What year is this?

[Masterpiece]

So in summary it most likely shipped to japan in 1887 with a Buttstock Attatchment, where they then added a lanyard swivel and restamped the SN# sideways on the butt?

Cronus73,

For the most part your above quote is somewhat correct...Only thing is it may or may not have been shipped with a Shoulder Stock given most of the NM#3's shipped to Japan were pulled from Existing Inventory to fill orders for Japan...What I'm hoping for is the Letter notes it "Could" have had a Shoulder Stock added if the need arose!!

You also have to remember what I posted earlier concerning it having what I believe is the Orig. Nickel Finish...All but 4 of the Nickel NM#3 Revolvers I researched in the past that were supposedly in those two large shipments in 1887 have now been confirmed when "Lettered" as being in the Dec.29th,1894 shipment I noted previously!!

And in case you're wondering...The other 4 Nickel NM#3's I noted earlier have never been confirmed being I was unable to get the full info on them before being able to get a Confirmed Ship Date!!

I'm also very glad to hear you plan on requesting a Factory Letter for Your Revolver as I'm really hoping the Letter will come back making note the Revolver shipped as the Frame being machined for attaching a Shoulder Stock!! For now I wish you the best of luck & Guess we'll see how all this turns out in time!!

 

[Cronus73]

For sure! When i get a letter back ill be sure to post it here to keep you guys updated. Thanks so much for your help!

 

[Boulder350]

In looking at the book Mike talked about "The Japanese Choose the Smith & Wesson," in the surviving examples section on page 61, serial number 23399 it says "6 1/2-inch (165mm) barrel, no Japanese markings, lanyard ring, nickel, hard rubber grips, walnut shoulder stock with nickel finished hardware."

It looks like there was a small batch of these guns with the features the original poster has. A rare combination of features.

Here is a picture of what it would look like with the stock.

 

[Masterpiece]

In looking at the book Mike talked about "The Japanese Choose the Smith & Wesson," in the surviving examples section on page 61, serial number 23399 it says "6 1/2-inch (165mm) barrel, no Japanese markings, lanyard ring, nickel, hard rubber grips, walnut shoulder stock with nickel finished hardware.

Mark,

Thanks for noting that as that particular Revolver after all these years...Is one I still have on my "Pending a Factory Letter" List given the Booklet's (Author) Frances "Frank" Allan, Myself along with a few others having considerable interest in these...Were never able to get confirmed info as to whether or not that Revolver in correct as noted given much of Frank's Info was passed on to him by word of mouth when he was looking for data to include in His Booklet!!

Just thought I'd throw that in the mix given it's not "Confirmed" Info!! I had high hopes at one time it could be confirmed given it was noted as having a Shoulder Stock, but it's been too long now since it originally surfaced unless by some remote chance it pops up on the radar again!! In my opinion it's very unlikely after all this time although at one time I hoped it would!!

At least now we have another Japanese-Shipped Nickel NM#3 in a very close Ser. No. Range proximity missing the Shoulder Stock...Very anxious to hear what Cronus73's Letter is going to say...Definitely got my fingers crossed on this one!!

 

[Cronus73]

Hey i have another question. So with the hammer pulled back the cylinder lines up and locks solid into place without hardly any play side to side and front to back. Everything seems normal and healthy. BUT with the hammer in the DOWN position the cylinder spins freely. Like very freely. That cant be normal right? I eventually wanna take it to a gun smith and have it checked out to make sure everything is functioning as it should

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Make sure the hammer is ALL the way down (like when it is fired).
There is a "safety" notch or stop that is just slightly back from
the fired position. When in the safety notch, the cylinder is free
to rotate.

You see, the cylinder stop is controlled by the trigger. When the
trigger is back, the stop is up and locking the cylinder. When the
trigger is forward, the cylinder stop is lowered and the cylinder
is free to rotate. I'll post some pics to show hammer position and
cylinder stop.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Cronus73]

So your cylinder spins freely with the hammer down too? If i pull the trigger to the rear the stop DOES indeed come up. And if i cock the hammer back the stop also DOES come up (i guess because cocking the hammer also pulls the trigger back) but once you fire and let go of the trigger the cylinder spins freely in both directions. This is normal?

 

[Cronus73]

Also whats the difference between pic 1 and 2? I see the difference is the position of the cylinder stop but how did you achieve this? The hammer looks like its in the exact same position and you arent touching the trigger?

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


The three pics were taken without touching the trigger. If your
cylinder stop drops when you release the trigger, it sounds like
your trigger is damage. If the tip of the trigger (inside the gun)
is broken off, this will affect the position of the trigger in the fired
position. You can verify this by removing the side plate and in-
specting the trigger.

DO NOT PRY OFF THE SIDE PLATE!!! This will mar the plate.

The proper way to remove the side plate is to first, remove
the grip panels. Then the screws holding the side plate. Then,
using a soft face hammer (plastic or wood), strike the frame
of the revolver (where the grips used to be) on the same side
as the side plate.

If you don't have a hammer with plastic faces, use a screw driver.
Hold it by the shaft and strike with the plastic handle.

The side plate will walk up (using momentum) with 2 to 4 sharp
whacks (usually).


Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


I' post some pics of the hammer/trigger interface. These pics are
showing a #3 Schofield but it is very similar to the NM#3.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


Here is a pictorial essay for the procedure to remove the side plate:

(1) - Start,

(2) - Grip panels and side plate screws removed,

(3) - Plastic faced hammer and where to strike,

(4) - First Whack,

(5) - Second Whack,

Continued in next posting.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


To continue the essay:

(6) - Third Whack. Side plate is now loose,

(7) - Remove loose side plate,

(8) - Close up of hammer and trigger (Cylinder Locked). This
is the normal "at rest" position,

(9) - Safety Notch. This is just slightly back from the "at rest"
position (Cylinder free to revolve),

(10) - Full Cock (cylinder locked again).

Take a look at these pics. Notice the length and projection of
the end of the trigger. These were taken from my NM#3.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[mmaher94087]

Webb, great photos! This should be a sticky in the gunsmithing area or the antique area.

 

[Cronus73]

I think thats my issue then

My hammer might be damaged at the very bottom

 

[Cronus73]

I just made a post about it in the gunsmithing section too

 

[iby]

NM3 nickel

Masterpiece.
I saw this on a different Forum and thought you would like to see it too.

 

[BC38]

Also whats the difference between pic 1 and 2? I see the difference is the position of the cylinder stop but how did you achieve this? The hammer looks like its in the exact same position and you arent touching the trigger?

If you look REALLY close at them you can see that the hammer is cocked about 1/8" in the second picture. The hammer is in the safety notch.

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,

My hammer might be damaged at the very bottom

Your hammer has definitely been modified and the "safety" notch
has been eliminated. I can see that your trigger was repaired with
inserting a piece to replace the broken sear tip of the the trigger.
Almost needless to say this is the reason your cylinder doesn't
lock when the trigger is "at rest." The trigger pivots too much
and unlocks the cylinder.


If you look at my close-up pic of the hammer and trigger, you
will see a shelf just in front of the "safety notch" where the trigger
will normally rest. This is an additional "safety" to prevent the
hammer from contacting the primer of a cartridge if the revolver
is accidentally dropped and the hammer hits the ground. This
is part of the "rebounding hammer" feature of this model. The
hammer "at rest" is slightly back from passing through the re-
coil shield. When the revolver is fired, the hammer will fall past
the "at rest" position (because of momentum) and strike the
cartridge. Then, the hammer "rebounds" a slight amount and
comes to rest and the trigger (when released) will reside under
the shelf and block any "accidental" forward movement of the
hammer.

Most revolvers prior to this invention didn't have this feature
and would "go off" when dropped. Because of this, it became
the norm to carry a six-shooter with only 5 rounds in the cylinder
and the hammer down over an empty chamber to prevent this
kind of accident.

I have read about cowboys sitting at a table playing cards and
when they leaned their chair back, the revolver would slip out
of its holster and land on the floor and shoot the cowboy in the
arse. Most painful and embarrassing!


Cheers!
Webb

 

[wlw-19958]

Hi There,


To make it more clear, here are some pics to illustrate the trigger
and hammer relationship:

(1) - Hammer Down and Trigger Pulled. The sear tip of the trigger
is not under the shelf and the hammer is free to move forward
under momentum,

(2) - Hammer Down and Trigger "at rest" under the shelf (which
will block any accidental forward movement of the hammer),

(3) - Hammer is in the "safety notch" (which will block any
voluntary movement of the trigger),

I trust this will explain the different positions of the trigger in
relationship to the hammer.


Cheers!
Webb

 

[Cronus73]

I have no idea how this would have happened or been done to the hammer/trigger but im ganna try to either find a hammer and trigger or find a gunsmith that can fix it. Im also ganna make a new post asking if anyone has any spare parts they would sell so i can get this back in SAFE shooting condition. Thank you!