Which gunsmith for a bullseye trigger job?

[DWalt]

I doubt too many competitive Bullseye shooters today use revolvers in the centerfire course. Most everyone uses a .45 for both CF and .45 simply because they get better scores by using the same gun.

I shot Bullseye for many years (way back when many shooters did use K-38s in the CF stage) and I used a stock K-38 in the CF stage. I never felt any need to screw around with its lockwork or springs to get a light DA trigger pull. As previously stated, in slow and timed, you are probably going to be shooting in single action anyway. I agree with satoken - use the money you'd spend on a gunsmith for ammo instead.

 

[lrrifleman]

I have shot, and plan to return to NRA 2700 3 gun bullseye matches. I have used, and will use a K22 for the rimfire matches, a K38 for the centerfire matches, and my Trophy Match for the 45 matches. I learned how to fire all 3 stages single action, there is no way I would try to shoot the timed and rapid fire stages double action. I have a Model 14-4 3T that I use for bullseye, and I am contemplating installing a Single Action kit.

Engage in a little practice with your 19, and you will be able to do single action with time to spare and be in the 90% range during the rapid fire stages. You will notice a significant improvement in your score if you use a target trigger and hammer over a service or semi-target hammer.

 

[H Richard]

For those who claim a 4 lb DA trigger job, ask them how long that will last? Any trigger that light will not last and be reliable. 6-8 lbs id about the best you can get and have it reliable over the long haul.

 

[Troystat]

Zane you don't say where you live so I don't want to recommend somebody who lives a 1000 miles away. I have a Model 17-4 that I thought had a good single action trigger but the DA trigger was not smooth and it was heavy so I had a very good gunsmith who is no longer with us do an action and trigger job, the difference was night and day. When he was done the single action was even better and the DA trigger pull was better and the gun as a whole was much nicer to shoot. I would ask around your area and see who does good work. The K-Frames are not hard to tune if the tuner knows what they are doing and it is money well spent in my opinion (which with 5 bucks with get you a large coffee at Starbucks). Let us know how it goes.

 

[zanemoseley]

Thanks for all the input. The 19 won't be a serious bullseye gun for me, I've just wanted a revolver for a couple years and once I get it there's no reason not to shoot it in my small local matchs, the larger regional matches I'll still with my match auto pistols.

Also I live in middle Tennessee.

 

[MajorD]

Well I read about Nelson Ford and Frank Glenn. I read several reviews saying Nelson was a monster jerk and had horrible customer service, not saying he doesn't do good work though. I called and spoke with Frank, I'll likely be sending it to him. Only thing I wasn't thrilled about is that he said typically an action job only gets the DA down to 8-9 pounds. When it comes time to send it to him I may see if there's anything he can do to get it a tad lower.

Regarding its use for bullseye, there are 3 types of fire, slow fire, timed fire and rapid fire. The slow fire would obviously be SA only. The timed fire you have 20 seconds to fire 5 shots so it could feasibly be done with SA as well. Rapid fire on the other hand is 5 shots in 10 seconds and would definitely be DA.

Honestly shooting a revolver for Bullseye will be for fun only, I'll probably use it for small local matches, kind of a throwback to the good old days. They do have Distinguished Revolver matches but they're pretty difficult to find.

I know plenty of shooters using revolvers and a good number who are revolver distinguished or in that degree of skill.
A factory smith as is is more than sufficient trigger wise to be effective in bullseye and I know NO ONE using double action in any stage of the national match course including the rapid fire. I use a 17 for .22 and a 14 for center Fire in bullseye and my rapid fires are done well within the 10 second limit in single action.
S&W even made special order single action only model 14's for bullseye

 

[GB]

Keep in mind that replacement Hammers and Triggers are now high dollar items. Target H&Ts even more so. Back in the day, when revolvers were king, every good gun shop had a rack on the counter with sights and grips and Hammers and Triggers. Midway still has/shows K-frame hammers but not target. I ordered one a few months ago to replace one on a broken model 10. If you buy one from most places it will be out of a used gun and who knows what condition it will be in. So, buy what you need and then keep the ones that came with the gun. Once the stones and files come out--you can't go back. And a revolver with push off will not be looked on with a smile by you or a match official.

 

[stu1ritter]

Jerry Miculek's video titled "Trigger Job" is a very complete description of how to polish the internals to obtain a very smooth double action pull. Those who have guessed it is just about spring changes haven't watched it. Jerry goes into much detail on how to get the DA pull to be smooth. He also states in the video that 8-9 pounds is about the lower limit for a S&W double action pull that is in anyway reliable. Jerry Kuhnhausen (who wrote the S&W gunsmithing bible) also states in his DVD "Gunsmithing the S&W J,K,L,N Frame Revolvers much the same about the lower limits of the DA pull. It is the smoothness of the pull that really matters, not so much the lower weight limit of the pull.

Both video's are excellent and it really doesn't take all that much mechanical skill to replicate the work that either of the gents do, just some patience and attention to detail. It also does not require jigs to maintain any angles to get the DA pull smooth and reasonable. Both gents go into detailed explanations.

Have you ever tried shooting double action timed and rapid fire at 25 yards? That's a whole new ballgame to just keep it in the black. I shot Bullseye for over 50 years and using a revolver was difficult to say the least.

Stu

 

[PALADIN85020]

Have you ever tried shooting double action timed and rapid fire at 25 yards? That's a whole new ballgame to just keep it in the black. I shot Bullseye for over 50 years and using a revolver was difficult to say the least.

Stu

That's why this was invented!

John

 

[pawngal]

I've never shot Bullseye matches but I know I can shoot 5 rounds in 10 seconds single action with a M19 or M66. Both guns do have Herrett grips,
the 19 has the style with the thumb rest, the 66 has the standard Shooting Stars. Practice, Practice

 

[gwpercle]

Clark Custom Guns has been know to do a nice target trigger job. Princeton, Louisiana.
The one they did for me is so much better than anything I did it isn't even funny.
I shot NRA Bullseye matches actively for about 12 years , those folks are target trigger pro's .
Gary

 

[RKmesa]

That's why this was invented!

John

John:

All these years of collecting S&Ws and now I learn that they make something other than revolvers??? Who'd a thunk it?

BTW - that is a beautiful Model 52 - and I guess it's kind of revolver-ish since it shoots a 38 Special!

 

[stu1ritter]

That's why this was invented!

John

Indeed. THAT is a competition pistol capable of winning matches.
Most folks I knew who attempted to shoot bullseye with a revolver shot
it single action. I don't think I ever met anyone who shot bullseye DA.
No doubt, there have been, but they would be the exception rather than the rule.

Stu

 

[bountyhunter]

Isn't 2700 shot with a revolver generally done in single action mode? Thus the wide hammer spur and ribbed wide trigger on the target guns (17, 14 & 25).

Nothing wrong with wanting a light double action pull (although doubtful you'd get reliable ignition with 4.5# pull), but not really necessary for the OP's intended purpose. It's pretty easy to safely get into the 2.5# - 3# range single action pull, without going too light in D/A, with just spring changes.

Adios,

Pizza Bob

That's been my experience as well. You want to do polishing on the relevant surfaces, you NEVER want to change engagemenet angles on hammer/trigger faces. Also change to lighter springs, the Wolff RP mainsprings work well.

 

[bountyhunter]

For those who claim a 4 lb DA trigger job, ask them how long that will last? Any trigger that light will not last and be reliable. 6-8 lbs id about the best you can get and have it reliable over the long haul.

APEX makes some reduced mass hammers that (allegedly) will yield a 4# DA pull with reliable ignition.

Smith & Wesson Revolvers

 

[zanemoseley]

Well I spoke with Nelson for about 10 minutes this evening. Its obvious he knows his stuff inside and out. He does seems a bit opinionated and will talk over you some however he is pleasant to talk to, I can see how a few people have had an issue with him over the years. I'm going to watch the Miculek DVD since my buddy already has it, if I don't feel 100% comfortable with the task it will go to Nelson.

 

[lrrifleman]

@zane,

I can respect your wanting to do your own trigger job. HOWEVER, you need to subscribe to the teachings of Murphy. Even though you are paying attention, you have to accept the reality that the first few times, you are going to mess up. Can I presume that your Model 19 is an older one, probably with a case hardened hammer and trigger? Consider the possibility that you mess up the sear surfaces ... and your 'smith of choice can't correct your mistakes ... how much will the replacement parts cost on top of his labor? I would strongly suggest that you consider having a pro do your trigger job to begin with, it could be less expensive!

 

[zanemoseley]

Good points.

 

[Tom_R]

This is the man you should send your Smith and Wesson to if you need trigger work.

Denny Reichard, aka Rolling Thunder.

This video is outstanding for its entertainment factor.

Tuning a S&W 686 .357 Magnum - YouTube

 

[Jalopiejoe]

Those reviews are complete and utter BS. My guess is guys with taurus revolvers and the like were mad because he turned down their work.

I was just in Nelsons shop last Friday and he is a great guy. With great customer service. I lived in the Phoenix area for 20 years and he is the man for smith revolvers and he shoots target pistol competitively as well so he knows how to work one.

He is working on my 2d and 3d smith this month. So he will have worked on all of mine and I cannot say enough good things about him as a person and as a craftsman.

That's my real life experience from last week, Friday June 16th. Spent about an hour talking with him.

I just picked up my 617 from Nelson Ford and it's as smooth as butter!
I very much like talking with Nelson and love his stories but if I was a Liberal it probably wouldn't go as well.
I like him and he damn sure knows what he is doing!