warbird
Member
I believe here in the south it is usually cost. To me it's odd in that most houses down here are built with fireplaces which to me are mostly cosmetic and a waste of money that could be going to a basement. JMO.
Why no basements in tornado areas??
- Thread starter MrJT
- Start date
Here in central Indiana most houses have basements. At least
the ones i've been in. Some are old root cellars or where the coal
chutes led to the basement furnace. Good places to get to if a
twister is coming.
I suppose in Texas they don't dig that many cause they might
dig too deep and strike that pesky oil field.
Chuck
the ones i've been in. Some are old root cellars or where the coal
chutes led to the basement furnace. Good places to get to if a
twister is coming.
I suppose in Texas they don't dig that many cause they might
dig too deep and strike that pesky oil field.
Chuck
The footings that support the foundation need to be below the frost line or the house will move when the ground freezes and again when it thaws.
gregintenn
Member
Trailers don't come with basements.
Seriously, I have a basement, and they are fairly common in my area. It mostly depends on the lay of the land where you build. Some places are a good location for a basement; some aren't.
Seriously, I have a basement, and they are fairly common in my area. It mostly depends on the lay of the land where you build. Some places are a good location for a basement; some aren't.
Ilike9mm
Member
How about the guys that hire out of state companies to build a "Survival Room"? Put in all your food, ammo etc. Like the "bunker" from the 1950's.
People in the city build a "safe room". When danger is present they get the room, with heavy door and communications. Bunker and Hunker?
People in the city build a "safe room". When danger is present they get the room, with heavy door and communications. Bunker and Hunker?
Mcwsky09
Member
Not only that
But also to have a below freeze for items such as water supply and sewer drain. My house is built on clay and it is effective, insofar as having a basement below where the ground freezes in the winter.
Cost can be another factor - out in Nevada for example, the ground is so hard that even for buried power lines or sprinkler systems they only go down a few inches largely because you need a jackhammer or dynamite to do anything but scratch the surface - so the cost of digging a giant hole is prohibitive.
But also to have a below freeze for items such as water supply and sewer drain. My house is built on clay and it is effective, insofar as having a basement below where the ground freezes in the winter.
Cost can be another factor - out in Nevada for example, the ground is so hard that even for buried power lines or sprinkler systems they only go down a few inches largely because you need a jackhammer or dynamite to do anything but scratch the surface - so the cost of digging a giant hole is prohibitive.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
Tornadoes just blew past here as I read this thread. I am in the basement and they are standard here in Iowa. They originally were for storage of canned goods, etc. and storm refuge. Then furnaces got put in them. Now lots of the newer homes are built with walk-out basements, i.e. on a slope with the backside open to a deck.
Basements are down to a science here with contractors who do nothing but. They can roll onto a site and be done pouring three days later. High water tables are a big problem here so sump pumps are critical.
Putting a house on a slab or cement blocks is cheaper plus the tornado gods don't get as angry if the house rises easily.
Basements are down to a science here with contractors who do nothing but. They can roll onto a site and be done pouring three days later. High water tables are a big problem here so sump pumps are critical.
Putting a house on a slab or cement blocks is cheaper plus the tornado gods don't get as angry if the house rises easily.
Mostly because of the unstable soil. This area is mostly clay. We go without rain. Then we get lots. Then it's hot then freezing. The basement walls would move and crack. Then once in a blue moon we would have rain and the basement would fill with water. Storm cellars would not be used very often and they would be full of ants and spiders. Mother and Dad lost their house North of Bonham back in the thirties. Near Turkey Flat. House was gone but the little chicks under a no. 2 wash tub were fine. The tub didn't move.
I'm in the Ozarks and have a full basement. Guy who we bought it from was like Thomas Edison. Built it himself in the fifties. Amazing construction with actual 2x12's for rafters. Limestone bedrock is like 2 feet deep and from there up is rocks with a little dirt mixed in. He used dynamite to blast out the basement. Got to spend quite a bit of time with the guy before we took possession. He was in his late 80's and his hobby was crafting rifle stocks and fore arms with exotic woods. He built a secret room in the house to store his guns in when he and his wife traveled. Got sidetracked but yes I have a basement. Had a pellet and bb target box set up for my kids when they were young.
Most unnerving one I saw came down between my kid's schools.We were driving over to pick up our daughter from kindergarten and it touched down between 2 buildings with our son in one and our daughter in the other.Their mother was a bit upset!
LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
No one else seems to have noticed that tornadoes seem to have a particular affinity for mobile home parks (every tornado story seems to feature video footage of a devastated mobile home, or two, or three, or a dozen), leading me to my theory that there were no tornadoes prior to the invention of mobile homes.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the cause and effect study so far seems to support my theory.
Maybe I'm wrong, but the cause and effect study so far seems to support my theory.
SW_shooter
Member
The clay soil answer is right. The soil is so unstable that the basement would never survive or have to be built with so much re-enforcement it would be cost prohibitive. The walls would have to be solid poured concrete with tons of re-bar and then the floor would also be a problem as it would heave and crack.
The roads down here are terrible and not because they don't try. They prep the clay soil with liquid gypsum and pack it down and pour an asphalt bed before pouring concrete over it and yet the road will crack and heave in a matter of months. The frost line is just over a foot or so and because of that they build slab on grade with grade beams primarily. There are basements but they are a rarity. Below ground parking ramps and commercial buildings with lower levels are expensive to build and maintain.
Now, attics, they sure know how to use an attic for storage down here.
The roads down here are terrible and not because they don't try. They prep the clay soil with liquid gypsum and pack it down and pour an asphalt bed before pouring concrete over it and yet the road will crack and heave in a matter of months. The frost line is just over a foot or so and because of that they build slab on grade with grade beams primarily. There are basements but they are a rarity. Below ground parking ramps and commercial buildings with lower levels are expensive to build and maintain.
Now, attics, they sure know how to use an attic for storage down here.
LVSteve
Member
Ahh yes, caliche. Truly evil stuff only good for testing nukes and bunker busters. Radio ham buddy told me the story of trying to get a decent earth spike into the ground. It took him weeks of repeatedly soaking the hole, pounding on a steel rod until it stopped, removing the rod, filling the hole with water... you get the idea.
snowman
Member
Lots of good answers here as usual. I appreciate the input from the fellows who live in that area of Texas, and we all trust that you're OK.
I worked for a residential contractor for a number of years who built a lot of homes, some with and some without basements. In this area cost is the issue; the average basement adds significantly to the cost of the average home. For some people, perhaps many, it would mean the difference between being able to afford to build/buy or not. If the choice is there, one just has to weigh the risk of doing without compared to the financial impact of having one.
The more recent idea of rebar-reinforced concrete safe rooms in the middle of the structure is the less expensive solution if one is building a new house; and it seems to me to be the better solution overall, if storm protection is all that is desired. As I understand it, these can be built to withstand even EF5 winds. That will keep a family safe. And the problems mentioned earlier of water, mold, vermin, etc. would be avoided.
Something to ponder is that even basements don't guarantee safety. I understand that most injuries and deaths from tornados are from flying debris which is turned into deadly projectiles. I would think that just being in the basement wouldn't necessarily prevent such debris from hitting you. It's also true that tornados produce powerful updrafts, which in the case of the rarer EF4s and EF5s can lift the entire house and suck people right out of the basement. It seems to me that the only solution there is either the outdoor cellar or the safe room having its own footer to anchor it fast. But all this is just my opinion and is, as they say, worth about what you paid for it.
Regards,
Andy
I worked for a residential contractor for a number of years who built a lot of homes, some with and some without basements. In this area cost is the issue; the average basement adds significantly to the cost of the average home. For some people, perhaps many, it would mean the difference between being able to afford to build/buy or not. If the choice is there, one just has to weigh the risk of doing without compared to the financial impact of having one.
The more recent idea of rebar-reinforced concrete safe rooms in the middle of the structure is the less expensive solution if one is building a new house; and it seems to me to be the better solution overall, if storm protection is all that is desired. As I understand it, these can be built to withstand even EF5 winds. That will keep a family safe. And the problems mentioned earlier of water, mold, vermin, etc. would be avoided.
Something to ponder is that even basements don't guarantee safety. I understand that most injuries and deaths from tornados are from flying debris which is turned into deadly projectiles. I would think that just being in the basement wouldn't necessarily prevent such debris from hitting you. It's also true that tornados produce powerful updrafts, which in the case of the rarer EF4s and EF5s can lift the entire house and suck people right out of the basement. It seems to me that the only solution there is either the outdoor cellar or the safe room having its own footer to anchor it fast. But all this is just my opinion and is, as they say, worth about what you paid for it.
Regards,
Andy
Faulkner
Member
Mobile home park = tornado magnet
truckemup97
Member
I would love to have a basement. In fact, I would love to have a (mostly) underground home. The trouble is that when I dig a hole in my backyard, it starts filling with water before it's three feet deep. Add to that the fact that there is very little slope in my neighborhood (for drainage) and you would either have a 5' deep swimming pool in your basement or twin sump pumps running 24/7/365.
The simple fact is, I've been in four tornados in my lifetime, and I've never had an injury or more than minor damage to property.
The garage hidey-holes are a good idea, but my garage is already full.
The simple fact is, I've been in four tornados in my lifetime, and I've never had an injury or more than minor damage to property.
The garage hidey-holes are a good idea, but my garage is already full.
S&WIowegan
US Veteran
We always build all the mobile home parks in flood plains in the Midwest. The land is cheap so the developer goes for it. Most renters don't have a clue....oh well!?
Silver Dollar
US Veteran
That's exactly what happens in the neighborhood I lived in in Northwest Florida. I remember when my neighbor had an in ground pool built. They must have pumped water out of the land area for weeks before they could build the pool itself. The water table is so high that you wouldn't be able to keep water out of your basement---ever.
lagavulin62
Member
When I saw all the replies to this thread I just knew I was too late for the Trailer Park bashing. But it reminds me of the crime series City Confidential and the late Paul Windfield's comment that went something like "attracted to each other about as fast as a tornado to a trailer park" when making a point. I really loved that show and his sarcasm and the tornado slice was just hilarious.
One thing I have always wondered was the theory behind throwing the old tires on top of the trailer. Is this to help ward of lightning and possibly have some calming effect on tornadoes? It has to be something in the metal. I really don't know. They should study this stuff. I further question whether a double wide is twice as vulnerable than your basic starter unit. I think a special committee should be setup to study this.
One thing I have always wondered was the theory behind throwing the old tires on top of the trailer. Is this to help ward of lightning and possibly have some calming effect on tornadoes? It has to be something in the metal. I really don't know. They should study this stuff. I further question whether a double wide is twice as vulnerable than your basic starter unit. I think a special committee should be setup to study this.
