What rifle should I get next?

[Arik]

I find the ammo all over the place online. SGAMMO, AIM Surplus, Palmetto State Armory.

Don't get too sucked into the scopes especially on SKS. There is no way to actually scope one. Most methods are half *** at best. Any scope mounted to the top cover don't hold zero and when you take the cover off to clean you will have to re sight the scope. The only country that scoped some SKS with limited success were the Yugoslavs. They attached a rail to the side of the receiver, like a Mosin sniper. There was a lot of aftermarket stuff made for SKS back in the day, most didn't work properly.

I'm a huge fan of Mosins but I wouldn't recommend one for that SHTF. You'll know why once you get one. Too big, too long, too slow, lacks accuracy for reasons I mentioned in my 1st post. But more importantly they have what's called a sticky bolt. Some worse than others but almost all have it. After about 5 rounds you need to hit the bolt with a 2x4 to open it. In really bad ones you have to wait till it cools off. The reason is a combination of firing pin sticking out a little bit too far, the powder type and the 60 years of caked on cosmoline. It never completely goes away.

Is that $89 dollars in store or online? If it's online you can add another $15 - $20 more for shipping.

Do you NEED a case right now? How difficult is it to save another $300 to add to the $360 you were going to spend on the Sks?

 

[wbraswell]

For a commercial bolt action, I would look long and hard at Savage. Accuracy should matter, and Savage usually delivers.

 

[CatSnipah]

Surplus Russian 762x54r for the Mosin is still relatively cheap and available right now as well.

 

[CatSnipah]

I'm a huge fan of Mosins but I wouldn't recommend one for that SHTF. You'll know why once you get one. Too big, too long, too slow, lacks accuracy for reasons I mentioned in my 1st post. But more importantly they have what's called a sticky bolt. Some worse than others but almost all have it. After about 5 rounds you need to hit the bolt with a 2x4 to open it. In really bad ones you have to wait till it cools off. The reason is a combination of firing pin sticking out a little bit too far, the powder type and the 60 years of caked on cosmoline. It never completely goes away.

Hrm. I appreciate your commentary, but I can definitively state from personal experience that you can remedy the sticky bolt situation with bore cleaner, a power drill with a bore mop attached and patience. Neither of my Mosins experience sticky bolt issues any longer.

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Multi-quotes are easy. Instead of hitting the quote button just cut and paste and highlight and then hit the quote on your own message.

Here's one:

Hrm. I appreciate your commentary, but I can definitively state from personal experience that you can remedy the sticky bolt situation with bore cleaner, a power drill with a bore mop attached and patience. Neither of my Mosins experience sticky bolt issues any longer.

Here's another:

Surplus Russian 762x54r for the Mosin is still relatively cheap and available right now as well.

Very easy.

Now on to your topic....

***GRJ***

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Your SHTF rifle in the 21st century ought to not be a bolt action rifle. Actually, I'd have said that last century, too. You cannot go wrong with a Ruger American but it is limited in the number of rounds it holds and limited in the speed with which you can actually fire them accurately. Mil-surp rifles will sometimes have higher capacity but you're still limited in your speed of fire (slow, accurate fire being the goal of military armorers in the past). They are cool, however, and if you get 1000 rounds of ammunition then you can engage in some serious practice with one.

You didn't say what your experience level is but you'll get plenty of experience if you buy enough ammunition.

With respect to rifles only, I recently disposed of all of my mil-surp rifles, Czech 98 Mauser (8mm), Spanish 7mm Mauser, Swedish 1896 Mauser (6.5 x 55), hmmmm....seems like there were a few more but I cannot recall offhand. My point is, in light of my useful collection of high quality hunting rifles, lever guns, and semi-autos, these were cool rifles that I thought that people who collect them should have them. I had no intention of shooting them; they're useless to me at that point. I never had ammo for them and would never shoot them - well, no, I had a case of 8mm for the Mauser but I let that go with the rifle - let someone who cared have fun with it.

I replaced them with several useful tools that fit what I need and like, and will use, including SHTF requirements.

My point is that the only rifle that I think will work for you if you don't want a lever rifle (I probably have a dozen of them, including one .44 caliber kept loaded for that special purpose you're referring to) for hunting or defensive purposes then you're probably best served by an SKS. Whatever your learning curve is, that rifle will work for plinking, hunting, and when the whirling blades hit the offal (and fit your budget, hopefully).

Just my 2 cents....

***GRJ***

 

[Ματθιας]

A $160 garden variety Mosin 91/30 may or may not be accurate. And you may have to experiment which ammo it shoots best and stockpile it. It might be light ball, or heavy ball. It might be Czech, Russian, Bulgarian, ect,. It may have been sighted with it's bayonet on. It's not going to shoot to its sights. The point is, you're not going to know until you actually try to put it on paper.

If you're going to get one, check the crown. It might be counterbored.

That's why I recommend getting a Finn Mosin especially the M39. All things being equal, the Finns reworked them with accuracy in mind.

BTW, as a general rule, consider all Comm-block surplus ammo corrosive and clean accordingly. Cleaning for corrosive ammo IS not a big deal as long as it's done ASAP after shooting.

 

[Waywatcher]

I'm trying to decide what rifle I want next. I already own a handgun and a .22lr rifle. Next thing I want is a larger caliber rifle and I'm torn between getting something bolt action in .308 or similar, or a semi auto in .223, 7.62, 5.45, ect.. Budget is very very tight (ARs and similarly priced bolt actions are out of the question) so I'm thinking Mosin Nagant or SKS. Open to other budget friendly suggestions as well. Would be nice to have something that makes a good SHTF rifle just incase... But mainly, if you could only buy one, would you buy bolt action or semi auto first?

It's a hard decision. I have two rifles; a scoped .270 bolt and an iron-sighted 5.56 semi. If I was starting from scratch, I think I would get the scoped bolt action .270 first.

Reasons:
It's more accurate
It's more powerful
It has better ammo availability (during buying frenzies)
It's more satisfying to handload for
It's more aesthetically pleasing

To my mind, the ultimate reason for a rifle is accuracy and power at a distance. It is "the queen of personal weapons," as Jeff Cooper succinctly put. A scoped bolt action rifle has better power, range, and accuracy than any other personal weapon, so that would be my first choice.

 

[eyegots2no]

Like said b4---lever action is good idea.

The Marlins 336 style CAN still be had at low prices.
you can get 44 mag or 30-30----I think you would like 30-30
They are not bad as an assault rifle
You can put a scope on them.

I've seen 336's that shot nickel groups.

30-30 ammo is as cheap as it gets.

There will be parts available forever.

They're maybe some merit is possessing a "traditional" arm .


Personally, I can't stand 3rd world anything!!!

Except cute Asian girls.

 

[JJEH]

The bang for the buck value of a Mosin is hard to beat. So as far as bolt action rifles go, I'd say $250. Don't know if anything else besides the Mosin falls into that budget that also has affordable and readily available ammo. For an SKS or other semi auto up to $400.

For around $300 you can look into the Mossberg 100 ATR (.270, .30-06, .243, .308, 7mm) or - if you like surplus - Mauser M48 in 8mm.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Over your budget..... but I would recommend saving up for a few more months and get............

In Semi; a S&W M&P15 Sport

For a bolt gun; I'd recommend the CZ 527 carbine in .223 ,
Mini-Mauser action, sized for the .223 round.
Also American or Mannlicher stocks are available.
5 round detachable magazines and

most are moa out of the box.

Buying one good rifle is better than 2 or 3 mediocre guns.

 

[Cal44]

I have a 44 magnum lever action Marlin.

It holds 10 rounds of 44 mag or 44 special.

Shoots accurately enough for hunting within the range reasonable for 44 mag.

I'm not really worried about SHTF scenarios, but if you are, then remember that people have been successfully defending their homes and families with pistol caliber lever actions for over 100 years.

One nice feature of Marlins (and most other brands) is you can load rounds into the loading port as you shoot to keep the rifle topped off -- without taking the rifle out of action when you reload.

Pretty much the same comments hold for 357 and 45 colt lever actions also -- although they tend to be more expensive.

On the bolt action side, a LGS has Remington 784 rifles for sale in normal hunting calibers for less than $200. The company seems to have some kind of promotion going on with rebates.

 

[beagleye]

Best bang for the buck-

I think an interarms mark 10 zastava mauser in 30-06. I commonly see them for $300. Scope ready, cheap ammo, kill anything, absolute bomb proof, work horse, parts forever, mauser.

 

[SW01SS]

I find the ammo all over the place online. SGAMMO, AIM Surplus, Palmetto State Armory.

Don't get too sucked into the scopes especially on SKS. There is no way to actually scope one. Most methods are half *** at best. Any scope mounted to the top cover don't hold zero and when you take the cover off to clean you will have to re sight the scope. The only country that scoped some SKS with limited success were the Yugoslavs. They attached a rail to the side of the receiver, like a Mosin sniper. There was a lot of aftermarket stuff made for SKS back in the day, most didn't work properly.

I'm a huge fan of Mosins but I wouldn't recommend one for that SHTF. You'll know why once you get one. Too big, too long, too slow, lacks accuracy for reasons I mentioned in my 1st post. But more importantly they have what's called a sticky bolt. Some worse than others but almost all have it. After about 5 rounds you need to hit the bolt with a 2x4 to open it. In really bad ones you have to wait till it cools off. The reason is a combination of firing pin sticking out a little bit too far, the powder type and the 60 years of caked on cosmoline. It never completely goes away.

Is that $89 dollars in store or online? If it's online you can add another $15 - $20 more for shipping.

Do you NEED a case right now? How difficult is it to save another $300 to add to the $360 you were going to spend on the Sks?

My shooting range requires all guns to be in cases any time they are not in the firing lanes. If I get out of my car and start walking up through the parking lot towards to entrance area with a gun outside of a case they will tell me to leave. And I also would prefer to have it in a case at home. So yes I do kind of need a case right away. I COULD save another 300 dollars, and I COULD spend it on a more expensive rifle, but given other expenses, and living off a student income, and having to spend a lottt of money in the very near future for things I will need for my future career, it would not be a smart financial decision to spend that much at this time or any time in the near future.

Thanks for the tip about using a scope on an SKS. I wasn't planning to use it much anyways, but it's good to know that it wouldn't work well just incase I decided I wanted to use it. I am heavily leaning towards the SKS at this point. I understand that the Mosin is long and slow, but most any bolt action rifle is long and slow. The sticky bolt can be fixed with hardly any trouble, and accuracy is a gamble, but some CAN be very accurate. The average one should be just fine on accuracy considering I'll almost certainly never use it past 200 yards. I think I'm going to get the SKS though, just waiting to hear back from the seller.

 

[SW01SS]

Your SHTF rifle in the 21st century ought to not be a bolt action rifle. Actually, I'd have said that last century, too. You cannot go wrong with a Ruger American but it is limited in the number of rounds it holds and limited in the speed with which you can actually fire them accurately. Mil-surp rifles will sometimes have higher capacity but you're still limited in your speed of fire (slow, accurate fire being the goal of military armorers in the past). They are cool, however, and if you get 1000 rounds of ammunition then you can engage in some serious practice with one.

You didn't say what your experience level is but you'll get plenty of experience if you buy enough ammunition.

With respect to rifles only, I recently disposed of all of my mil-surp rifles, Czech 98 Mauser (8mm), Spanish 7mm Mauser, Swedish 1896 Mauser (6.5 x 55), hmmmm....seems like there were a few more but I cannot recall offhand. My point is, in light of my useful collection of high quality hunting rifles, lever guns, and semi-autos, these were cool rifles that I thought that people who collect them should have them. I had no intention of shooting them; they're useless to me at that point. I never had ammo for them and would never shoot them - well, no, I had a case of 8mm for the Mauser but I let that go with the rifle - let someone who cared have fun with it.

I replaced them with several useful tools that fit what I need and like, and will use, including SHTF requirements.

My point is that the only rifle that I think will work for you if you don't want a lever rifle (I probably have a dozen of them, including one .44 caliber kept loaded for that special purpose you're referring to) for hunting or defensive purposes then you're probably best served by an SKS. Whatever your learning curve is, that rifle will work for plinking, hunting, and when the whirling blades hit the offal (and fit your budget, hopefully).

Just my 2 cents....

***GRJ***

I'd rather have a mil surp that is in good shape that I can put 500rds down range with without brutally murdering my wallet than a higher priced gun with higher priced ammo that I can practice with maybe once a month. Even if it's more accurate I'll probably still be more proficient with the a Mosin because I'll have spent exponentially more time learning to shoot it. I agree though that the SKS may be best suited to my needs though.

It's a hard decision. I have two rifles; a scoped .270 bolt and an iron-sighted 5.56 semi. If I was starting from scratch, I think I would get the scoped bolt action .270 first.

Reasons:
It's more accurate
It's more powerful
It has better ammo availability (during buying frenzies)
It's more satisfying to handload for
It's more aesthetically pleasing

To my mind, the ultimate reason for a rifle is accuracy and power at a distance. It is "the queen of personal weapons," as Jeff Cooper succinctly put. A scoped bolt action rifle has better power, range, and accuracy than any other personal weapon, so that would be my first choice.

I feel the same way, and thats whats really making the choice difficult for me. I also feel that getting a bolt action rifle will really help me hone my shooting abilities and the slower rate of fire will make it easier to focus more on the fundamentals, which is important to me. And I won't blow through as much ammo which will help my wallet. And they may be slow but bolt guns DO certainly have their place in SHTF. But like others have said and as I said above, I'm leaning towards an SKS because I feel it is a more versatile gun.

For around $300 you can look into the Mossberg 100 ATR (.270, .30-06, .243, .308, 7mm) or - if you like surplus - Mauser M48 in 8mm.

I'm already pretty set on an SKS unless someone can change my mind, but that Mossberg looks really nice.

Best bang for the buck-

I think an interarms mark 10 zastava mauser in 30-06. I commonly see them for $300. Scope ready, cheap ammo, kill anything, absolute bomb proof, work horse, parts forever, mauser.

I searched around online for these and only found two for sale. Private sellers, both out of my state and both priced at $450.

 

[gregintenn]

I have both, and would much prefer to have a stock SKS over a Mosin Nagant, were it my only rifle.

Neither, however, would be my choice if it were to be my only rifle. My only rifle would be something along the lines of a model 70 Winchester Featherweight in 30-06.

Thank goodness we don't have to make choices like that.

Arik told you right about the scope on an SKS. The ones I've seen were mounted to the dustcover, and you can wiggle them with your hand. You can imagine what that does for accuracy.

 

[NE450No2]

Random thoughts...

I would recommend you wait another 6 months or so and get a 16" barreled Flat top AR 15. In the long run, it will be money well spent.

Take look at the AR15 prices from CDNN.

If you just cannot wait, then get a good Mosin...

 

[model70hunter]

I did not buy the Moisin when the were under $50 and dealers couldn't get rid of them.

I sort of got sleepy reading all the above, what were you going to use a long gun for? Targets?

I personally would save for 6 months and get what I really wanted. I own a Colt AR 15 match, nice. I don't think you could put enough Moise's in my F-250 Super duty to trade me out of the AR or one of the old Winchester pre-64 model 70's.

Save up, go to some gun shops or gun shows and look for a plain jane Rem 700 or a plastic stocked Savage Bolt action. Seeing them in person might make a difference.

 

[BobC357]

For around $500, you can also get a Remington Mdl 700 BDL in most common calibers. I've got three .270 Win of varying barrel lengths and they're reliable and great.

 

[alwslate]

If you're dead set on an SKS or Mosin the SKS would be a far better
choice for many reasons for your one and only rifle, although buying a
rifle with the expectation that a real SHTF scenario will develop is
probably fantasy. The SKS is a great rifle but far better in original
condition than the mess of a gun you're looking at. Find another one.
Your best bet would still be a good used commercial bolt rifle but
milsurps can be good buys if you follow a few basic rules, make sure
the gun has an excellent bore and learn what a counterbore is and
don't buy ANY rifle that has been counterbored no matter what the
seller says. Many people buy milsurps based on external condition
without even looking down the bore. I've seen 98 Mausers with worn
bores and counterbores that wouldn't keep their shots in a 3 ft square
at 25 yds. All those cheap tins of Mosin ammo contain corrosive
primed ammo. Do you want to deal with that? The best deal on an
SKS will probably be a Chinese gun sold when bayonets were not
included, you don't need one. Non corrosive SKS ammo can be bought
be the case online at good prices. Do yourself a favor and pass on that
junked up SKS and find an original one.