Where to get a part Mod3?

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ebeeby

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I now have two Model 3's in 44 Russian. Still new to these pistols and still researching them. Serial numbers 21xx and 52xx. The 52xx pistol has a broken part - perhaps someone could direct me to a parts supplier for these pistols? I don't know the part name but it is the center ring of the barrel pivot.

The lower number pistol is in well worn nickel with plastic grips which have the S&W logo at the top. The other pistol is blued with a great deal of finish remaining and checkered wood grips, no logo. Were grip materials an option when these pistols were made? Both have 6.5 inch barrels.

Also, is there a go-to book on the model 3?

I am considering having a Texas Colt shop re-nickel the one pistol as the metal is still quite good under what is left of the original nickel. This shop is quite good at hand re-finishing. I'm not a big fan of re-finishing generally, but I think this pistol deserves to be brought back to its original splendor.
 
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Welcome to the Forum. First question is what type of Model 3 do you have? They came in Old Old Model (which was basically an American in 44 Russian, Old Model Russian, Russian Model, and New Model 3s. I think, however, the information below should be good for most Model 3s.

These revolvers have not been manufactured for 140 years and parts are few and far between. I did, however, come across what I think you need. If you are describing the ratchet or gear, David Chicoine lists one on his website. If he still has it, grab it, since you will be hard pressed to find another one. Click on link below.

Smith &
 
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http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/ebeeby2010/Guns/NMNo3complete_zps735b22aa.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/ebeeby2010/Guns/NMNo3brokenratchet_zps456796be.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/ebeeby2010/Guns/NMNo3nickel_zps473a89e4.jpeg

Thanks for your fast reply. I believe these to be New Model no3 pistols. In the one photo, you can see that the ratchet ring is broken. I don't think this is the same ratchet shown in the link you provided (I could be wrong)
The 3rd photo is of the nickel example. The condition of the nickel makes it look worse than it actually is. Strictly a surface finish issue hence the idea of re-nickeling.
 
You do have a New Model 3 SA in 44 Russian, and you are correct, the standard ratchet fits every model but yours. I would still check with David Chicoine and you can post a WTB accessory on this board. There is also Jack First, but you have to buy the catalog or call, as they do not have much online.

Good Luck.
 
There is no book that I know of dedicated just to New Model 3s, but you will find the most information available in Roy Jink's book Smith & Wesson 1857-1945, A Handbook for Collectors. Non-first editions are still available on Amazon, etc.

If you are looking for information on gunsmithing these old west guns, David Chicoine's Gunsmithing Guns of the Old West is good and has a section on the New Model 3s.
 
Standard stocks on these models were the hard rubber (what you call plastic) stocks. The checkered wood stocks were an option. Whether or not to refinish the nickel gun, is your choice. It might improve the looks, but it will cost far more than it will add to the value of the gun, and could even lower the value unless the refinisher is very, very, skilled in polishing the gun before applying the new nickel. I challenge any known restorer to refinish a S&W, such as yours, in such a fashion that I cannot tell it's been refinished. Ed.
 
Ed - Thanks for your comments. I agree that re-finishing is less than ideal in most cases. It's just that badly worn nickel is a rather hideous look on an otherwise tight pistol. The re-finish is for me as I intend it as a shooter.

Eric
 
My take on refinishing is that I wouldn't buy it at any price (I know you're not selling, but when..) - except for parts - and I'd really need the part. I don't want to sound like a 'downer' but an honest used gun is more interesting to me than a new or older refinish. If a 'new' (140 year old) revolver type (a flashy or SASS piece) is desired, then I suggest the purchase a modern Cimmeron or Navy Arms copy. I'm an antique type; enjoy the scars of the battle type guy. Mike #283
 
glowe said:
You do have a New Model 3 SA in 44 Russian, and you are correct, the standard ratchet fits every model but yours. I would still check with David Chicoine and you can post a WTB accessory on this board. There is also Jack First, but you have to buy the catalog or call, as they do not have much online.

Good Luck.
Click to expand...

Jack First didn't have it and David Chicoine hasn't replied to my email as yet. Thanks for the leads. If you think of any others, please post them.

Eric
 
ebeeby said:
Jack First didn't have it and David Chicoine hasn't replied to my email as yet. Thanks for the leads. If you think of any others, please post them.

Eric
Click to expand...

Since you have another Model 3 with a functioning ratchet, you may have to find a machinist and have one made. He can use one for a pattern and make another. It is not too difficult to fabricate a ratchet, but will probably not be cheap.
 
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glowe said:
Since you have another Model 2 with a functioning ratchet, you may have to find a machinist and have one made. He can use one for a pattern and make another. It is not too difficult to fabricate a ratchet, but will probably not be cheap.
Click to expand...

Yes, I had thought of that. I'll see if the group who will be "un-boogering" the screws on the blued gun can fabricate a ratchet using the nickel gun part as a template.

By the way, would you happen to know when a 4 digit NM no3 would have been made?
 
A refinished antique firearm has forever lost it's intrinsic value. Ugly and scared, they are much valuable than phoney shiny. Most collectors think of a refinished gun as junk, unless it is a very rare gun.
 
1869 said:
A refinished antique firearm has forever lost it's intrinsic value. Ugly and scared, they are much valuable than phoney shiny. Most collectors think of a refinished gun as junk, unless it is a very rare gun.
Click to expand...

I would disagree with the "junk" term. There is still an active market for refinished guns and today many collectors acquire refinished revolvers, many as shooters. Prices are definately affected by a new finish, but there is still a market for nicely done refinishes. Take a look at the prices that gunsmiths like David Chicoine is quoting and you will still see good prices realized.

I would agree that if it is not already refinished, I would leave it as is, especially a antique Model 3. Clean it up, lightly polish, remove rust, but leave it original. Having said that, a New Model 3 in the condition you show could sell for as low as $1000, but a refinish like David or Fords offer would bring the value up to $1500+/-, but you by the time you pay for the job, you may not see any profit.
 
Hi,
I just was out last night and found this sight and your thred. I have a quick note on the extractor gear for your gun. There are two of the new model gears on Gunbroker.com They are not complete as they lack the latch. However it is some where to start. Listing # 320697404 $150.00 each. Cheep if you need one and are not into machine work.
KR
 
Thanks for the heads up. Not sure if the part listed, which is stated as 1st and 2nd model, will work in the New Model 3. Expecting the broken ratchet pistol via fedex today. I'll pull the ratchet ring to see if it is the same.
Thanks again.
 
Just disassembled the NM no3 and after removing the insert, the broken ratchet ring looks exactly like the ones listed. I have an email into the seller to ask if he has any positive info that his ratchet rings will NOT fit the NM no3.
 
Ha! This NM no3 has a broken ratchet ring from a No1 or No2 in it! So I am still on the hunt for a ratchet ring for a NM no3.
 
I do not have an extracter gear/cam/ratchet ring, but, someone on this forum might have one.. if you could photograph the part you need then it might jog someone's memory. Nice pix of the blue NM#3 and holster by the way. Mike #283
 
In looking at the blued pistol, I see a "star" stamped between the lock-up lugs. Does this indicate a factory re-finish?
 
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/ebeeby2010/Guns/No3ratchetandrod_zpsf8e34b97.jpg
http://i788.photobucket.com/albums/yy162/ebeeby2010/Guns/Ratchetforsale_zpsbd4f5d56.jpg

I'm beginning to figure this out. The blued pistol with the broken ratchet does NOT have a no1 or no2 broken ratchet. It has a broekn ratchet and is missing the "gap filler" pieces shown in the photo of the ratchet and op rod from my working no3. The other photo is of ratchets for sale that are advertised as No1 or No2. BUt I think they are exactly the same except that the hole insert and "gap filler" pieces are absent.
 
Hi again,
I guess I should have told you he had the gears miss-labeled. When the post on GB was first done he had some no.1 and no.2 gears mixed in with the 3rd gears. Needless to say the older parts went first.
The gear you showed that came from your gun is a 3rd. If you get a copy of Dave Chicoine's book Sixguns of the old west. He has excellent parts pictures and descriptions of the parts in the American and Russian revolvers. I have made several parts from the how to section of his book and have had some dealings with him through buying parts and having him inspect some of my work that I could not get much information on such as the pawls for the no1 and no2 Americans.
Also if you take a look at his web sight he has some old parts breakdowns that you can look at. Not as good as the book as the breakdowns are for the person that has been working on the guns for some time.
As I currently have 6 on my bench right now I am parting back together I have been keeping my eye on GB for parts. At this writing I am closing in on getting done with recreating the early ratchet for my OOM Russian's. As with most guns of this era I am now in the mode of making the last hard to get parts not buying them. Good luck and I will try and keep up with your post and answer any questions that I can. By the way I am not an expert by any means just a person that has gotten into the mode of fixing old guns for fun and I am big into the S&W American and Russian models .
KR
 
I just clicked to something you said in your last post. The hole in the center has what is called a bushing in it. I am needing to make some soon so I can make you one at the same time. There is not much to the bushing it is 3/8 OD. with a hole in the center for the pivit pin. Can't remember the size right now and I am at work so I can't run to the shop and measure it. It is no longer being used on the reproductions however I would put one in an original.
KR
 
The add I pointed you to on GB was for the .44 russian gear third model. He had some first and second gears at one time however he sold them. The add is about a year old and he had around ten gears when he started.
The .44 gear is larger than the .38/.32 gear that looks the same. As he has some of each he should know the differance. If you want write and ask him if you can return it if it is the wrong size. I have bought a lot of parts from this seller in the last year and he is good to deal with.

Good luck
KR
 
Hi,
I did a quick look up in Sixguns of the old west and found we were both wrong. It is a type 4 pawl. It was used in the early new model No3. I have included a page form Dave's book for you to look at it shows all the different types that were used in the Russian. As to the seller on GB you could ask him to measure the pawl if you would like to make sure it is the right dia. It should be somewhere in the .957 OD and .155 thick. If it is I don't care what he calls it is right. I did open up a gun I just got this week and it has the later pawl in it with the hook and latch assembly. I am not sure if it is the same latch however if it is I have a pattern to make one from if you wish. I generally just charge shop time on things like that as there is almost no material involved. I would guess it to be about 2 to 3 hours of hand work. However I warn you this is a hobby for me and I do the work as the mood and time permit.
KR
 

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