Why do people care so much about trigger reset?

I've been shooting a couple of my Glocks lately and experimenting with shooting from the reset point. It is an interesting feature and does allow someone to shoot a little faster. I might get better with practice, but I have to consciously remember to hold the trigger back and them move it forward slightly to reset, not something I'm going to remember in a defense situation. It is good to know that the trigger resets pretty quick in case you short stoke it under stress.
 
Because most of us M&P fanboys (I guess you can lump me in) are converts from Glocks. Some of us still run Glocks and Glocks admittedly have a great reset, everything you'd want in a reset. I prefer my M&Ps over Glocks even with the worst reset in the world, but I do prefer a nice audible/tactile relatively short reset, makes follow up shots much easier.
 
timn8er said:
In most of the classes I've taken, they teach "shooting to the reset". Taking the shot, letting off the trigger till it reset, then taking the next shot as quickly as possible.
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And they should not be teaching this. It is a target shooting technique, not applicable to fighting. Rob Leatham has a nice discussion about this on youtube, and on a certain limited access forum there have been some pretty significant discussions of the silliness of worrying about the reset except to the extent that ones gets the trigger all the way back out.

If you were able to shoot a DA/SA pistol better for the purpose of the class, you have either shot a heck of a lot to overcome the serious flaws of that system, or your instructors were creating some major training scars that will be hard to undo.
 
I'll bet dollars to doughnuts that I can shoot faster by letting the trigger go completely, compared to someone who slowly lets the trigger out feeling for a click.

And when a gun is recoiling and jumping in your hand, I can have my finger off the trigger and be ready to fire again, while a reset-feeler must keep the trigger pulled back and wait for the gun to get back on target before they can let the trigger out to feel for the reset.

If I'm wrong I'd love to learn more.

When shooting, I pull the trigger through the take-up and hold it at the break.

Maybe the science is lost on me, but I don't see the point. Especially when I shoot dozens of different guns and each is unique.

If it means something to you guys, then have at it, but I don't get it.

.
 
Shooting to the reset......

I hope that person only ones OWN weapon. Because they arent going to take several weapons and have them reset the same. Once they get use to one weapons reset, they'll be lost on the next weapons reset.

So unless u shoot just one weapon. There is no point in shooting for the reset.

It's like getting use to the horsepower in a civic and then stomping on the gas in a Lamborghini. Obviously u'll be lost when the Lambo takes off and u won't have a clue what to do.
 
I have no idea why people care so much about re-set.

In a revolver, attempting this "parlor trick," also called "short-stroking" because the shooter does not permit the trigger to return to its fully forward position, will cause a failure to fire. The same thing can happen with "short-stroking" a DAO auto.

It is a matter of shooting one gun, or a small number of guns with similar triggers, having thousands upon thousands of high speed repetitions in order to create "muscle memory," and then still keeping your fingers crossed.

Re-set shooting (or short-stroking), i.e. not letting the trigger return to its full forward position is, for most of us, not a great advantage, but a potentially serious or dangerous disadvantage. Of course, most people who love the idea of short-stroking their Glocks and M&Ps do the majority of their shooting on a range and are not even in a hurry.

Thus, all of this baloney about re-set and having an audible click is just that - a bunch of baloney. It is a solution to a silly method of shooting for all but the most hardened professional match shooter or SEAL team or similar military operator (not civilian LE SWAT teams as they do not shoot enough) who fires a thousand or more rounds PER WEEK.

The last I checked, there are not too many people around who are faster than Rob Leatham and Jerry Miculek. Both do NOT short-stroke either the pistol or revolver. So, if you are as good as those two, then have at it. Otherwise, it is about as helpful as a full length guide rod in a 1911 (if you didn't get that reference, then how about this: about as helpful as "**** on a boar.")
 
Wow, I'm stunned at the responses I've seen here. At the time of this post there are 37 posts before me and only a couple of guys have it right.

I doubt I will even be noticing the reset, just pulling the trigger, letting it go, and pulling again.
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I took the name out of this post because I'm not meaning to look at the individual, but the entire set of folks here. This quote sums up what most are saying. If you follow this advice, especially in a self defense situation, you'll miss and then miss again. Why? Because of a lack of trigger control.

I've never heard the term "shooting to the reset" before. It is wrong too. You don't shoot to the reset, you simply press the trigger.

There are three "secrets" to shooting well. They're not actually secrets, but when you look at most shooters at the local range, you can tell they are secrets to them. Here they are:
  • Sight Alignment
  • Sight Picture
  • Trigger Control
Get these three things right and you'll hit your target every time.

Trigger reset is vital to trigger control.
  1. Press the trigger until you have a surprise break.
  2. Trap the trigger back.
  3. Control the trigger out until you hit the reset.
  4. Back to step one.

Slapping at the trigger, as most of you suggest, will pull the sights out of alignment and you'll miss. Control the trigger and you'll hit your target.

It's not about being slow. It's about control. At 15 yards I can put two shots within a hand span in the vitals of the bad guy in under 2.4 seconds. I use the reset every time. If you think it's slower then you're not doing it right. Dry practice is the key to learning this level of trigger control.
 
I used to ask the same question, until I got my Shield 9 and dropped in an Apex Sear. Faster and more effortless follow up shots, IMO. Nothing more, nothing less. Before my Shield I mostly shot my 92FS. Having a shorter reset helps me to maintain a SA trigger feel, while still carrying safely.

Again IMO, I would characterize the M&P's trigger pull as a SA pull as it does not pull the striker back before releasing. There is just some take up before that SA break. So why not eliminate that nonsensical take up, in a time of survival?
 
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Some people just look into things to much and make it harder than what it is....In a gunfight the last thing i want to worry about is a stupid trigger reset. Ill use the reset sometimes to play around when shooting paper and yes i shoot a little better but im slower. Under the gunfight situation youre not going to feel it or hear it, if anything your going to think you released it enough and pull your trigger to early and have no bang. Id like to hear a guy come out of a gun fight and say "O boy that trigger reset just saved my life!" not going to happen. YOU STICKING TO SIMPLE BASICS IS WHAT IS GOING TO GIVE YOU A CHANCE IN THE GUN FIGHT, NOT YOUR TRIGGER RESET.
 
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Trigger control ultimately means releasing the sear without moving the front sight -- or more accurately without moving the front sight OFF TARGET. Nothing wrong with front sight movement at 3 yards, just shoot fast and make the bad guy stop.

That said, there is more than one right answer. If you break the shot, hold the trigger back, release it until reset, and fire again, there is nothing wrong with this, but I will add the following:

When the gun goes bang and all that noise and force hits your senses if you are waiting for the reset you are going too slow because most people can't feel and hear the reset at the same time the gun is going bang so most people wait a fraction of a second after the bang and then release to reset. This is the biggest reason why I don't think a tactile and audible reset is important - you won't hear or feel it in a gun fight or when shooting very fast (which can also happen in a gun fight).

That is why I break the shot, and then as quickly as possible (while the gun is recoiling) I release the trigger and pull back on the trigger to the point of resistance, realign sights, and rinse and repeat. Of course with speed comes some compromise so if shooting fast I just try to track the front sight rather than carefully realign - typically distance to target dictates how much time is spent realigning sights before the next shot is broken. The thing that I do at the same speed regardless of distance is release the trigger while the gun is recoiling and reapplying pressure until the point of resistance is felt.

Remember, once the gun goes bang, you have no control over that projectile. All you can do is find the most effective way for you to prepare for the next shot. For me, the reset has very little to do with it, but I do prefer the 2013 M&P and GLOCK reset to the older M&P trigger because I know some people prefer it, and it doesn't hinder me either way.

To each their own. There are different schools of thought out there and if you train and practice a certain method you will become better with that method which is what we should be doing - safely becoming better with our weapons in the off chance we have to use those weapons to protect ourselves / families.
 
Rastoff- Well said. I agree with you 100%. I used to "slap the trigger". It appears to me that I have trained at the same place as you. Once I learned to 1) press the trigger until I get a surprise break, 2) trap the trigger, 3) release the trigger to reset, and then 4) press again my groups and speed improved considerably.

I agree that Miculek and Leatham have great success NOT using the reset, but for me it works. I have shot thousands of rounds with my five different handguns and have never short stroked a shot. Granted, this was not in a self defense situation, but most of my shooting is done under time pressure.

Different strokes for different folks, but there is nothing wrong with training to use the reset. For those of us who shoot that way, a tactile reset is very important. I, for one, am grateful that S&W recognizes that and has recently taken steps to improve reset in the M&P line.
 
Just another way.....

Just another way to say this gun is better than that gun. I figure if you practice with the firearm you intend to use for self or home defense if it hits the the fan you know what to expect. I wouldn't rely on ANY gun that I didn't know how it worked, least of all a semi-auto.
 
I have been shooting guns since 1953, spent twenty-two years in the military, qualified expert marksman on many different guns, and spent tours in Viet Nam. I never knew I had to worry about trigger reset until the internet told me recently that it was important.
 
Seriously, if trigger reset is a problem.

Just get a full auto and dont worry about the trigger reset or even having to keep pulling the trigger. It works much better than having ur life taken because u were worried about trigger reset.
 
Yes, always about preference. As one instructor told me, "if slapping that trigger is working for you, keep it up, but you can shoot better. "
 
Atticaz said:
The majority of these posts are hilarious. It's about preference.
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You are absolutely correct on this point. Shoot what you like and what you can shoot well.

The other point that is being made in this thread is that you are fooling yourself if you think trigger reset is going to make a difference when you are shooting in a SHTF situation. You may be great on the range but I believe the maxim that if you are shooting to protect your life you will be half as good as you are on the range. However, that means train and practice to make that 50% as good as it can be, just don't think that your range performance will be the same as your SD performance.

Again, I've never had to shoot to protect my life, but I spend at least as much time in dry practice drawing my gun from concealment, getting the front sight on target, and pulling the trigger as I do sending rounds down range. I believe perfecting this skill will be the major factor in determining the outcome of any gunfight I might be in, much more so than trying to shoot to the trigger reset.
 
To clarify, I do not 'slap' the trigger. You will not hit a target at 500 yards by slapping the trigger. You will not put 5 rounds into one hole at 100 yards by slapping the trigger. Agreed, slapping is bad!

I pull through the take-up to the point of trigger break and hold it there. Even on a double action revolver there is a marked increase in force necessary to break the trigger.

To me, this makes much more sense than taking the time necessary to feel the reset and risk short stroking the trigger mechanism.

I really think this discussion has run its course. There seems to be two views and there's room in this world for both.

Do whatever works for you, and practice it. Stay safe. ;)

.
 
So when someone is attacking me or shooting at me, I will take a couple of breaths and hold with a half breath and squeeze the trigger so it surprises me when it breaks, only allow the trigger to reach reset, take two breaths and hold on a half breath and squeeze the trigger again so it surprises me when it breaks again. Two shots center mass and one to the head. After all the caliber doesn't matter, only shot placement matters. Am I getting all of this right?
 
For most reset isn't something they are trained for or readily recognize. My first LE job was Sig 229 in 40 back in 1997. My teeth were cut on that pistol in MA. Move to NY and it's Glock country. Took me a VERY long time to get use to it but Glock has an excellent reset point that is readily felt and there is an audible click.

An example of how ingrained this becomes through muscle memory is me with my first M&P. I am making a Pro 9 and Pro 40 into comp guns. Pro 9 came in a few days ago. The lack of clear reset on the M&P has me fishing for it....driving me crazy. Love the gun and cant wait to get a few thousand rounds down it.

If you use it enough to develop the muscle memory you sure will notice when it is not there.
 
Biscut said:
For most reset isn't something they are trained for or readily recognize. My first LE job was Sig 229 in 40 back in 1997. My teeth were cut on that pistol in MA. Move to NY and it's Glock country. Took me a VERY long time to get use to it but Glock has an excellent reset point that is readily felt and there is an audible click.

An example of how ingrained this becomes through muscle memory is me with my first M&P. I am making a Pro 9 and Pro 40 into comp guns. Pro 9 came in a few days ago. The lack of clear reset on the M&P has me fishing for it....driving me crazy. Love the gun and cant wait to get a few thousand rounds down it.

If you use it enough to develop the muscle memory you sure will notice when it is not there.
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Do you remember doing this while someone was shooting at you and you were shooting back? I read where LEOs fire 137 rounds at a guy, hit him three times, and he survived. Most LEOs can't tell you how many rounds they fired, let alone when the trigger reset in a shots fired incident.
 
LimaCharlie said:
Do you remember doing this while someone was shooting at you and you were shooting back? I read where LEOs fire 137 rounds at a guy, hit him three times, and he survived. Most LEOs can't tell you how many rounds they fired, let alone when the trigger reset in a shots fired incident.
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This is why we hear of terrible shootings from cops all the time; poor trigger control. They are doing exactly what most are suggesting here, just pulling the trigger because they are panicking. It's the "spray and pray" mentality.
 
LimaCharlie said:
Do you remember doing this while someone was shooting at you and you were shooting back? I read where LEOs fire 137 rounds at a guy, hit him three times, and he survived. Most LEOs can't tell you how many rounds they fired, let alone when the trigger reset in a shots fired incident.
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They shot 137 rounds and only hit him 3 times.

So much for shooting for the trigger reset huh. :D
 
One more thing...

Reset is only part of the equation. It's about trigger control. You do not "shoot to the reset". The above example is a perfect one of truly poor trigger control.
 
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