Who likes Berettas?

PALADIN85020 said:
I really don't LIKE this one. It's basically only a double-stack P.38, and I think 9mm hardball is a pathetic round to stick our troops with in place of .45 ACP.
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I'm with you PALADIN. I don't care for the M9 either, especially not in 9mm. However, there is one quality that makes it better than many guns, super reliable.

I have seen many of these in action. While I'm sure it's happened, I have yet to see one malfunction. At the moment, it's the only semi-auto pistol in my personal experience that has this record. I may not like the DA/SA action (especially for new shooters), I may not like the 9mm, but I love reliable. Functional reliability is the number one value in a defensive pistol. If it don't work, the caliber and action matter not.

The M9 spends most of its time in a holster. As such it gets dragged through the mud, dirt and dust. This is always detrimental to pistol operation. And yet, the M9 chugs along. It was chosen because 9mm is a NATO round, but it won because of reliability.

No, I don't like the M9, but neither do I feel bad for our troops.
 
Rastoff said:
I have seen many of these in action. While I'm sure it's happened, I have yet to see one malfunction.
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I HAVE seen an M9/92FS malfunction under almost ideal conditions: in an indoor range here in Phoenix. It failed to chamber a round fully, leaving the shooter, who had the berth next to me, to say "What the hell?"

Turns out it was lack of lubrication. I had some gun oil in my range bag. We field stripped it, applied some lube to the rails and along the hammer path on the slide, and it then continued to work.

This did not help my assessment of the pistol at all. Like any mechanical device, it's not perfect, and needs to be maintained properly. Without a source of lube, in the field, I would not be comfortable with it.

John
 
Are you kidding? I'm always looking for an excuse to post a pic of:

Wait for it...

THE MIGHTY BOBCAT!

Oh, and my blued bobcat, and my 92FS...

oops, can't find a pic of the older, blued Bobcat. Wish I could find one of those single-stack 85's at a decent price.
 

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My Berrettas are my M9 and my PX4 in 45 ACP. I have to be honest I cannot decide which one I prefer to shoot...
 
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Marshwheeling said:
Without a source of lube, in the field, which gun(s) would you be comfortable with?
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A GI 1911A1, or (I hate to say this) a Glock, preferably a Model 21. Both are proven performers in extreme conditions. The M9 magazine, in particular, has had a lot of troubles in desert conditions, aside from what I observed in a rather sterile environment. H&K's USP series are also uber-reliable. I own a USP, USP compact, and a Mark 23 SOCOM; all work very nicely with a minimum of lube. The H&K P7 is no slouch, either. Never had a malfunction with any of these; I carried a 1911A1 in the service, shot it extensively, and felt very comfortable with it. Plus, I could detail strip it with no tools - not possible with the complex M9.

John
 
A friend of a friend is a Cleveland transit cop. He carries a 96D. The ONLY handgun I've ever seen with a worse trigger pull was a friend's Colt All American 2000. A rougher, grittier trigger I can't recall. It and the 92 have grips far too big, and trigger reaches far too long for me.

I wouldn't mind having an M1934 or an M1951 as toys, not for any serious purpose.

I understand their shotguns are second to none.
 
I have never cared much for Beretta pistols, though I do have a 92F lying around that I shot for a while to see what I thought of it. I have big enough hands that the size of the grip/trigger reach didn't bother me, but the sights are crude and (owing to the design of the slide) there is not much you can do about them that doesn't end up looking trashy.

Beretta shotguns are another matter entirely. Much is made about English doubles, and in the better makes the workmanship undeniably is fabulous. That said, for considerably less money I believe an SO5 Beretta will keep right up. Based on what little I know, for my own uses, I wouldn't pass up an SO5 for anything else I can think of - if I could afford one. :eek: :D
 
I recently picked up a 96D Ohio State Trooper model. Got a great deal on it. The DAO trigger is horrible, but it is fun to shoot at the range, and I have always thought they were great looking guns.

image_zps5cc692af.jpg


image_zps42c0d8be.jpg
 
Rastoff said:
I'm with you PALADIN. I don't care for the M9 either, especially not in 9mm. However, there is one quality that makes it better than many guns, super reliable.

I have seen many of these in action. While I'm sure it's happened, I have yet to see one malfunction. At the moment, it's the only semi-auto pistol in my personal experience that has this record. I may not like the DA/SA action (especially for new shooters), I may not like the 9mm, but I love reliable. Functional reliability is the number one value in a defensive pistol. If it don't work, the caliber and action matter not.

The M9 spends most of its time in a holster. As such it gets dragged through the mud, dirt and dust. This is always detrimental to pistol operation. And yet, the M9 chugs along. It was chosen because 9mm is a NATO round, but it won because of reliability.

No, I don't like the M9, but neither do I feel bad for our troops.
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From Beretta's website:
BERETTA U.S.A. RELIABILITY AND DURABILITY STATISTICS FOR THE BERETTA 9mm PISTOL.
• The average reliability of all M9 pistols tested at Beretta U.S.A. is 17,500 rounds without a stoppage.
• During one test of twelve pistols fired at Beretta U.S.A. before Army supervision, Beretta-made M9 pistols shot 168,000 rounds without a single malfunction.
• The Beretta 9mm pistol was the most reliable of all pistols tested in the 1984 competition which resulted in the award of the M9 contract to Beretta.
• Two-thirds of all M9 pistols endurance tested at Beretta U.S.A. fired 5,000 rounds without a single malfunction or, at most, with only one malfunction.
• The average durability of Beretta M9 slides is over 35,000 rounds, the point at which U.S. Army testing ceases.
• The average durability of M9 frames is over 30,000 rounds. The average durability of M9 locking blocks is 22,000 rounds.
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I understand what has been said about the M9 requiring proper lubrication. But that is how it was designed. It is a mechanical piece of equipment and requires maintenance just like the M16, Humvee, M1 Abrams, etc. If you ran your Humvee dry of lubrication and it locked up would you blame the equipment or the operator who failed to maintain it?

GAO report on the M9:

http://archive.gao.gov/d4t4/130439.pdf

http://www.gao.gov/assets/110/102286.pdf

With regards to poor performance of mag in the desert I believe those were cheap 3rd party mags. It is my understanding that the issue has been resolved.
 
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My Favorite Beretta

Here is a picture of my favorite Beretta, the Model 38/42. It even has the Beretta Model 318 is the side holster of the paratrooper drop bag.
 

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Thanks to this thread, I joined the club. Thanks Brad! ;)

There are batch of police trade 8040Ds (DAO .40 Cougar) showing up on the market now. I got his one for under $300 including shipping & FFL transfer.

Before:



After a little Goo Gone and a little work with a toothbrush :



It is a work in progress. Most come w/ a least two mags. (11 + 1 capacity)

Charles
 
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I used to watch that show all the time. I especially liked the interaction between Robert Blake and the bird. Oh wait! You're talking about the pistol, never mind. :rolleyes:
 
okay, now you fellas have gone and done it! I had a 92FS and a PX4 SubCompact and sold them to start my S&W all metal collection. Now you're making me regret that decision (selling Berettas not buying S&Ws). So I am going to have to find a PX4 Storm Compact in 40S&W. I have large hands and the SubCompact was just too small. They both were great to shoot.


9mm subcompact PX4 Storm
 
I guess I've been too busy shooting my 92 FS to take a picture of it. I would give up my three striker fired guns before giving up the 92. I like the double action first shot, it's main use is not for target shooting. It's my bedside gun, and I want an effort to be involved in the first shot. I've been shooting for many decades, but I'm no Audie Murphy - a little extra trigger weight is a good thing for me. I know many people with a lot more experience than me say that using a single action 1911, or one of the modified triggers people are so fond of on Glocks and M&P's is a matter of training; but for me, I'll stick with what works for my use.

I wish Beretta would start making the Elite series, or the Brigadier model again so I could pick one up. I don't think they're better than the regular 92, I'd just like to have one, and used prices on them have skyrocketed.

I also have a Beretta Silver Onyx 28 gauge O/U; it works well, but I hardly ever shoot a shotgun anymore.
 
I've had more than a passing fancy with the Beretta, owned a few 92s an 84BB, and a 1935. But my all time favorite is the wee 950 Jetfire! There's no more reliable, or accurate .25 out there!
And there was a guy who used to sell 15 round extended mags for then, guess what THEY WORK!
I need to get another 92, good bye Glock.
Dale
 
PALADIN85020 said:
Plus, I could detail strip it with no tools - not possible with the complex M9.

John
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No one is a bigger fan of the 1911 than I, but detail strip it with no tools? How do you get the grips off? The main spring housing out? Field strip, yes, but I'm having a hard time with a detail strip. For that matter, I don't know of any pistol that can be detail stripped without at least a couple tools.

For field stripping, the M9 is easier than a 1911. Not much, but it is.
 
Rastoff said:
No one is a bigger fan of the 1911 than I, but detail strip it with no tools? How do you get the grips off? The main spring housing out? Field strip, yes, but I'm having a hard time with a detail strip. .
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For grip screws, use one of the ends of the three prong trigger sring. For removing the mainspring housing, use the drift pin built into the end of the hammer strut. Browning made them that way on purpose. You can detail strip the 1911 just using the parts as they come off the gun as tools to remove the rest.
 
Cyrano said:
For grip screws, use one of the ends of the three prong trigger sring. For removing the mainspring housing, use the drift pin built into the end of the hammer strut. Browning made them that way on purpose. You can detail strip the 1911 just using the parts as they come off the gun as tools to remove the rest.
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I see. Most have Allen or Torx screws in the grips these days. Even so, I hadn't thought of the spring to remove slotted screws or the hammer strut to remove the main spring housing pin. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it can be done. Good call.

Of course, an ambi safety throws a hitch in all that.
 
The 1911 is its own toolbox...

Rastoff said:
No one is a bigger fan of the 1911 than I, but detail strip it with no tools? How do you get the grips off? The main spring housing out? Field strip, yes, but I'm having a hard time with a detail strip. For that matter, I don't know of any pistol that can be detail stripped without at least a couple tools.

For field stripping, the M9 is easier than a 1911. Not much, but it is.
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The grip screws on a standard M1911A1 have concave slots. The rim of a .45 ACP round fits this slot perfectly, by design.

The hammer strut, with the hammer attached, is also designed to punch out the retaining pin for the mainspring housing. Modern struts that are rectangular in cross-section cannot do this. They are easy enough to modify with a file so they will.

See this article I wrote to describe the whole procedure. No tools necessary. The 1911 was designed by John Browning to be its own toolbox. I once demonstrated this to my wife's grandfather on his kitchen table after a range session. He remarked that I took it down into so many parts I could make two pistols out of it!

John

The 1911 Pistol is its own toolbox
 
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I have a couple of them, but they don't seem to like me. My 92FS has an extractor issue, that needs to be fixed. I bought a 418 .25 (That damned Beretta.-M) and so far that's my opinion of it, too. I'm left handed, and it like to put brass right in my face, or down the collar of my shirt, with one case landing on and sticking to my collarbone. It doesn't feed so well either, but that may just need a little magazine tweaking. I'd like to have a 948 or something like the Jaguar.
 
Hapworth said:
...still can't abide the backwards safety, though. ;)
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The safety isn't backwards. In fact, it's not really a safety.

What you're referring to as the "safety" is really the safety-decocking lever. The 92FS (M9) cannot be carried in condition one (cocked and locked). So, the intended method of carry is with the hammer down and the safety off. Like this:
39954.jpg


The first trigger pull is double action.

The decocker should never be left in the down position; though some do. After firing a few rounds, the lever is moved down to decock and then immediately back up. This way it's safe and ready to fire.

If it were a regular safety, I'd agree with you, but it's not. The same goes for S&W 3rd gen guns too.
 
Rastoff said:
The safety isn't backwards. In fact, it's not really a safety.

What you're referring to as the "safety" is really the safety-decocking lever....
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I know -- I was making a 1911 fan's old joke. ;)

Excellent primer, however, on the 92FS/M9 safety-decocker.
 
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