Well that's what you do to fire one..
Want some cheese to go with the whine..
See where you didn't quote that the thing broke parts several times.....
No wine, just scotch for me please.....
WHICH IS MORE EFFECTIVE FOR CARRY,25ACP OR 22 CALIBER
- Thread starter NEURON
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See where you didn't quote that the thing broke parts several times.....
No wine, just scotch for me please.....
Probably....
The .22 has been so popular as a civilian gun it doesn't surprise me that a LOT of people have been shot by them. It would be good to know the ratio of shots:kills with the .22 and the .25 acp.
The .22 has been so popular as a civilian gun it doesn't surprise me that a LOT of people have been shot by them. It would be good to know the ratio of shots:kills with the .22 and the .25 acp.
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Some gunwriters just love to pick on the .25 acp and compare 2" 25
data to 22 data from a 6" revolver barrel. In guns of the same size,
like small autos with barrels of 2" or slightly greater length there is no
comparison. The 25 easily wins. One reason is that the 25 is loaded
with fast burning pistol powder while the optimal barrel length for
22 ammo is around 18-20". Reliability of feeding and ignition favors
the 25 and the standard 50 gr fmj gives better penetration than the
22 loads. Despite the stories of failures there have been countless
instances of one shot kills with the 25 acp with it's standard 50 gr
bullet.
data to 22 data from a 6" revolver barrel. In guns of the same size,
like small autos with barrels of 2" or slightly greater length there is no
comparison. The 25 easily wins. One reason is that the 25 is loaded
with fast burning pistol powder while the optimal barrel length for
22 ammo is around 18-20". Reliability of feeding and ignition favors
the 25 and the standard 50 gr fmj gives better penetration than the
22 loads. Despite the stories of failures there have been countless
instances of one shot kills with the 25 acp with it's standard 50 gr
bullet.
The point of a SD gun is not to kill the other guy, it is to keep the other guy from killing you. Both are lethal. Neither is quickly lethal without a CNS hit. Both have many instances of people being wounded with them, even fatally wounded, and not realizing they had been hit until hours later. You can afford to shoot a .22lr more so maybe you can get better with it, but IMHO the .25 is more reliable. You pay your money and you take your chances.
Arik
Member
That's deceiving. If 22 is the most used then it will have the most effectiveness on paper. It can be done in reverse too. If one shot resulted in one kill from a 25acp one could say that the 25acp is 100% one shot stop.
As either caliber is unlikely to physically compel an assailant to stop, you will be dependent on psychology for a stop.
The fact that you have a gun, and the assailant sees you have a gun, the more likely they are to decide to stop. Size matters. A big gun will have more deterrent than a small gun. I've never seen a big .25.
If we are comparing similar size guns - a 22 mag the size of a .25 - I believe it will come down to flash/bang affect to achieve a stop. As I have never shot either, I don't know which would be louder/flashier. I would guess the little .22 mag, as it will have extra powder to burn beyond the short barrel.
Can anyone speak from experience on the comparative flash/bang from these two?
The fact that you have a gun, and the assailant sees you have a gun, the more likely they are to decide to stop. Size matters. A big gun will have more deterrent than a small gun. I've never seen a big .25.
If we are comparing similar size guns - a 22 mag the size of a .25 - I believe it will come down to flash/bang affect to achieve a stop. As I have never shot either, I don't know which would be louder/flashier. I would guess the little .22 mag, as it will have extra powder to burn beyond the short barrel.
Can anyone speak from experience on the comparative flash/bang from these two?
ChattanoogaPhil
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.22 magnum.
If nothing else, the noise will scare the bad guy away.
If nothing else, the noise will scare the bad guy away.
I used to own a Beretta .25 Jetfire, with the flip up barrel. It was a neat pistol, but the slide would eat a hole in the web of your shooting hand. The "flash/bang" from it was not too terrible, but back in the day there were few choices for ammo. I moved it around in the safe so much that i finally sold it to get it out of the way.
Now I own, and carry, one of the little NAA revolvers in .22 magnum. It's is very seldom the only weapon I have on me, but sometimes it is. I do know that the report from it is quite a bit louder than the .25 was, and I can actually hit with it better. However, they do take some practice to hit anything beyond say, 15'-20'. I can also tell you that in my "backyard water jug" testing, the magnum comes out on top of the .25 caliber. At least feel like I am armed when it's in my pocket. But usually there is a .38 or 9 mm around just for backup.
Now I own, and carry, one of the little NAA revolvers in .22 magnum. It's is very seldom the only weapon I have on me, but sometimes it is. I do know that the report from it is quite a bit louder than the .25 was, and I can actually hit with it better. However, they do take some practice to hit anything beyond say, 15'-20'. I can also tell you that in my "backyard water jug" testing, the magnum comes out on top of the .25 caliber. At least feel like I am armed when it's in my pocket. But usually there is a .38 or 9 mm around just for backup.
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Lee's Landing Billy
Member
In the past 5 years we have filled a quart jar with .22 that did not ignite, all with great rim crushes. Not one .25.
bigggbbruce
Member
The 22 Mag has my vote but try cocking a SA small revolver .
Plus the one I had was back three times for failing parts....
There ya' go.. and some extra cheese for the extra whine..
Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Gamecock!!! Never fired either?? Get in your vehicle and come to Horry County we'll fix that lack of experience. For what it's worth the .22 mag is louder. Please don't count on volume to save your life.
I have & carry a S&W 353 22mag.Before I got this talked to a Dr.that has had just about everything come his way...told me he had a guy killed with a 22mag.pistol....said when he opened him up he was all torn up inside!He said the 22mag is a "nasty:round! Didn't Bill Jordan like the 22mag.pistol??
Jim
Jim
Aticus
Member
Yep, looks like we got another caliber war going! Keep up the good work gang. I'm enjoying the **** out of this. 
KarmannGhia
Member
I'm fine with either caliber (as my third gun).
I have a NAA 22Mag and 22LR cyl. To me its little more thana loud toy . I will carry my Beretta 950 . I can empty the Beretta By time you get off a couple of the 22 mags . That are noise and flash in these little pistols. The 25 is a winner in short barrel . NAA own site will show 22LR or mag doesn't start getting up to speed till 4" or more barrel. I never shot a person with my 25 .But did send a want to be robber running one night. He saw gun(25 Beretta) and ran .
25 in the gell has gone 16" meets FBI 12 to 18 inches and lot more than 22 from same size pistol. Make mine 25 I have 3 Beretta's and a Bauer in 25acp. Have 2 Beretta's in 22LR. I will carry the 25 but not the 22's .
Must be some reason 25 still popular after a 100 yrs
Buy a quality 25 and that will alone increase FPS over the cheap Sat. specials
25 in the gell has gone 16" meets FBI 12 to 18 inches and lot more than 22 from same size pistol. Make mine 25 I have 3 Beretta's and a Bauer in 25acp. Have 2 Beretta's in 22LR. I will carry the 25 but not the 22's .
Must be some reason 25 still popular after a 100 yrs
Buy a quality 25 and that will alone increase FPS over the cheap Sat. specials
Point of information - I have been reliably informed, but have not seen the x-ray data to prove it, that a .22 round hit inside the body cavity tends to ounce around and tear up a lot of tissue. Thus, the fact that .22s are deadly just for that reason alone. And the LEO/firearms expert who taught me these things a long time ago said that more people were killed with .22s each year than anything else. I don't know where the data is to prove that but he insisted it was true.
What I do know is that having a gun in capable hands is far more important than caliber. If you choose to carry a gun then you also have to choose to be reasonably adept at its use and be willing to use it.
Nobody likes to be shot so if you can cause an aggressor to cease and desist when he sees your weapon you've accomplished your task, a no-shot-stop.
Statistics are sometimes hard to come by. A gentlemen named Greg Ellifritz spent a considerable amount of time compiling some of these types of numbers and he published his data on line in 2011. Mr. Ellifritz is a police officer and instructor himself. His conclusion is:
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
(c) 2011 Greg Ellifritz and Buckeye Firearms Association
I carried a Beretta 950BS (aka Jetfire) for 20 years. The one thing I liked least about it was not caliber; it was being single action. It could be carried cocked and locked but I personally dislike that carry, especially in my pocket, so I routinely practiced drawing it out of various pockets and getting that hammer back. I also have an NAA 5 shot vest pocket revolver and that one is even harder to cock the hammer - so it was with great delight that I acquired a S&W M642, just as easy to carry, bigger caliber, fine, more importantly it's double action. Any gun is better than no gun, but any gun you can get into action fast and shoot well is the key to a successful defensive situation. So, .22 LR, .22 WMR, .25 ACP, it's not that big a deal in the overall scope of the data.
As for this:
I disagree. Those tiny guns might be obsolete for various reasons but, then again, a tiny package like that, a disappearing gun in the 21st century of mostly casual clothes and concealed carry, Precision Small Arms still makes them and they're gorgeous, not cheap, and have a definite place in the arsenal of concealed carry.
Home Base
What I do know is that having a gun in capable hands is far more important than caliber. If you choose to carry a gun then you also have to choose to be reasonably adept at its use and be willing to use it.
Nobody likes to be shot so if you can cause an aggressor to cease and desist when he sees your weapon you've accomplished your task, a no-shot-stop.
Statistics are sometimes hard to come by. A gentlemen named Greg Ellifritz spent a considerable amount of time compiling some of these types of numbers and he published his data on line in 2011. Mr. Ellifritz is a police officer and instructor himself. His conclusion is:
An Alternate Look at Handgun Stopping Power | Buckeye Firearms Association
(c) 2011 Greg Ellifritz and Buckeye Firearms Association
I carried a Beretta 950BS (aka Jetfire) for 20 years. The one thing I liked least about it was not caliber; it was being single action. It could be carried cocked and locked but I personally dislike that carry, especially in my pocket, so I routinely practiced drawing it out of various pockets and getting that hammer back. I also have an NAA 5 shot vest pocket revolver and that one is even harder to cock the hammer - so it was with great delight that I acquired a S&W M642, just as easy to carry, bigger caliber, fine, more importantly it's double action. Any gun is better than no gun, but any gun you can get into action fast and shoot well is the key to a successful defensive situation. So, .22 LR, .22 WMR, .25 ACP, it's not that big a deal in the overall scope of the data.
As for this:
I disagree. Those tiny guns might be obsolete for various reasons but, then again, a tiny package like that, a disappearing gun in the 21st century of mostly casual clothes and concealed carry, Precision Small Arms still makes them and they're gorgeous, not cheap, and have a definite place in the arsenal of concealed carry.
Home Base
bigggbbruce
Member
Toy..
I have done tests 22Mag on gallons of water backed with plywood. Ran out of jugs.
5 ft. 2 water jugs with considerable hydashock and through the 3/8 plywood. Wanna play..??
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Non sequitur. Unless the OP is an assassin.
Funny. It's not a non sequitur, however. A non sequitur is a conclusion or statement that does not logically follow from the previous argument or statement. The statement does logically follow - what it lacks is proof and I admit to a lack of proof. Therefore it is speculatio (if you like Latin) or, worse, notional or whimsical.
But, because this is friendly and educational, learn me this, Gamecock - what's OP stand for? I understand "assassin".
You can PM me if you don't want to mess with the thread. 
This ^ ^ ^
Once you get below a Glock 26 sized pistol, all you're carrying is a close up contact fire in a clinch gun anyway. Nobody with a Keltec .380 or a NAA is going to effect a two handed combat stance and fire rounds at 10 yards . . .
Springfeildkid585
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P516 7.5" Pistol with SB15 Pistol Stabilizing Brace
Can we count this as a .22? I mean it's only 3 thousandths of an inch.
Can we count this as a .22? I mean it's only 3 thousandths of an inch.
stantheman86
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I carry either of my Beretta Bobcats as my "around town" guns, I have one each in .22 and .25. The .25 sees a lot more carry than the .22. I also have a .22 LR NAA Mini revolver. ALL of these are contact range "get off me" guns.
The .25 Bobcat is reliable, it will go bang 9 times and odds are if I have to use it I'll be emptying the mag into a bad guys gut or face, and hopefully be able to get away.
The .22 works well with Stingers, it's a .22 but I still wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of a Stinger to the head.
The NAA is hard to cock but the cocking would be aided by being stabilized, when it's buried 4 inches into an assailants belly with a Velocitor being fired. These are the true definitions of "belly guns".
The .25 Beretta also makes a good back up gun, if my .38 snub or other main carry gun is empty, then things took a serious turn for the worse and 9 rounds of .25 is probably a better option than trying to reload an empty .38.
Needless to say if someone kicks my door in at 4am I won't be reaching for my .25......
The .25 Bobcat is reliable, it will go bang 9 times and odds are if I have to use it I'll be emptying the mag into a bad guys gut or face, and hopefully be able to get away.
The .22 works well with Stingers, it's a .22 but I still wouldn't want to be on the recieving end of a Stinger to the head.
The NAA is hard to cock but the cocking would be aided by being stabilized, when it's buried 4 inches into an assailants belly with a Velocitor being fired. These are the true definitions of "belly guns".
The .25 Beretta also makes a good back up gun, if my .38 snub or other main carry gun is empty, then things took a serious turn for the worse and 9 rounds of .25 is probably a better option than trying to reload an empty .38.
Needless to say if someone kicks my door in at 4am I won't be reaching for my .25......
texmex
Member
A double tap with a 25 is the same as a single shot from a 50, right?
A double tap from a 22 Magnum must equal a 44 Magnum according to the math. Can't wait to try that 22 Mag twice = 44 Mag out on my next bear hunt or that 25 twice = 50 on Cape Buffalo. It should make a very interesting video right up to the part where I get killed.
A double tap from a 22 Magnum must equal a 44 Magnum according to the math. Can't wait to try that 22 Mag twice = 44 Mag out on my next bear hunt or that 25 twice = 50 on Cape Buffalo. It should make a very interesting video right up to the part where I get killed.
Shootbrownelk
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I can't remember ever having a misfire with a .22 magnum. .22 LR, yes.
Speer and Hornady make self-defense .22 magnum rounds that perform pretty well in ballistic gelatin anyway. I have a back-up revolver in .22 magnum. It's always with me.
Speer and Hornady make self-defense .22 magnum rounds that perform pretty well in ballistic gelatin anyway. I have a back-up revolver in .22 magnum. It's always with me.
Shootbrownelk
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They're equal in bullet diameter, but certainly not in powder capacity....your sarcasm was not lost on me Tex.
Would one .25 = one 000 buck pellet ?
one .22mag = one #4 shot pellet?
Or something like that?????????????
one .22mag = one #4 shot pellet?
Or something like that?????????????
stantheman86
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Some quick notes-
.25 gets much of it's bad rep from the cheap pot metal jam o matics that have been popular for over 100 years, even today you can buy a piece of junk Jimenez or Raven .25 for $80 new at a gun show, with a bore that's probably oversized and causes a lot of lost velocity. Even the old junk .22 revolvers had b/c gaps of like .020 , can't get much velocity out of that.
.22 has killed more people than any other because there are so many millions of various .22's all over the world, from complete junk river gun Suicide Special .22 pocket revolvers to cheap auto pistols and rifles, single shots, etc. Even people who don't like guns often have grand paps old .22 rifle rusting away in the closet. Back in the "day" people didn't care as much about stopping power and you could buy a cheap H&R or Iver Johnson .22 pocket revolver for $3 at the hardware store and it was good enough.
You want to talk about a real loser of a defense cartridge, talk about .32 S&W Short. That's basically a cap gun that fires what passes for a bullet, I had some old S&W .32 short breaktops and I was shooting at a poly plastic spinner target, and bullets were bouncing off of it and hitting the barn behind me. .22 LR's and .25 easily punch through the same target. The .32 Short of old could not have been much hotter, even in the BP loading. I think if someone had a heavy coat on it would stop a .32 Short. A guy tried to kill his wife with one and the bullets bounced off her skull hardly injuring her except for surface wounds.......now that's awkward
Good modern .22 LR that's expensive (read the CCI stuff that comes in the plastic boxes) that costs as much as 9mm is very reliable, and .22 Stinger and Velocitor WILL ruin someone's day. Maybe not a manstopper but no one wants pieces of metal punching into their organs or brain. I have a 4" NAA Mini Master and I believe it's the minimum barrel length to get any advantage out of .22 WMR.
That said I've seen insurgents take hits from 5.56 and run behind buildings, we send our troops into combat armed with varmint rifles......but that's a whole different debate.....and I blame the NATO imposed stabilizing rod that prevents the bullet from tumbling in tissue for that......
Tell that 13 year old kid who killed a burglar by emptying a mag of .22 from a 10/22 into him, that .22 is no good.......now that kid is my kind of American
.25 gets much of it's bad rep from the cheap pot metal jam o matics that have been popular for over 100 years, even today you can buy a piece of junk Jimenez or Raven .25 for $80 new at a gun show, with a bore that's probably oversized and causes a lot of lost velocity. Even the old junk .22 revolvers had b/c gaps of like .020 , can't get much velocity out of that.
.22 has killed more people than any other because there are so many millions of various .22's all over the world, from complete junk river gun Suicide Special .22 pocket revolvers to cheap auto pistols and rifles, single shots, etc. Even people who don't like guns often have grand paps old .22 rifle rusting away in the closet. Back in the "day" people didn't care as much about stopping power and you could buy a cheap H&R or Iver Johnson .22 pocket revolver for $3 at the hardware store and it was good enough.
You want to talk about a real loser of a defense cartridge, talk about .32 S&W Short. That's basically a cap gun that fires what passes for a bullet, I had some old S&W .32 short breaktops and I was shooting at a poly plastic spinner target, and bullets were bouncing off of it and hitting the barn behind me. .22 LR's and .25 easily punch through the same target. The .32 Short of old could not have been much hotter, even in the BP loading. I think if someone had a heavy coat on it would stop a .32 Short. A guy tried to kill his wife with one and the bullets bounced off her skull hardly injuring her except for surface wounds.......now that's awkward
Good modern .22 LR that's expensive (read the CCI stuff that comes in the plastic boxes) that costs as much as 9mm is very reliable, and .22 Stinger and Velocitor WILL ruin someone's day. Maybe not a manstopper but no one wants pieces of metal punching into their organs or brain. I have a 4" NAA Mini Master and I believe it's the minimum barrel length to get any advantage out of .22 WMR.
That said I've seen insurgents take hits from 5.56 and run behind buildings, we send our troops into combat armed with varmint rifles......but that's a whole different debate.....and I blame the NATO imposed stabilizing rod that prevents the bullet from tumbling in tissue for that......
Tell that 13 year old kid who killed a burglar by emptying a mag of .22 from a 10/22 into him, that .22 is no good.......now that kid is my kind of American
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