets pulled the sights are in fact "on the intended target", but in this case the "intended target" is just "a safe direction" and thus it is not a Rule 3 violation).
In fact, you could argue that propped up and angled down where a bullet would pass through the table, through the floor and into the ground under the house is safer than flat on the table where it could exit the structure and tag a neighbor.
I'm also still sure of the "target" and what's beyond it so there is no Rule 4 violation.
The only difference is that the intent in using the firearm in this case is to take a photo, rather than to engage a target on the range. Both are appropriate uses, and provided the rules are followed both are safe activities.
But just in honor of this thread:
Yes, most of us understand good trigger discipline, and in my younger days I was a big Jeff Coper fan:
Jeff Cooper's Rules of Gun Safety
RULE 1: ALL GUNS ARE ALWAYS LOADED
RULE 2: NEVER LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER UNTIL YOUR SIGHTS ARE ON THE TARGET
RULE 4: BE SURE OF YOUR TARGET
However, most of us also understand that it's more than just blindly following rules and at age 50 I also recognize the value of common sense and critical thinking.
So just for the hell of it, let's consider Jeff's four rules in the above picture.
In this case, I've confirmed the weapon is unloaded but I am still treating it like it was loaded, and it's not a Rule 1 violation.
In this case the weapon is still pointed in a safe direction, satisfying Rule 2.
As such it really doesn't matter if something is in the trigger guard as if the trigger gets pulled the sights are in fact "on the intended target", but in this case the "intended target" is just "a safe direction" and thus it is not a Rule 3 violation).
In fact, you could argue that propped up and angled down where a bullet would pass through the table, through the floor and into the ground under the house is safer than flat on the table where it could exit the structure and tag a neighbor.
I'm also still sure of the "target" and what's beyond it so there is no Rule 4 violation.
The only difference is that the intent in using the firearm in this case is to take a photo, rather than to engage a target on the range. Both are appropriate uses, and provided the rules are followed both are safe activities.
Longhorn1986
Member
Last edited:
Faulkner
Member
I can't believe I posted in this thread . . . twice. 
As noted above the OP seems to be referencing Jeff Cooper's four rules of gun safety, not the NRA safety rules.
The NRA back in the day had 12 rules, and they still do but they've emphasized just 3 of them in recognition of the need to "keep it simple" for people to apply them. They now list the rest as rules for using or storing a gun.
As you point out, however, Jeff's rules make cleaning somewhat problematic if you over apply his four rules with religious zeal. From all reports Jeff Cooper was big on common sense so I don't think he intended it that way.
Why do people photograph their handgun with some object stuck inside the trigger guard? Like the numb skull who took the picture below. DON'T DO IT! Some moron is going think it's a good idea and shoot himself or someone else trying to take a picture. There is no reason to stick anything inside the trigger guard accept your bugger hook when you have met the four requirements for gun safety. I feel much better now getting that off my chest.
Really late to this discussion, but
Jeff Cooper's Revised Rules of Gun Safety
RULE 1: MOST GUNS ARE USUALLY LOADED
RULE 2: YOU CAN SOMETIMES LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER, BUT GO AHEAD AND INSERT OTHER STUFF IN THE TRIGGER GUARD
RULE 4: BE VAGUELY AWARE OF A TARGET SOMEWHERE OUT THERE
RULE 1: MOST GUNS ARE USUALLY LOADED
RULE 2: YOU CAN SOMETIMES LET THE MUZZLE COVER ANYTHING YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO DESTROY
RULE 3: KEEP YOUR FINGER OFF THE TRIGGER, BUT GO AHEAD AND INSERT OTHER STUFF IN THE TRIGGER GUARD
RULE 4: BE VAGUELY AWARE OF A TARGET SOMEWHERE OUT THERE
I can't believe I posted in this thread . . . twice.
Recognizing you have a problem is the first step.
RobertJ.
Member
susieqz
Absent Comrade
great fun, guys.
you know, sometimes i wonder if there shouldn't be a rule against keeping unloaded guns around.
that leads to accidents.
unless they are disassembled, all my guns are loaded all the time.
thus, there is no possibility of making a mistake.
if i press the trigger n maybe take off a safety, the gun is gonna fire.
no possibility of confusion, around here.
you know, sometimes i wonder if there shouldn't be a rule against keeping unloaded guns around.
that leads to accidents.
unless they are disassembled, all my guns are loaded all the time.
thus, there is no possibility of making a mistake.
if i press the trigger n maybe take off a safety, the gun is gonna fire.
no possibility of confusion, around here.
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Lee in Quartzsite
Member
How 'bout them Cubbies!!!
I think a bigger issue is teaching people who carry weapons on a daily basis to safely handle them at all times.
I had a man who was angry at someone and I was in between them, not by choice, when a glock fall's out of one of the guys pants right at my feet. Nothing happened, thankfully, and I didn't know the guy who dropped the gun. He very quickly picked it up as I watched him fumble with it. This was too close to home for me. I got the 2 "men" separated and everyone went their separate ways.
I will never forget someone dropped a glock at my feet in anger towards someone else. I'm well aware there are people who really can't handle weapons in public. That's what scares me the most.
Posing a gun like that is low on my list of "issues".
I had a man who was angry at someone and I was in between them, not by choice, when a glock fall's out of one of the guys pants right at my feet. Nothing happened, thankfully, and I didn't know the guy who dropped the gun. He very quickly picked it up as I watched him fumble with it. This was too close to home for me. I got the 2 "men" separated and everyone went their separate ways.
I will never forget someone dropped a glock at my feet in anger towards someone else. I'm well aware there are people who really can't handle weapons in public. That's what scares me the most.
Posing a gun like that is low on my list of "issues".
ChattanoogaPhil
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If the forum had a Safety discussion section this thread could be a sticky.
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Oh well
I guess this obsoletes all my prop rods.... Now that they are useless and (hopefully) collectible, anybody want to buy my old ones?
Note, I have more examples of the "pre-Prop rods" and would be willing to sell them for only $100 each. (oops. maybe the wrong forum - sorry - Hey Moderator, please move this to the right forum I need to get mine sold before someone floods the market)
I guess this obsoletes all my prop rods.... Now that they are useless and (hopefully) collectible, anybody want to buy my old ones?
Note, I have more examples of the "pre-Prop rods" and would be willing to sell them for only $100 each. (oops. maybe the wrong forum - sorry - Hey Moderator, please move this to the right forum I need to get mine sold before someone floods the market)
