Why do S&W pistols have less than stellar triggers?

[Fat B]

It makes me wonder why S&W doesn't listen to the public concerning the triggers on the three poly pistol lines. In doing my research and handling the sigma, people hate the trigger. Too long, too much pressure to pull, etc... I passed up a sigma for the SD for that exact reason.

My SD doesn't have the best trigger and I bought an apex kit (yet to be installed) to help with the problem.

The M&P pistols have some of the same concerns and I hear alot of the same tune. The trigger is good but it can be improved. Now the M&P has a variety of Apex kits to help with this probem but then your spending an extra $100 on top of the price of the gun to get the trigger how you want it.

I know the argument of designed for police use and mimicing the feel of a revolver. But with as many people complaining about the triggers on S&W poly pistols, you'd think S&W would be able to offer it's own kit for a certain price or try to improve it's existing design.

Am I missing something or is S&W missing an opportunity to make a couple bucks selling trigger kits for it's own pistols? Maybe like a car dealership offering the performance brake package or something along those line.

Does it seem like S&W is ignoring the whole question?

 

[machz1]

its called "mass produced", "keeping costs low" and meeting state requirements for safety in regards to pull force, length of travel,etc,etc.

 

[Jim H]

For every shooter that feels their trigger can be "improved" there are dozens, if not hundreds, who feel their trigger is OK. What we hear on this Forum (and others) represents a very vocal, but small fraction of gun owners. So I'm sure that S&W sees nothing "wrong" with their triggers, and therefore feels no need to offer kits to "improve" the triggers.

They do have a Performance Center that offers modified versions of their standard guns, and they can quote you a price for almost any "improvement" that you want as long as it does not sacrifice safety, functionality or reliability.

 

[g_conway]

For every intended purpose the gun was designed for, the trigger is just fine, with the exception of a few rare reported instances. The M&P was not designed as a "target" gun, it's a production quality tool.

I bought the M&P because I like all of its features and it met all of my requirements. Because I also wanted to "target" shoot, I put the APEX DCAEK and RAM into it to improve that ability, not to "fix a problem."

 

[Maximumbob54]

It makes me wonder why S&W doesn't listen to the public concerning the triggers on the three poly pistol lines. In doing my research and handling the sigma, people hate the trigger. Too long, too much pressure to pull, etc... I passed up a sigma for the SD for that exact reason.

My SD doesn't have the best trigger and I bought an apex kit (yet to be installed) to help with the problem.

The M&P pistols have some of the same concerns and I hear alot of the same tune. The trigger is good but it can be improved. Now the M&P has a variety of Apex kits to help with this probem but then your spending an extra $100 on top of the price of the gun to get the trigger how you want it.

I know the argument of designed for police use and mimicing the feel of a revolver. But with as many people complaining about the triggers on S&W poly pistols, you'd think S&W would be able to offer it's own kit for a certain price or try to improve it's existing design.

Am I missing something or is S&W missing an opportunity to make a couple bucks selling trigger kits for it's own pistols? Maybe like a car dealership offering the performance brake package or something along those line.

Does it seem like S&W is ignoring the whole question?

You answered at least one part of your own question...

 

[Ruger Nut]

It makes me wonder why S&W doesn't listen to the public concerning the triggers on the three poly pistol lines. In doing my research and handling the sigma, people hate the trigger. Too long, too much pressure to pull, etc... I passed up a sigma for the SD for that exact reason.

My SD doesn't have the best trigger and I bought an apex kit (yet to be installed) to help with the problem.

The M&P pistols have some of the same concerns and I hear alot of the same tune. The trigger is good but it can be improved. Now the M&P has a variety of Apex kits to help with this probem but then your spending an extra $100 on top of the price of the gun to get the trigger how you want it.

I know the argument of designed for police use and mimicing the feel of a revolver. But with as many people complaining about the triggers on S&W poly pistols, you'd think S&W would be able to offer it's own kit for a certain price or try to improve it's existing design.

Am I missing something or is S&W missing an opportunity to make a couple bucks selling trigger kits for it's own pistols? Maybe like a car dealership offering the performance brake package or something along those line.

Does it seem like S&W is ignoring the whole question?

I'm not being sarcastic but if the trigger is that much of an issue with you there is always the dark side of the force,Glock.
I do understand where you are coming from tho.I have the SW40VE and with over 2500K rounds thru it my trigger is smooth and getting better.
If Apex comes out with a trigger kit for the Sigma,i'll buy one.For now,i'm ok with it.

 

[Bluelou]

Call s&w and tell them your problem.s&w makes outstanding wheel gun's.semi auto's not so much.

 

[squidsix]

Get your grubby hands on a 4506, and then tell me the triggers on S&W autos are "less than stellar".
They stopped making good guns sometime in the late 90s. They are missed.

 

[heekma]

Get your grubby hands on a 4506, and then tell me the triggers on S&W autos are "less than stellar".
They stopped making good guns sometime in the late 90s. They are missed.

Ahem...this right here. The 4506 and 5906 both have the best double and single action triggers I've ever had the pleasure to use, and the trigger reset is short and positive enough to make a 1911 nervous.

When it comes to triggers on polymer guns, Glock is the one to beat hands down-relatively smooth, light, consistent and with a short reset so positive you could feel it with a numb finger.

In all other respects I prefer the M&P.

Best,

Heekma

 

[remat457]

I think the bulk of owners think the trigger is fine. If you look there is a current thread about the stock trigger being too light and too easy to pull!

I think that the trigger is ok, once broken in that is, but a competition grade trigger it is not. But as pointed out, that is not the intended audience.

 

[ImjinScout]

My wife finally got use to her trigger on her M&P9mm and that is what I hear alot, just have to get used to it, as for poly guns the trigger on my FNX is great I really like it, but hands down the best triggers are on my S&W6906, 4566TSW, and 4003TSW

 

[blujax01]

Call s&w and tell them your problem.s&w makes outstanding wheel gun's.semi auto's not so much.

I disagree.

 

[18DAI]

If you want a nice plastic gun with a REAL trigger, try the Walther PPQ. That is a nice plastic gun. Very accurate and reliable too. Not as ugly as S&W plastic guns either. Regards 18DAI

 

[Fat B]

I'm not being sarcastic but if the trigger is that much of an issue with you there is always the dark side of the force,Glock.
I do understand where you are coming from tho.I have the SW40VE and with over 2500K rounds thru it my trigger is smooth and getting better.
If Apex comes out with a trigger kit for the Sigma,i'll buy one.For now,i'm ok with it.

All of this comes from going to the gun shop with a couple friends of mine who just want something that goes bang once in a while. They don't need a carry or a self defense weapon and they will never do any serious target shooting. They'll probably go through less than a box of ammo per year. So at the gun store the have a sigma and a HI-Point 9mm and the Hi-Point is almost half the price.

Feel of the trigger was just terrible on the sigma. Not much better on the hi-point but even I can't talk them into buying a S&W instead of the bottom of the barrel. With a lifetime warranty from hi-point, I couldn't blame them for not wanting to spend twice as much. I also couldn't blame them for dismissing my argument of how the sigma trigger will feel much better after it's shot a bunch of times. And since neither of them cared that the hi-point is ugly, I'm out of arguments.

I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, bring up this argument but it seems to me like S&W isn't even trying to make a nice trigger on the sigma.

Whatever. Both of them are happy with their hi-points and since it's the first pistol for both of them I'm not going to rain on their parade by belittling their guns. At least not when they're in ear shot.

 

[Fastbolt]

The M&P was intended to be a service-grade weapon.

The triggers have an accepted range when it comes to the weight (with a +/- 2 lb tolerance).

Most M&P's are just fine. Especially after a couple of hundred or more rounds.

The Pro Series is offered for those folks who want a more competitive/target trigger instead of a service-grade trigger, and the Performance Center offers something for the standard M&P's.

If I wanted a "stellar trigger" on a plastic pistol I'd stay with the Walther P99 AS (or their new PPQ), but even the standard SW99/P99's with their Anti-Stress triggers often needed some trigger time in order to become really smooth and optimal.

Most ordinary owners/shooters (meaning except for the skilled/competitive shooters) would probably benefit from more "improvement" of their skillset ... especially in the way of trigger technique & control ... than trying to improve the guns.

FWIW, S&W did revise the Sigma several years ago, and the trigger was one of the areas which received some attention. We were told the triggers had been brought down in the approx 9 lb range (from quite a bit heavier in the older guns).

I've not handled or looked at the SD series, since I was told the SD was only intended for commercial sales (meaning not LE/Gov customers), so I don't have any firsthand experience with them. Last I heard, they hadn't even planned to come up with an armorer class because it wasn't intended as a gun which would interest LE.

Now, S&W has been reviewing the M&P as customer feedback has been received, and have been making some continual refinements and revisions since its original introduction back in Jan '06, and it wouldn't surprise me to see them continue to make some refinements along the way.

 

[WR Moore]

I know the argument of designed for police use and mimicing the feel of a revolver. But with as many people complaining about the triggers on S&W poly pistols, you'd think S&W would be able to offer it's own kit for a certain price or try to improve it's existing design.

Am I missing something or is S&W missing an opportunity to make a couple bucks selling trigger kits for it's own pistols? Maybe like a car dealership offering the performance brake package or something along those line.

Does it seem like S&W is ignoring the whole question?

No, S&W isn't ignoring the question. As Fastbolt notes, that's why the L and Pro series pistols exist for some folks who play games with guns. And, there is the Performance Center for trigger work with a factory warranty, which the Apex parts won't have.

You're never gonna see a factory DIY trigger kit for liability reasons. No how, no way.

When the M&P series was introduced, they were selling at something over 10,000 pistols per month. I've quit trying to keep track, but the last time I looked, the rate hadn't slowed down much, if at all. So I'm not sure exactly why you feel there's much of a problem, much less why S&W isn't making some effort to improve their product. There have been product improvements introduced.

I'll also note there's no product in history that hasn't had production changes as a result of what happens when large numbers of folks get their hands on it.

FWIW, the best advice to the question "Whats the best investment I can make to improve my performance with my pistol?" is "Lots of practice ammo. When we went from a TDA S&W to the M&P the average scores went up. Those of us on the higher end of the scoring took a while longer to learn the new system and then we caught up to our previous scores and/or surpassed them. You can indeed do 1/4 second split times with good hits with the stock trigger.

 

[Lee D]

buy a Ruger, shoot it, and then your Smith will seem like a custom gun.

 

[junior1954]

The cost per gun to modify their M&P auto's trigger to shoot smoother and lighter would be insignificant. There's a different shaped sear, a bevel on the striker block and different spring weights. Obviously, S&W dumbed the trigger down for a reason, possibly to keep it from competing with their Pro series. Another reason might be that at the M&P's price, a lot of first time gun owners will be buying them, owners who should really know when they're pulling the trigger. Whatever the reason, I'd rather spend $80. on an APEX kit (just ordered) and have my M&P, even if it does void my warranty.