What powder is closest in all aspects to HP38/Win231?

I just ran a comparison between Hodgdon HP38 and Accurate #2 on QuickLOAD using a 124gr FMJ bullet in the 9mm Luger. Max loads were only .1gr apart, and velocities were within 10 fps. Plus both are spherical powders that measure very well. I've used Accurate #2 for years now, and it's performance is outstanding. YMMV.

(Additional Info: I just checked Ramshot Zip with QuickLOAD, and it's performance is computed to be almost exactly the same as Accurate #2.)

Thanks! Have you used it or run it through the puter for other calibers?

Edit:

I just downloaded the Accurate Powders load data 'Manual" and with exception of 357 and 44 mag, #2 will load anything else I shoot. So it looks like a prime candidate.
 
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Absolutely, without question, Ramshot ZIP. It's DARN near a load-for-load replacement for W231 in my loads. In fact, I'm going to test a pound of it, and if it is less smokey with cast bullet loads, I may switch to it anyway, but I've got a LOT of 231/HP38 to get rid of first...

WST is a very close contender, but it's not as close of a one-for-one load-by-load replacement for 231 as ZIP is. But, WST is a good powder, clean and round for easy metering.
I totally agree W231/HP-38 and Zip are almost, if not exactly the same powders. Just a note, W231, HP-38 and Zip are all ball powders manufactured in the same St. Marks plant. Hmmmmm...
 
Seems Ramshot and Accurate are one and the same.

Same PO Box and address. Perhaps duplicate products like HP38 and W231 etc.

One of these days I need to drive across the State to the St Marks plant.
 
If you are thinking of an 8 pound keg, why not just order some from Powder Valley, Bruno's, Natchez shooter supply etc.? Then, you could have what you want. Usually you can get 8 pounds from one of the suppliers cheap enough that it will make up for the $25.00 haz shipping fee.
 
If you are thinking of an 8 pound keg, why not just order some from Powder Valley, Bruno's, Natchez shooter supply etc.? Then, you could have what you want. Usually you can get 8 pounds from one of the suppliers cheap enough that it will make up for the $25.00 haz shipping fee.

They don't have it in stock.
 
OCD, if you can get your hands on an Accurate #2 Reloading Manual, it has pressure-tested data for .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum using Accurate #2. I don't know why it's omitted from the online data.

In fact, one of my favorite .44 Magnum loads (when I still had a .44 Magnum...) was a Hornady 180gr HP/XTP at 1200 fps using about 10 gr of Accurate #2. This is the starting load for this bullet in the Accurate Reloading Manual #2, and duplicates the performance of an old CorBon self-defense load in .44 Magnum using the exact same bullet. Accurate, clean, and follow-up shots were easy.

Added: AFAIK, Western Powders produces Ramshot and recently bought Accurate.
 
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OCD, if you can get your hands on an Accurate #2 Reloading Manual, it has pressure-tested data for .357 Magnum and .44 Magnum using Accurate #2. I don't know why it's omitted from the online data.

In fact, one of my favorite .44 Magnum loads (when I still had a .44 Magnum...) was a Hornady 180gr HP/XTP at 1200 fps using about 10 gr of Accurate #2. This is the starting load for this bullet in the Accurate Reloading Manual #2, and duplicates the performance of an old CorBon self-defense load in .44 Magnum using the exact same bullet. Accurate, clean, and follow-up shots were easy.

Added: AFAIK, Western Powders produces Ramshot and recently bought Accurate.

Thanks, I downloaded it. Yes, the companies are one and the same.
 
Seems Ramshot and Accurate are one and the same.

Same PO Box and address. Perhaps duplicate products like HP38 and W231 etc.

One of these days I need to drive across the State to the St Marks plant.
Both companies are owned by Western Powders so yes, they are the same company now...
 
Seems Ramshot and Accurate are one and the same.

Same PO Box and address. Perhaps duplicate products like HP38 and W231 etc.

One of these days I need to drive across the State to the St Marks plant.

Both companies are owned by Western Powders so yes, they are the same company now...

There is a long convaluted story here, but the bottom line is that Accurate started in TN as an importer and re-labeller of foreign powders. Originally, they sourced them from Isreal (whose powder plant was set up by Olin way back when; the same Olin which set up the St. Mark's Powder plant -- before it was sold to General Dynamics -- so hence why AA#2 is so similar to W231), but Accurate would shop around to other places to get the bulk powders cheaper. Sometimes they got them direct from St. Marks, and before they sold out to Western Powders, they were getting a bunch of their powders from Czech Republic.

One of my biggest disappointments when Western bought out Accurate and took over their product line is that they ended the big reloading manual, and worse yet, ended the on-line edition of the big manual. Now, all there is on line or from Western is an 8-page flyer. Now, some of the best powder companies (including Accurate) started out with flyers for their load data, but I see what Western did as a backwards step. I understand the liability situation, but Western has a great ballistics lab, and they could have ran the loads in the manual in a year or so and put out a third edition with their own name on it, IMO...

Anyway, to clarify a couple things:

W231/HP38/SMP231 are the same powder made by St. Marks in Florida.

Titegroup's qualities of both density and burn rate make it no where near a one-for-one replacement for 231. It may be a "cousin" in that it's formulation, constituent parts, etc. are very similar, but it behaves differently than 231. I find it much more spikey in pressure, that it's not that accurate (ironic considering it's name), and it's max performance falls short of 231 (in terms of velocity). It's definitely a low-velocity target powder that reaches it's goals of insensitivity to positioning of low-doses of powder, but it's other (poor) qualities don't work for me. If I was a Bullseye powder fan, I might replace Bullseye with it, but I find them to much more similar in applications to each other, than Titegroup to 231.

AA#2 and Ramshot ZIP do not appear to be the same powder, but that is still open to debate, as I'm not 100% informed of the sourcing of both of them, now that Western owns both Ramshot and Accurate. They are very similar, as noted, and they are also very similar to 231. In fact, AA#2 is more of a cousin to 231 than Titegroup, as their application spectrum and performance are nearly identical.

HTH
 
Thanks for that background. Interesting stuff. As I mentioned. one of these days I am going to take a day trip and drive over across the State to St Marks and see if I can gather some info or maybe get a tour. I'll call first just to be sure.:) I like it over on that coast anyway.
 
Over here we tend to have powder availability problems now & again.

I mainly load .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .45 Colt, .45 ACP and occasionally light .357 Mag loads.
My favorite powder used to be W-231, as I could load all those calibers with it.

Now, I use VihtaVuori N-320 since it's more readily available & I've found that it is just as versatile in use as W-231 and pretty close to it in application/burn rate.
 
Over here we tend to have powder availability problems now & again.

I mainly load .38 Spl, .44 Spl, .45 Colt, .45 ACP and occasionally light .357 Mag loads.
My favorite powder used to be W-231, as I could load all those calibers with it.

Now, I use VihtaVuori N-320 since it's more readily available & I've found that it is just as versatile in use as W-231 and pretty close to it in application/burn rate.

Always nice to hear from folks in different Countries. We have availability problems as well. I almost never see VihtaVouri around here and if there is any, it is usually more expensive.

Please send us some of your delicious food:D
 

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