Why does S&W still make the SD/ SV series?

[nimbly]

Other than the Shields, it's the only S&W semi that can be bought new here. The full size and compact M&P's are not approved for sale, so if you find one for sale it has to be sold ppt and you'll pay a premium over what the MSRP is.

I don't know what the advantage of a pistol that size would be if you're only allowed 10 round magazines.

 

[Walkingwolf]

Because it gives Gaston heart burn...

 

[Jim NNN]

The SD line totally makes sense to me. That way, S&W - a legendary gun maker who produces fine and high end guns - can also make handguns that are price competitive with less expensive imported lines like Taurus, Bersa and Sar Arms, as well as more crudely made US gun lines like Kel Tec.

Remember when Honda first brought their products to the US in the 60's and 70's? What kind of vehicles did they sell? Cheap cars and motorcycles.

And what do they sell TODAY? Exactly.
NOT selling the SD line would be the nonsensical thing to do.

 

[JGR_LV]

It's a solid, safe, no-frills working gun at a nearly unbeatable price point, sort of the like the original "M&P" concept. That pretty much guarantees it's going to be out there for a long time. I'm not knocking the new M&P; it's just that the Sigma/SD is a whole bunch more affordable and will make the same size holes in things. I was thinking "Glock" when I decided to hold my nose and buy a plastic gun, but I talked to a LEO/gunsmith/armorer friend and asked about the Sigma. His response: "I've had both of them. They both work. One costs a lot more than the other. I've had one recall on the Glock, none on the Sigma." The original M&P was intended as an affordable military and police weapon, long on durability and reliability and short on spiffy finish, at least compared to the civilian models Smith was turning out in the day. The SD fills the same niche today. The modern M&P reminds me a bit of Subaru. We bought one of those in 1984, when the company slogan was "Inexpensive and built to stay that way," which is exactly what they were, a 4x4 wagon with a 5x2 transaxle, seating for 5 plus luggage space, all for under $9,500 out the door. Priced a new Legacy Outback lately? Hint: they dropped that slogan about twenty years ago.
Regarding the reliability, I had been messing with a new striker spring on my Sigma 40F and took it to the range to test for issues, using some of the black & orange box reload stuff that was new at the time. I had a couple of FTFs and mentioned it to one of the range officers on the way out, wondering if it was my gun or the ammo. He offered to run some through his Glock 22 to see if it had the same issues. He fired half a dozen rounds, and the next to the last sounded unusually loud. He then handed it over to me to try. I fired four or five more and had a case head separate. We cleared everything, not, in hindsight, checkng as carefully as we should have, and I tried another two or three. The Glock appeared to be working normally to me, but he stopped me, saying it wasn't ejecting right. We checked and discovered the extractor had been blown clean out of the slide. By a miracle, we managed to find all the pieces, even that tiny spring, and cram it all back in the gun without tools. Kudos to the Glock for that, but consider that the Sigma had digested the same ammo without a hiccup.

 

[spad124]

I don't see the SD9VE (SD for "self-defense", VE for "value edition") as a really good concealed carry gun or as a gun that its owner can't really trust. I believe S&W's target market is mainly home and personal defense, and for that it is adequate if it's all you can afford.

I've always understood "truck gun" to mean an inexpensive, easily replaceable gun that you wouldn't really mind terribly if it got a little banged-up, dirty or even stolen (like stolen out of your truck). I don't recall anything about a "truck gun" having to be unreliable or untrustable. That doesn't make sense to me.

For me, the SD9VE is a cheap, no-nonsense, easy-to-use, readily deployable without going broke home protection piece. No more, no less.

I think you are absolutely correct. A "vehicle" gun must be trustworthy and easy to use. And I think you've nailed the target market

I bought my SD9VE because it is 1) reliable, 2) had good accuracy, 3) inexpensive, 4) easy to use, and 5) doesn't have a lot of sharp edges that can catch on clothing etc like the XD series.

While I take good care of my guns, the SD may get a few scuffs and scratches as it gets carried or rides in a vehicle so as to be readily available.

I wouldn't keep a gun that is unreliable or I didn't trust would perform when needed.

 

[nimbly]

I am not a big fan of the Tacticool thing. Really I think the SD is a better looking pistol also.

 

[TTSH]

I am not a big fan of the Tacticool thing. Really I think the SD is a better looking pistol also.

I still liked it best in all-black. I wish they would bring back a black slide model that I could buy here in moonbat MA.

 

[Rule3]

Why? becuase it is cheap (inexpensive) and they have to sell lots of them to pay of the lawsuit from Glock

Plus it helps Apex sells tons of trigger upgrades and you end up spending what a MP would have cost,

Why not buy a Glock it has better resale (no I am not a Glock fan) and it also has a crummy trigger.

 

[Disabled1]

Why? becuase it is cheap (inexpensive) and they have to sell lots of them to pay of the lawsuit from Glock

Plus it helps Apex sells tons of trigger upgrades and you end up spending what a MP would have cost,

Why not buy a Glock it has better resale (no I am not a Glock fan) and it also has a crummy trigger.

True, the SDVE series will make APEX BOOKOO $$$$. But, the trigger and spring kit are what, $75? Add that to the low selling price of the SDVE (About $269) and you are over $100+ BELOW the cost of an M&P (About $475).

 

[sixtwoniner]

Rather than swapping out the triggers and barrels and gripping about the sloppy the action. Learn to shoot what you have. How many of you military or LEO got to change out the trigger cause you didn't like the feels when quals came along. I don't think so. SD9VE right out of the box is one accurate semiautomatic pistol right out of the box.

 

[djt17]

Rather than swapping out the triggers and barrels and gripping about the sloppy the action. Learn to shoot what you have. How many of you military or LEO got to change out the trigger cause you didn't like the feels when quals came along. I don't think so. SD9VE right out of the box is one accurate semiautomatic pistol right out of the box.

This...it took me a few hundred rounds to learn to shoot mine accurately; but, now I am very happy with it.

 

[GRU_ 7_ mech]

Rather than swapping out the triggers and barrels and gripping about the sloppy the action. Learn to shoot what you have. How many of you military or LEO got to change out the trigger cause you didn't like the feels when quals came along. I don't think so. SD9VE right out of the box is one accurate semiautomatic pistol right out of the box.

Thing is....I am not in the military any longer and I am not a LEO , so rather than "learn to shoot what I have", I can fine tune my firearm to what I want it to be. Of the 7 I own I have done one mod to one firearm....an Apex trigger in the SD9VE. The CZ P07 may get a few things more from kits I get from CGW.....maybe!

 

[trailmix]

Rather than swapping out the triggers and barrels and gripping about the sloppy the action. Learn to shoot what you have. How many of you military or LEO got to change out the trigger cause you didn't like the feels when quals came along. I don't think so. SD9VE right out of the box is one accurate semiautomatic pistol right out of the box.

Are you suggesting that one should stick with a gun that they can't shoot well? Doesn't sound like good advice to me. I really tried to shoot this pistol well and after about 5000 rounds I decided to try something else and what a difference that made.

Unfortunately I chose to buy a SD40 as my first handgun so I never realized how bad they really were because I had nothing to compare it to. When I traded (upgraded) to a 4006 I went from a 4ft grouping to a 5in at 7 yards! I honestly almost gave up on handguns because I thought I was just a terrible shot but now I actually enjoy going to the range. If someone doesn't feel comfortable or enjoy a particular gun I would suggest to try something else. I now have 20-25 handguns and I have never had the accuracy problem that I had with my SD40. On a positive note, out of all the rounds I fired through the SD I never had a single jam or failure of any kind.

 

[Walkingwolf]

I have never shot a firearm that was well built, and could not shoot accurately. Most revolvers have a longer, heavier trigger pull than a SD. Our Colt Police Positive(1911) has a 17# trigger. Both the wife, and I can shoot 3 inch groups off hand at 10 yards with it double action.

I don't golf, but I have been told by many golfers that buying $10K clubs will not make you a better golfer.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Why does S&W still make the SD/ SV series?

Because people buy them and they have contracts with Middle eastern US allies.

 

[BlueArch91]

I don't golf, but I have been told by many golfers that buying $10K clubs will not make you a better golfer.

I am a hack golfer and if you hand me a more expensive club my hit will be just as marginal as my discount specials.

I am just getting back into shooting as a hobby, you put a different pistol in my hands and there can be different results. I just posted how I shot a G19 much better than my SD9VE. I really like my S&W so it bummed me out a little.

I plan on working on my shot with the SD9VE, but I am frustrated by my results and I am considering going to Apex for triggering and spring upgrades. I need to shoot an M&P again, maybe the hinged trigger is what I am having difficulty with. I don't think it is the weight of the pull so much but maybe it is. When you think of it, it doesn't take much of a twitch to land your bullet inches off your target.


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[rperillo05]

I didn't read the whole thread sorry if anyone else mentioned this. I had one when they first came out (Sigma 9VE) It was my first firearm and was a nice gun for the price. I still feel they fit that type of buyer. Ended up selling it for my old MP40c which I also no longer have. I wish I kept it though (the Sigma). I had the side redone (rounded and coated) by Bowie Tactical curious before cerakoting was cool. It was a nice looking gun.

Secondly, didn't Glock win a lawsuit against SW for royalties on the Sigma's? Maybe that's still in effect as long as they're selling so Glock is still getting paid too?

 

[Walkingwolf]

I am a hack golfer and if you hand me a more expensive club my hit will be just as marginal as my discount specials.

I am just getting back into shooting as a hobby, you put a different pistol in my hands and there can be different results. I just posted how I shot a G19 much better than my SD9VE. I really like my S&W so it bummed me out a little.

I plan on working on my shot with the SD9VE, but I am frustrated by my results and I am considering going to Apex for triggering and spring upgrades. I need to shoot an M&P again, maybe the hinged trigger is what I am having difficulty with. I don't think it is the weight of the pull so much but maybe it is. When you think of it, it doesn't take much of a twitch to land your bullet inches off your target.


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Just my opinion, but shooting a revolver will help your semi auto skills. I grew up on revolvers, shooting semi autos is a breeze, even the military triggers on the old soviet semi autos.

Just a suggestion, but forget the sights, forget the target, just work on grip, and trigger pull while keeping the firearm from jerking. To be honest a person can shoot millions of rounds, and still jerk when they shoot. Because of the recoil they never see/notice it, the only way to find out is dry fire. The person must be watching the gun during the dry fire, they will instantly be able to see their problem. Another solution is dummy rounds randomly in the magazine with live rounds. Don't forget the quarter drills also, don't work as well on a semi that has to be reset, but they do work. The quarter drill in the academy was the first drill when I went to the academy, after safety training.

Another problem is having a less than brisk trigger pull. Early Colt revolvers were designed for such a pull, that is why the heavier pull does not affect the accuracy with a skilled shooter. The Colt lock work is designed for a very positive pull.

 

[GRU_ 7_ mech]

All I can say is it is a good thing there is not an auto Pinocchio emoji in this forum when BS is posted.

 

[ScaryWoody]

Smith and Wesson also sells this pistol line to less developed countries Military and Police.

 

[58619owner]

Are you suggesting that one should stick with a gun that they can't shoot well? Doesn't sound like good advice to me. I really tried to shoot this pistol well and after about 5000 rounds I decided to try something else and what a difference that made.

Unfortunately I chose to buy a SD40 as my first handgun so I never realized how bad they really were because I had nothing to compare it to. When I traded (upgraded) to a 4006 I went from a 4ft grouping to a 5in at 7 yards! I honestly almost gave up on handguns because I thought I was just a terrible shot but now I actually enjoy going to the range. If someone doesn't feel comfortable or enjoy a particular gun I would suggest to try something else. I now have 20-25 handguns and I have never had the accuracy problem that I had with my SD40. On a positive note, out of all the rounds I fired through the SD I never had a single jam or failure of any kind.

If you are still getting a 5 inch group at 7 yards then yes you are a terrible shot. I would recommend you sell some of the dozen handguns you own and use those funds to buy cases of ammo for the one you like the best and master it before blaming a gun on your lack of skill. I promise you any modern computer designed, cnc manufactured handgun built today is mechanically more accurate then you are including the SD.

 

[Biggfoot44]

The concept of " why buy X , when you can get Y for $200 more ? " is a slippery slope . The SD fills a (very popular) niche at a particular price point .

If you think an SD has the Worst Ever trigger, obviously you haven't tried a Sigma .

 

[trailmix]

If you are still getting a 5 inch group at 7 yards then yes you are a terrible shot. I would recommend you sell some of the dozen handguns you own and use those funds to buy cases of ammo for the one you Like the best and master it before blaming a gun on your lack of skill. I promise you any modern computer designed, cnc manufactured handgun built today is mechanically more accurate then you are including the SD.

No, the 5 inch group was the first magazine with my 4006 while I was still getting familiar with the new gun. I shoot better than 5 inch groups with a DA J frame.
You totally missed the point anyway, the SD is the ONLY gun that I could not get any kind of accuracy with so selling my other guns to buy ammo is not going to fix that.

 

[GRU_ 7_ mech]

A can of worms has opened with a 4'....let me repeat to make sure.....When I traded (upgraded) to a 4006 I went from a 4ft grouping to a 5in at 7 yards! Let me repeat that to be sure,,,,4FT?
I never shot my Phoenix Arms HP22 or my Cobra 380 that bad first time out of the box. A person could shoot better than that without sights!!! Did anyone else shoot your SD9VE and get that same result?

 

[58619owner]

No, the 5 inch group was the first magazine with my 4006 while I was still getting familiar with the new gun. I shoot better than 5 inch groups with a DA J frame.
You totally missed the point anyway, the SD is the ONLY gun that I could not get any kind of accuracy with so selling my other guns to buy ammo is not going to fix that.

Either you are an exaggerator or a bad shot, Which is it? You went from a 4ft grouping with the SD to a 5 inch grouping with another pistol at 7 yards. If that is the case you would have been better off throwing the pistol then using it in it's intended purpose.

You missed the point, if you grouping is that bad then it is YOU and not the gun. Everyone else doesn't share your data. YOU are the only one who does. So seeing that your sample size is small and YOU are the only one who is getting these results a reasonable person would conclude the person pulling the trigger is the reason and not the gun unless the gun was manufactured incorrectly.

 

[trailmix]

Well I didn't get the tape measure out but it was really, really bad. I missed the silhouette 2-3 times out of a magazine. I wouldn't even call it a group because there honestly was no group. I do believe that I could have shot this pistol just as well without sights. But...

You are totally missing the point of my post which was a response to someone's suggestion to stick with a gun even if it doesn't work for them. I offered my own experience as an example of why that might not be good advice. Do these guns work for other people? Yes, thousands of people can shoot them and do so very well but I am not one of those people. I learned the hard way that some guns just don't work for certain people and I think it is irresponsible to suggest that they stick with a gun that doesn't work for them. I thought that if I just continued to practice I would get better but even after thousands of rounds it never happened.

 

[Walkingwolf]

It isn't often that a gun throws bullets wildly, and in most cases the manufacturer will make it right. One Sigma is not an indictment of the entire line. It would have taken other problems than just a trigger to get 4 ft groups IMO. I have a Star built in 1947 with a pitted bore that shoots 1 to 2 inch groups at 10 yards.

Even smooth bore derringers are capable of better accuracy than that. The barrel would have had to have a serious flaw, unless the shooter was just a bad shot.

I had a CA Pitbull that would not group under 4 inches at ten yards. I could see an uneven rifling in the bore. I sent it back to CA, they replaced the barrel, and now it shoots under 3 inches. If it had a longer sight radius I could probably get it down to 2 inches. It has a nice pull for a revolver, but still probably heavier than the Sigma.

 

[GRU_ 7_ mech]

Please!

 

[tiderulz]

Well I didn't get the tape measure out but it was really, really bad. I missed the silhouette 2-3 times out of a magazine. I wouldn't even call it a group because there honestly was no group. I do believe that I could have shot this pistol just as well without sights. But...

You are totally missing the point of my post which was a response to someone's suggestion to stick with a gun even if it doesn't work for them. I offered my own experience as an example of why that might not be good advice. Do these guns work for other people? Yes, thousands of people can shoot them and do so very well but I am not one of those people. I learned the hard way that some guns just don't work for certain people and I think it is irresponsible to suggest that they stick with a gun that doesn't work for them. I thought that if I just continued to practice I would get better but even after thousands of rounds it never happened.

I feel you. I bought the SD9VE first and shot it factory made. I got a great deal on a SA XDM 9mm a couple of weeks later and I shoot that one much better and with closer groupings. I have put in the Apex spring kit and while it made the trigger much better, i increased my accuracy only a little. I want to give it a chance, but I am leaning very much towards selling/trading for something else.

 

[brchambersjr]

I always read comments that say "Why doesn't S&W make a G-19 sized M&P?" and I think to myself, they already make a great pistol comparable to a G-19. It's called SD.

Ok, bring it Glock guys.

Bill