What's the best alternative to 5.56 for an AR-15?

[Bald1]

I didn't do the poll because IMHO the 5.56 is optimum for a AR-15.

But, OTOH, an AR-15 is not suitable for big game, so the question is moot.

I personally hunt deer with a single shot Encore in .308 Winchester. That's quite suitable. If I was inclined to use a bolt rifle, it would be a .30-06. But a 12 ga. with a rifled barrel will do just fine as well.

12ga slug gun……….spoken like a true NY deer hunter. Get ready Jim it's 10 days away !!!!!

 

[Well Armed]

Who is hunting deer with an AR10? I see the AR15 as "assult rifles." Not many who own .223/5.56 AR15s care about hunting or long range shooting with a 22 cal bullet. Most American are never going to take that long of a difference shot for self-defense (legally) or hunting. The OP asked about a backup caliber aka alternative for a .323/5.56, so I do not understand all the hunting, etc talk.

When we're talking about the best alternative round to .223/5.56 for both self-defense AND maybe hunting on an AR platform, x39 is both the most plentiful, cost effective, and best performing round.

 

[rockquarry]

Who is hunting deer with an AR10? I see the AR15 as "assult rifles." Not many who own .223/5.56 AR15s care about hunting or long range shooting with a 22 cal bullet. Most American are never going to take that long of a difference shot for self-defense (legally) or hunting. The OP asked about a backup caliber aka alternative for a .323/5.56, so I do not understand all the hunting, etc talk.

When we're talking about the best alternative round to .223/5.56 for both self-defense AND maybe hunting on an AR platform, x39 is both the most plentiful, cost effective, and best performing round.

I thought he mentioned a hunting use in the original post; despite that, this seems to be a "stir the pot" type thread rather than one intended to be productive.

 

[BrovoEchoSierra]

My vote would be for the 7.62 x 39..
For factory ammo availability the 300 Black out is probably a better choice.
The 7.62 x 39 for a hand loader will out perform the Black out, and is an easy cartridge to load for.
Opinions, will vary...

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

What about those other three that you could POTENTIALLY harvest...?

Cheers!

Still hunting till Jan 1st.......Didn't mention bks killed with other rifles.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

The whole idea of 300blk is sub Sonic loads with suppressors. That was the driving force behind its development.

Yeah, I know. For clandestine people work. Not deer. Think JD Jones developed the same thing called the 300 Whisper.

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Maybe I'm missing something here...is there some hidden advantage to semi-auto fire and a large magazine capacity for hunting varmints or game? That's not a Second Amendment anti-gun question for those wholly consumed by such, it's a simple question regarding hunting.

For hogs yes. When I deer hunt with 7.62x39 I use a ten rd. magazine. It's only sticks out the receiver about an inch.

 

[mtgianni]

I went other, Ditch the AR 15 and go with an AR 10 in 308 Winchester for big game.

 

[65Whelen]

You didn't have the new kids on the block listed, 35 Legend and 6ACR.

But I have to say I'm surprised with all the 7.62x39votes. And guess what the Grendel is, an improved 7.62x39. Guess which caliber I voted for?

All this discussion just proves the AR platform is verisitile and can be used for numerous applications.. What ever your hearts desires.

 

[alwslate]

Maybe not fully equal to the .30-30, but close. You're right, no one complains about the .30-30 as a deer cartridge because they accept it for the short-to- medium range cartridge it is. Spitzer bullet or not, the 7.62x39 is not a long range cartridge either, just like the .30-30.

The 7.62X39 is a short range deer cartridge but it can do double duty as an alternative to the 5.56 in a light weight AR carbine . It is a true 300 yd rifle ctg. for military use or SD in rural areas. That's something the 30-30 can never do. Tests done by the US Government have shown that the common FMJ bullets of the widely available 7.62X39 ammo will penetrate the test steel plate used at 300 yds 100% of the time. The Spitzer bullets give it usable trajectory for large varmints two or four legged at that range. It really is an outstanding compact round and very affordable in bulk. Probably a good choice for US adoption but we'll never know.

 

[LVSteve]

Who is hunting deer with an AR10? I see the AR15 as "assult rifles." Not many who own .223/5.56 AR15s care about hunting or long range shooting with a 22 cal bullet. Most American are never going to take that long of a difference shot for self-defense (legally) or hunting. The OP asked about a backup caliber aka alternative for a .323/5.56, so I do not understand all the hunting, etc talk.

When we're talking about the best alternative round to .223/5.56 for both self-defense AND maybe hunting on an AR platform, x39 is both the most plentiful, cost effective, and best performing round.

The OP started the talk about hunting, and yes, I've read about people who hunt with an AR-10 with a 5-round magazine where such use is legal.

I suggested 300 Blk because the supersonic stuff is almost up there with 7.62x39, but almost may not be close enough for some.

Just a heads up, but we usually avoid using "their" language on the board when referring to the AR platform. General view is that if it ain't full auto capable, it's not anyone's assault rifle.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

P.P.S. I happen to have a couple PA-10s (in 308, of course!), although I still prefer the ol' M77 Ultra Light in 270 WIN for any hunting activities...

 

[Imissedagain]

The 458 SOCOM gets my vote.
Might call it a mini-458 WinMag.
70+ grains of 4198 launches 300gr JSP Sierras at Mach 10
in a No.1H, and the SOCOM would be a fun companion.

The AR15 with a 7mm bullet might be useful.

 

[rockquarry]

The 7.62X39 is a short range deer cartridge but it can do double duty as an alternative to the 5.56 in a light weight AR carbine . It is a true 300 yd rifle ctg. for military use or SD in rural areas. That's something the 30-30 can never do. Tests done by the US Government have shown that the common FMJ bullets of the widely available 7.62X39 ammo will penetrate the test steel plate used at 300 yds 100% of the time. The Spitzer bullets give it usable trajectory for large varmints two or four legged at that range. It really is an outstanding compact round and very affordable in bulk. Probably a good choice for US adoption but we'll never know.

Few have a need to penetrate steel at 300 yards (or any other distance). 7.62x39 ballistics are quite puny in comparison to many cartridges commonly used for hunting. Certainly adequate power for small varmints, but bullet drop would be significant. More of an inhumane stunt for hunting use than something practical.

I suppose if you used FMJ bullets in a .30-30, the same arguments could be made. Other than cheap cost, is there any real use for FMJ bullets in rifles and carbines for civilian use? If soft point and HP bullets were cheaper than FMJ, that's what almost everyone would be using. Most FMJ bullets, unless they are expensive target bullets, provide inferior accuracy to costlier hunting bullets.

 

[Well Armed]

The OP started the talk about hunting, and yes, I've read about people who hunt with an AR-10 with a 5-round magazine where such use is legal.

I suggested 300 Blk because the supersonic stuff is almost up there with 7.62x39, but almost may not be close enough for some.

Just a heads up, but we usually avoid using "their" language on the board when referring to the AR platform. General view is that if it ain't full auto capable, it's not anyone's assault rifle.

Please do not tell me what language I can or can't use, or lecture me in nomenclature. I respectfully said what I said and meant it how I said it.

Next, the 300blk even at supersonic near the performance of 7.62x39. They appear close on paper, but performance wise, x39 is the much more powerful and better penetrating round.

Here's just one of many examples.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3lAJk1lueI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N3lAJk1lueI[/ame]

 

[mtgianni]

Who is hunting deer with an AR10? I see the AR15 as "assult rifles." Not many who own .223/5.56 AR15s care about hunting or long range shooting with a 22 cal bullet. Most American are never going to take that long of a difference shot for self-defense (legally) or hunting. The OP asked about a backup caliber aka alternative for a .323/5.56, so I do not understand all the hunting, etc talk.

When we're talking about the best alternative round to .223/5.56 for both self-defense AND maybe hunting on an AR platform, x39 is both the most plentiful, cost effective, and best performing round.

I know several ranchers son's who use AR 10's for deer, elk and bear. Just as their fathers grew up training with bolt actions, they trained and used AR's.

 

[Baltimoreed11754]

The big draw of the AR is the ability to swap uppers with optics and mags and you have a completely different gun. For a big game short range I'd go with one of the big .45s. For a midrange deer cartridge a x39 would be my pick and for small game and fun a .22. I would add one more upper in a 9mm or .45acp for self defense and pcc competition. Here are a couple .22s, three 45acps and the bottom is x39.

 

[Well Armed]

I suggested 300 Blk because the supersonic stuff is almost up there with 7.62x39, but almost may not be close enough for some.

When it comes to hunting, shooting out of SBR, barrier penetration, energy, power, etc, x39 beats and is better than 300blk by a noticable margin. .

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acq6teNFHTU"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acq6teNFHTU[/ame]

I know several ranchers son's who use AR 10's for deer, elk and bear. Just as their fathers grew up training with bolt actions, they trained and used AR's.

The OP started the talk about hunting, and yes, I've read about people who hunt with an AR-10 with a 5-round magazine where such use is legal.

I don't know anyone, never seen anyone, and don't recall anyone mentioning they use an AR for hunting. Good to know, and thanks for the information.

 

[CH4]

I like the 300 BO and 6.5 Grendel. Don't know why, just do.

 

[walnutred]

I have one AR lower and three uppers, 5.56, 6.5 Grendel and 7.62x39. Of the three the 6.5 has been the most frustrating, I just cannot get that upper to group. Of the three for what you're describing I would look at the 7.62x39. Lower ammo cost for practice and still able to find ammo suitable for deer at close to medium ranges.

 

[rockquarry]

When it comes to hunting, shooting out of SBR, barrier penetration, energy, power, etc, x39 beats and is better than 300blk by a noticable margin. .

7.62x39 vs 300 Blackout for Hunting - YouTube




I don't know anyone, never seen anyone, and don't recall anyone mentioning they use an AR for hunting. Good to know, and thanks for the information.

According to Internet sources, many use these guns for hunting. Maybe they do, but strangely, I've never seen anybody with one in the field.

Like the mythical "all day long" rifles and their incredible accuracy, I've never been fortunate enough to own one. The Internet maestros bought them all up.

 

[Echo40]

Oops! Sorry, it hadn't occurred to me to mention it, but as far as Hunting goes, the biggest animal I'm likely to encounter in my state is a Black Bear, and obviously I wouldn't be hunting those.

So yeah, if I were to actually hunt anything it would be Deer. Granted, I don't actually plan on hunting, I'd just like to have a sort of all-purpose round that could be used effectively for hunting.

As for range, that's not too important to me because my eyesight isn't that good, so I'm under no illusions of me being able to take 600 yard bulls eye shots.

Last but not least, since so far .300 Blackout and 7.62x39 are so close in the polls, and perform so similarly, I wanted to ask... Is it true that 7.62x39 won't work in a standard AR lower? I've heard some contention on the subject with some saying that it just needs special magazines while others insist that it requires a unique lower.
Obviously, I'd prefer a cartridge which will function in my M&P15s lower so that I can save money and avoid the hassle of having to fill out a form by simply purchasing an upper assembly and some magazines rather than a complete rifle.

 

[walnutred]

7.62x39 and 6.5 Grendel use the same magazines but that magazine is different from 5.56 magazines. I've had not trouble running the three cartridges that I mentioned through the same basic lower.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

Lowers are the same: magazines and BCGs for 7.62x39 differ from 223/5.56 & 300 Blackout...

Cheers!

P.S. Yet another reason, IMHO...

 

[Echo40]

Well, .300 Blackout is currently winning the polls, and I must admit that I find it more interesting than 7.62x39, so that's definitely the direction I'm leaning in at present.

 

[rockquarry]

Slightly off track, but regarding the 7.62x39...I did extensive experimentation twenty or so years ago using two then-new limited production (Davidson's) Ruger stainless bolt-actions in 7.62x39 (the ones with the hideous synthetic stocks) using cast bullets. I tried nine cast bullet designs ranging in weight from 159 to 217 grains. I used around eight powders. The twist rate of these rifles was 1 in 10".

I guess this was more of a "see if it can be done" stunt rather that anything close to real usefulness. However, I was quite surprised at the accuracy capability especally with the very heavy bullets that the cartridge was never designed to use. Muzzle velocities of over 1,700 fps were attainable even with bullets of 200 grains or more. Cast of the right alloy, such bullets would be capable of expansion to 100 yards or so.


I see no reason why the cast bullet loads would not work well work in an AR. Nevertheless, I see little use for the cartridge for my own purposes. I eventually sold both rifles and don't intend to load for it again.

 

[Well Armed]

According to Internet sources, many use these guns for hunting. Maybe they do, but strangely, I've never seen anybody with one in the field.

Like the mythical "all day long" rifles and their incredible accuracy, I've never been fortunate enough to own one. The Internet maestros bought them all up.

Same here. I think some may do it, but it's extremely rare and uncommon. Even if you say no one goes hunting deer with a 9mm, 40s&w, or even a 22lr, there will be someone who says they have or they know someone who has.

 

[Well Armed]

Oops! Sorry, it hadn't occurred to me to mention it, but as far as Hunting goes, the biggest animal I'm likely to encounter in my state is a Black Bear, and obviously I wouldn't be hunting those.

So yeah, if I were to actually hunt anything it would be Deer. Granted, I don't actually plan on hunting, I'd just like to have a sort of all-purpose round that could be used effectively for hunting.

As for range, that's not too important to me because my eyesight isn't that good, so I'm under no illusions of me being able to take 600 yard bulls eye shots.

Last but not least, since so far .300 Blackout and 7.62x39 are so close in the polls, and perform so similarly, I wanted to ask... Is it true that 7.62x39 won't work in a standard AR lower? I've heard some contention on the subject with some saying that it just needs special magazines while others insist that it requires a unique lower.
Obviously, I'd prefer a cartridge which will function in my M&P15s lower so that I can save money and avoid the hassle of having to fill out a form by simply purchasing an upper assembly and some magazines rather than a complete rifle.

I've built several 7.62x39 ARs. All that is needed from a .223/5.56 AR15 are C-Product magazines which come in various sizes and are reliable, a $50 +/- bolt (you use the same 223/556 carrier), and of course the barrel.

To use your same M&P15 lower all you'd need to purchase was an upper and magazines.

On the flipside, with 300blk, all you need is the upper, but don't need to purchase mags as they use standerd AR15 mags. The catch to that is 300blk ammo is more expensive by approximately $0.1-$0.5 per round with translates to $100 - $500 or more per 1000 round case.

 

[Echo40]

Alright, but that begs the question whether the cost savings are offset by the additional cost of 7.62x39 AR Magazines?

I imagine that after purchasing a few magazines the cost savings in ammunition aren't going to make up for the additional cost of magazines.

 

[GypsmJim]

12ga slug gun……….spoken like a true NY deer hunter. Get ready Jim it's 10 days away !!!!!

Already ready. Just today I raked leaves for the last time, winterized the tractor, set up my deer stand and took a single sighting in shot.