I have a 568 nickel and a high polish 686 that I love dearly. I've been wanting to add a Python to my collection for some time now as well, but I'm not going to pay the ridiculous prices they're going for these days. I heard from several people that 1 or 2 people have been buying these up and thereby drying up and driving up the market. Whatever it is, are the Pythons really that much better than the 586/686 to merit what they're going for? I think I know the answer (hell no) but I wanted to hear from you guys. To me the only thing Python has going for it that the Smith doesn't is it looks slightly cooler with that ventilated rib.
What's up with the Pythons
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with the price of pythons going up i would say s&w is right behind them and they are going up
Colt got out of the double action revolver game almost twenty years ago; S&W is still around making them. Mystique plays a large factor in collecting.
Are some Colts' greater premiums on the open market evidence of superior products compared to S&W counterparts? Not in my opinion.
Too, the older S&Ws, alas, appear to now be crossing the same event horizon of exponentially increasing prices at certain collector grades that Colt did some years back.
Are some Colts' greater premiums on the open market evidence of superior products compared to S&W counterparts? Not in my opinion.
Too, the older S&Ws, alas, appear to now be crossing the same event horizon of exponentially increasing prices at certain collector grades that Colt did some years back.
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Don't know about just a few people buying up Pythons. They are sought after and out of production so prices will go up to the point at which demand drops; they may then go into hiding or prices will fall.
Since the 586/686 are still produced, older ones will see an increase in value but I doubt regular production guns will reach Python-like prices. Specials like 3" 586s and CS-1 will go up in price faster.
Since the 586/686 are still produced, older ones will see an increase in value but I doubt regular production guns will reach Python-like prices. Specials like 3" 586s and CS-1 will go up in price faster.
I was told a story (who knows if it's true) of a guy who made a fortune selling his business and decided to use some of his proceeds to buy up every Python he could find.
jtcarm
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You sure it's not another DHS conspiracy
That reminds me of a local story: Back in the early 80s, Nelson "Bunker" Hunt and his brother William (heirs to H.L. Hunt's billions) tried to corner the silver futures market and ended up losing their shirts.
Texas Monthly Magazine, in their annual "Best of Texas" issue, listed "Best way to make a small fortune: take a tip from the Hunt brothers and start with a big one."
gkitch
Member
The S&W is a better revolver in most ways.
I believe the Python market is much like the classic car market. The Python was no better than S&Ws but they were beautiful and cool and expensive. Young people with no money wanted to own Pythons but could not afford them.
Now those same people are older and financially comfortable and many have decided to buy themselves their dream guns no matter the cost. There have never been that many Pythons out there as compared to Smiths and Rugers anyhow so the market went through the roof.
A good friend sold off his Colt DAs and kept his S&Ws over the years. He opined that a Colt is like a beautiful, spoiled woman. We are drawn to the beauty and spend our money while taking extra care to keep her safe at home. In time we realize that there is nothing extra there on the performance side and start wanting a more practical and stronger version that is happy to go wth us on the hunting and fishing trips.
Of course, a major difference is that with guns one may have both a pretty one at home and another to take with you to the field...and get away with it.
I believe the Python market is much like the classic car market. The Python was no better than S&Ws but they were beautiful and cool and expensive. Young people with no money wanted to own Pythons but could not afford them.
Now those same people are older and financially comfortable and many have decided to buy themselves their dream guns no matter the cost. There have never been that many Pythons out there as compared to Smiths and Rugers anyhow so the market went through the roof.
A good friend sold off his Colt DAs and kept his S&Ws over the years. He opined that a Colt is like a beautiful, spoiled woman. We are drawn to the beauty and spend our money while taking extra care to keep her safe at home. In time we realize that there is nothing extra there on the performance side and start wanting a more practical and stronger version that is happy to go wth us on the hunting and fishing trips.
Of course, a major difference is that with guns one may have both a pretty one at home and another to take with you to the field...and get away with it.
I've always been partial to S&W, but the Python's one of those I wish I'd made a move on when they were in production, when prices on new and used were in the realm of reality. Aside from the $$$, a Python would have to be a safe queen. Parts are getting hard to find, as well as guys who know how to work on them. Pythons were hand fitted, as close to custom as any production gun could be, (another reason Colt quit making them). You don't take Wedgewood china and Lennox crystal when you go camping. For the same reason, much as I'd like to, a Python would be my last choice for EDC. I'd even think twice about too many range trips. Too much to risk.
Cocked & Locked
Member
This thread needs to have at least one picture in it.
Or two I suppose...
Or two I suppose...
MattJames
Member
I posted in the regrets thread but I'll mention it here because for a long time I regretted selling (for really cheap) an 8" nickle Python several years ago. I bought it when I turned of legal age to buy back in '79.
So, instead of spending crazy money to get something similar back, I justified spending that kind of money on these (and I am beyond happy that I did):
So, instead of spending crazy money to get something similar back, I justified spending that kind of money on these (and I am beyond happy that I did):
I agree with gkitch. All one has to do is open the side plate of a Colt revolver. What were the Colt engineers thinking? Compare that to the mechanics of a Smith&Wesson. There you can see why the S&W is a better gun.
Back when the stainless Python first came out,'I bought a 6" model. It was pricey, about $400 as I recall. The single action trigger was very nice. In DA, I think my Smiths were better. I sold it about 10 years ago form$1400. Don't really regret it. They are nice, but not that nice.
Thinking logical about the Python - they were made for about 40 years. OK, say Colt only made 1,000 per year, then how is anyone going to find and buy 40,000 Pythons to corner a market? And "what market"? They are already priced 3-4 times real value. IMO the Python is one of the best looking revolvers ever - but also one of the most fragile (hand tuned to perfection) revolvers that will jump timing before a S&W has even been broken in... Safe queen? Why?? If I can't own something that I can use as designed and intended, they what good does it do hidden in the back of the safe? Something for an heir to take to a flea market or gun show in the future and trade for the newest plastic gun on the market? Something to take out and show guests? Even a Rolex gets arm time!
Great point!
My $0.02.........I have a python from the custom shop that my wife bought for me in 1980. 6" royal blue. Single action is great but I've always hated the stacking on double action. TWICE over the years I've had to remove and peen(stretch the lower leg) the hand to get it back in time. The actions are fragile and will go out of time if shot alot. So I've had mine 34 years and for the last 6 or so it sleeps in the bottom of my safe. For my use my Smiths are much more durable and fun to shoot.
BTW My son is a Colt collector. He has 3 pythons among his other colts. He treats his colts like fine china seldom carrying them in the woods or hunting.
BTW My son is a Colt collector. He has 3 pythons among his other colts. He treats his colts like fine china seldom carrying them in the woods or hunting.
AveragEd
Member
Pythons were cool guns. I used to buy a gun from a wholesale distributor who was a customer of ours when I got my bonus check each month. Over the years, I accumulated a Python in every barrel length and finish. I only shot one of them and sold them all 20-some years ago when I received an offer I thought too good to refuse. Today, I have a modest collection of about a dozen pre-IL, pre-MIM Smith & Wessons and believe I own the better guns. As W4 intimated, Python internals are very Swiss watch-like and too complicated for someone lacking Colt training to repair or retime (a common requirement for them).
But there is a message for us in the Python price situation. They are escalating in price because they were fine guns that were very desirable and are no longer made. Smith & Wesson still manufacturers good double-action revolvers BUT they no longer make them without locks (for the most part), with forged parts, one-piece barrels, square butts, grooved grip frames and the rest of the "old school" differences. Regardless of where you stand on the newer v. older S&W argument, there IS an undeniable difference in the two genres of S&Ws and that is going to cause a Python-like escalation of resale value for those older versions.
Have you priced really nice Model 19s and 66s lately? I watch sold auctions on GunBroker frequently and my three Model 66s have appreciated nicely since I bought them three to five years ago. I noticed a distinct spike in Model 66 selling prices when the new -8s hit the market, thus indicating that the older ones are considered more valuable than the new ones by a lot of people.
Mr. Moderator, please do not take that last sentence as a bash on the new Model 66 - it was not intended as such and is merely a statement of fact.
If you would like to be like the people who are now able to sell Pythons for what has been described as "ridiculous" prices in this very thread, then get off your duffs and buy some older S&Ws. You will have some very nice guns that you can enjoy owning and even shoot without devaluing them until their values also become "ridiculous."
Ed
But there is a message for us in the Python price situation. They are escalating in price because they were fine guns that were very desirable and are no longer made. Smith & Wesson still manufacturers good double-action revolvers BUT they no longer make them without locks (for the most part), with forged parts, one-piece barrels, square butts, grooved grip frames and the rest of the "old school" differences. Regardless of where you stand on the newer v. older S&W argument, there IS an undeniable difference in the two genres of S&Ws and that is going to cause a Python-like escalation of resale value for those older versions.
Have you priced really nice Model 19s and 66s lately? I watch sold auctions on GunBroker frequently and my three Model 66s have appreciated nicely since I bought them three to five years ago. I noticed a distinct spike in Model 66 selling prices when the new -8s hit the market, thus indicating that the older ones are considered more valuable than the new ones by a lot of people.
Mr. Moderator, please do not take that last sentence as a bash on the new Model 66 - it was not intended as such and is merely a statement of fact.
If you would like to be like the people who are now able to sell Pythons for what has been described as "ridiculous" prices in this very thread, then get off your duffs and buy some older S&Ws. You will have some very nice guns that you can enjoy owning and even shoot without devaluing them until their values also become "ridiculous."
Ed
Maximumbob54
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I paid $1K for this:
I still enjoy it and usually shoot .38's through it just to keep it from needing maintenance too soon. I don't look forward to that day as I'm sure it won't come cheap. But I swear this gun makes me a better shooter. I've read the way they bored the barrels the end got tighter to really grip the bullets and force that spin which leads to slightly lower velocity. All I know is with WC's I can rip the red center from most targets. Oh, and anyone that has thought the Python's trigger in single action or double action wasn't superior had a Python in need of repair.
I still enjoy it and usually shoot .38's through it just to keep it from needing maintenance too soon. I don't look forward to that day as I'm sure it won't come cheap. But I swear this gun makes me a better shooter. I've read the way they bored the barrels the end got tighter to really grip the bullets and force that spin which leads to slightly lower velocity. All I know is with WC's I can rip the red center from most targets. Oh, and anyone that has thought the Python's trigger in single action or double action wasn't superior had a Python in need of repair.
kwselke
Member
I pulled out a 1991 Guns & Ammo Annual, Pythons started at a list price of $759.95 while the 586 started at $401. That is a 90% premium for the Python in 1991. Pythons were always expensive guns. Once they were no longer made the premium increased.
Dennis The B
US Veteran
First, Colt stopped making them ca. 2007. With stopping production, comes scarcity in the market. The Python action was hand fitted; like no other revolver. The Python has a finish (Royal Blue, nickel) which was far better than any other Colt, and to some, superior to other manufacturers. That mystique remains, and it drives up the cost of the remaining market. What could be purchased for as little as $400 new, now commands prices in excess of $2000, and the price is not going down. One only has to decide when, or if, to jump into the fray.
The Colt action was unique. It continually "stacked" until the sear released. The S&W, on the other hand, stacked up to a certain point, and then used the same amount of pull to release the sear. Folks generally line up on one side, or the other.
The barrel on the Python has a tapered bore, which greatly added to accuracy. That's why the Smolt conversion (Python barrel, K frame) was a popular conversion. You just never see a S&W barrel, and a Colt frame. The Python is also larger than the S&W K frame (and the attendant problems with light .357 bullets), smaller than the N frames. That was a selling point.
The Python was a status symbol especially for some police officers. Carrying one denoted an elite status, if you will.
No one person can possible corner the market on used Pythons. There are thousands out there, and some folks won't sell their guns at any price. That's the way markets operate.
There are also niche markets within the general market. 2.5" and 3" models bring a real premium, because they're scarce within the family. The most common barrel length, 4" does bring the least money (relatively). There is a lot of fakery out there,too. Just look at the number of fake boxes, documentation, "California Combat" models, etc., that are for sale. Folks will pay a premium for the accoutrements.
I own three, and they're great revolvers.
The Colt action was unique. It continually "stacked" until the sear released. The S&W, on the other hand, stacked up to a certain point, and then used the same amount of pull to release the sear. Folks generally line up on one side, or the other.
The barrel on the Python has a tapered bore, which greatly added to accuracy. That's why the Smolt conversion (Python barrel, K frame) was a popular conversion. You just never see a S&W barrel, and a Colt frame. The Python is also larger than the S&W K frame (and the attendant problems with light .357 bullets), smaller than the N frames. That was a selling point.
The Python was a status symbol especially for some police officers. Carrying one denoted an elite status, if you will.
No one person can possible corner the market on used Pythons. There are thousands out there, and some folks won't sell their guns at any price. That's the way markets operate.
There are also niche markets within the general market. 2.5" and 3" models bring a real premium, because they're scarce within the family. The most common barrel length, 4" does bring the least money (relatively). There is a lot of fakery out there,too. Just look at the number of fake boxes, documentation, "California Combat" models, etc., that are for sale. Folks will pay a premium for the accoutrements.
I own three, and they're great revolvers.
Pythons
I think the pythons and diamond backs are classic designs and are great looking revolvers & testament to Colt's ability to produce beautiful revolvers, having said that.....I have been a "revolver mechanic" since the early 70's and was an agency armorer for decades.....there are reasons why you did not see Colt revolvers dominating the law enforcement market, PPC matches, the bullseye matches, pin shoots, IPSC , ISHMA revolver, etc....the fellow who was my mentor as a armorer had been in the trade since the 40's and worked on thousands of Colt's and Smith's. He always made jokes abt the Colt's and their innards....they were the "big hammer" guns in his vernacular.
I've owned them, shot them and fixed them....but the vast majority of my revolvers are Smith & Wessons and most of my 1911's are Colt's. As far as spending a couple of thousand of dollars for a python....they can have them as far as I am concerned & leave the Smith's for me.
I think the pythons and diamond backs are classic designs and are great looking revolvers & testament to Colt's ability to produce beautiful revolvers, having said that.....I have been a "revolver mechanic" since the early 70's and was an agency armorer for decades.....there are reasons why you did not see Colt revolvers dominating the law enforcement market, PPC matches, the bullseye matches, pin shoots, IPSC , ISHMA revolver, etc....the fellow who was my mentor as a armorer had been in the trade since the 40's and worked on thousands of Colt's and Smith's. He always made jokes abt the Colt's and their innards....they were the "big hammer" guns in his vernacular.
I've owned them, shot them and fixed them....but the vast majority of my revolvers are Smith & Wessons and most of my 1911's are Colt's. As far as spending a couple of thousand of dollars for a python....they can have them as far as I am concerned & leave the Smith's for me.
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gkitch
Member
BigBill
Absent Comrade
Please kill the snakes. Colts are not what there cracked up to be. Do to p1ss poor workmanship I'm not really into Colts anymore.(1911/pythons) beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It's only skin deep. I been there, done the Colt thing. I can't afford to keep on paying top dollar for a lesser quality gun. When I lose money once I write that product off. When I lose money on three guns of the same brand now there's a gap in my wallet where my money once was and that spot in my safe is empty. But now thirty years later the s&w's are filling the empty spaces finally.
Stay with the s&w's don't drop the big money on the lesser quality colt guns. The snakes did nothing for me when they weren't reliable. I wish I had the chance to slam the colt garbage on there CEO's desk. After working for one of the top ten engineering groups in the country and doing R&D plus life testing before the products went into the field I learned a lot how some companies just push junk out. When colt cut back costs the quality control dept went first. Think about it. I had three guns I couldn't ccw carry which that's why I purchased them in the first place. These were made for paper weights or throwing.
I can purchase two or three s&w's to the cost of one over priced python.
I'll pass. I've had rugers for 35 years now. I just got into s&w's. Sorry I took so long. The scalpers during the dirty Harry era turned me off on the s&w revolvers. But I'm buying a quality s&w that I know will work if my life depends on it.
Don't let the good looks empty your wallet. If you own the s&w N Frame in 357 mag you have the best already.
Stay with the s&w's don't drop the big money on the lesser quality colt guns. The snakes did nothing for me when they weren't reliable. I wish I had the chance to slam the colt garbage on there CEO's desk. After working for one of the top ten engineering groups in the country and doing R&D plus life testing before the products went into the field I learned a lot how some companies just push junk out. When colt cut back costs the quality control dept went first. Think about it. I had three guns I couldn't ccw carry which that's why I purchased them in the first place. These were made for paper weights or throwing.
I can purchase two or three s&w's to the cost of one over priced python.
I'll pass. I've had rugers for 35 years now. I just got into s&w's. Sorry I took so long. The scalpers during the dirty Harry era turned me off on the s&w revolvers. But I'm buying a quality s&w that I know will work if my life depends on it.
Don't let the good looks empty your wallet. If you own the s&w N Frame in 357 mag you have the best already.
Dennis The B
US Veteran
In the 1970's, we played a lot of softball at the local FOP lodge field. Of course, a lot of cops played on various teams. There were several Jefferson County (Kentucky) police detectives who carried 4" nickel Pythons as their side arms. It was a definite status piece for a lot of guys. This was at a time when standard issue for detectives was a S&W Model 19/66 2.5".
Not to sound flip, and not questioning your experience at all, but that's a lot of perhaps well-earned vitriol without any explanation. What happened?
As far as Colt quality control, it's generally accepted even among Colt enthusiasts that as the company glidepathed toward bankruptcy starting in the late '70s and reaching a crisis by the early '90s, QC indeed nose-dived.
I'll bet that in twenty years
I'll bet that in twenty years the 686 will be as much in demand as the Python is now.
To tell the truth, I never thought Pythons were so good looking. I'd like to see how they look without the ventilated rib.
I'll bet that in twenty years the 686 will be as much in demand as the Python is now.
To tell the truth, I never thought Pythons were so good looking. I'd like to see how they look without the ventilated rib.
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71firebird400
Member
I truly prefer my Colt's (Shooting Master and a number of Pythons) to my S&W's but it is all subjective. The Colt's may require a bit more maintenance to the hand, but that is due to their lockup design. It is true the Pythons keep going up in price, and I think this gets folks riled up, but it's just the way things go. I don't hold the high prices a Registered Magnum or Triple Lock demand against those guns; it's just what they're worth. I have noticed the S&W Forum for the most part is particularly bitter towards the Python.
Cocked & Locked
Member
Some Colt revolver slamming going on big time in this thread without providing much if any specific detail on personally owned guns!
Guess it's a good thing they are not in current production.
Not a Python but these are following the same path and quickly going higher in "value"...as are all Colt revolvers.
Anaconda...another one of my favorites.
Of course I like S&W as well.
Guess it's a good thing they are not in current production.
Not a Python but these are following the same path and quickly going higher in "value"...as are all Colt revolvers.
Anaconda...another one of my favorites.
Of course I like S&W as well.
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I guess I must be an incredibly fortunate guy. I own 2 Pythons and one Registered Magnum. I paid 3x as much for the one RM as I did for both Pythons total. Course, I've owned the snakes for a few years. Still, inflation or appreciation? The RM cost $60 new.
Ive been chasing S&W revolvers for about 10 years along with Colt 1911s,but these 3 managed to sneak in.
