Why not .357 for home defense

[seagill]

Saying "don't worry about overpenetration" is easy, but if your'e worried about it, you may hesitate when you should be shooting! If it is a real concern to you, load the first two cylinders with Glasers then four 125 gr JHP's. Or go with a 20 gauge with #2 or #3 buckshot.

 

[147_Grain]

I simply cannot believe that someone would be worried about overpentration and hearing loss while defending your home.

There is a very real possibility of overpenetration or missed shot in ANY self defense situation regardless of what caliber you use.

I would rather live to explain how and why I shot instead of being DEAD!

Let's put the baloney aside for once.

Pick a gun in a decent caliber, make sure it works reliably, load it with quality self defense ammo, practice and then practice some more. Work out a plan with your family.

Quite simply, that's all you need.

I have the Federal .38 Special 158gr. LSWC-HP +P "FBI" load in all of my .38s and .357s. I'm not concerned about stopping power or overpenetration.

A lot of prudent advice on this thread that also has a few posts that are overcomplicating the situation. For the "average" civilian protecting their home with a 357 Magnum 3" - 4" barrel, I suggest you keep things simple and load it with the more controllable 38 Special +P FBI load.

Buffalo Bore makes an outstanding short-barrel +P 158-gr. LSWCHP FBI / Chicago load and also a sharp-edged 150-gr. standard pressure wadcutter (for use where applicable):

Buffalo Bore: Also see other +P loads with 158-gr. LSWCHP (FBI / Chicago Load)
** 158-gr. +P LSWCHP (20A) @ 1,162 fps in 4” barrel.
* 150-gr. Standard Pressure Hardcast Wadcutter (20D) @ 1,005 fps in 4” barrel.


The new PDX1 (basically a bonded Ranger T bullet) from Winchester is also worth consideration:

Winchester Supreme Elite: Civilian version of bonded Ranger T
* 130-gr. +P Bonded PDX1 (S38PDB) @ 950 fps

 

[147_Grain]

For civilians who practice a lot and prefer 357 Magnum ammo, the #1 load I'm aware of for SD is the 140-gr. Tactical XP load from Barnes (heavy copper jacketed HP bullet that expands very well with razor sharp talons that results in deep penetration):

Federal LE 357 Mag:
** 140-gr. Barnes Expander (P357XB1)

http://ammo.ar15.com/project/Self_Defense_Ammo_FAQ/WebData/2010_FederalLECatalog.pdf

 

[147_Grain]

Conversely:

Those with 357 Magnum snubnose revolvers would be well served to consider the standard pressure FBI / Chicago or wadcutter (if applicable) loads in 38 Special. Example:

Buffalo Bore Short Barrel:
** 158-gr. Standard Pressure Lead Semi-Wadcutter HP (20C) @ 854 fps in 2” barrel. Less recoil & similar velocity as Speer’s 135-gr. Gold Dot @ 860 fps.

Buffalo Bore Short Barrel Low Flash 158-gr. FBI Load

* 150-gr. Standard Pressure Hardcast Wadcutter (20D) @ 868 fps in 2” barrel.

Buffalo Bore Short Barrel 150-gr. Hardcast Wadcutter

Note: For some situations, a low-velocity hardcast wadcutter load may be preferred in a snubnose because it permanently cuts through flesh and bone, rather than temporarily just pushing it aside as FMJ does. Many 38 Special HP’s are not good penetrators, but the FBI load and hardcast wadcutters are!
______________________

P.S. Sticking with 38 Special STANDARD PRESSURE in lightweight snubnose revolvers has provided the best combination of accuracy, recoil control, and follow-up shots in my snubnose revolvers (S&W 637-CT and Ruger LCR).

 

[MrJT]

I don't think many people who are pointing out the "drawbacks" of .357 for home defense are saying they wouldn't use one. I think they are just responding to the question.

Now, I'm one who was unlucky enough to have to fire a .357 inside. Inside of a barn actually with the doors open. One shot, permanent hearing loss. That being said, I use a .357 for home defense because I like the caliber. I'm just saying permanent hearing loss is a real possibility and while auditory exclusion may mask the sound, it doesn't stop the damage.

 

[cp1969]

I don't think many people who are pointing out the "drawbacks" of .357 for home defense are saying they wouldn't use one. I think they are just responding to the question.

Now, I'm one who was unlucky enough to have to fire a .357 inside. Inside of a barn actually with the doors open. One shot, permanent hearing loss. That being said, I use a .357 for home defense because I like the caliber. I'm just saying permanent hearing loss is a real possibility and while auditory exclusion may mask the sound, it doesn't stop the damage.

True enough, but some people are more susceptible to hearing loss than others. You'd probably have suffered some hearing loss with a .38+P or 9mm if you'd fired it in the barn instead of a .357.

 

[johngalt]

Another point to consider: is the the desire to use a .357 based on wanting to use a powerful cartridge, or to use a revolver instead of an auto?

A 625 in .45 auto might be the best compromise. You get a powerful cartridge (much better than a .38), but not the flash and blast of a .357, and it's a revolver. That's what I did anyway.

 

[Sully]

I had the opportunity to buy a real nice pre-lock 686 with 4" barrel and so I did. At the range, I shoot both .38 Special +P and .357. Then I started to think about home defense. I've read so much about the danger of hearing loss from shooting a .357 indoors, how it's too much cartridge to use at home, and how a better choice would be a .38 Special +P like the 158 gr. LSWCHP - the FBI load. I have a problem with this way of thinking. If I must use my gun against a BG in my home, I want to stop him as quickly as possible, preferably with one shot. Why would I deny myself the undeniable stopping power of the .357 in favor of the less potent .38 Special +P (especially if I have a chance to throw my ear muffs on first!)? I own a .45 semi-auto too, but I like the reliability of the revolver. What good is owning a .357 if you don't use it for its intended purpose? Burning up ammo at the range? Plinking? What do you think?

First off the deal about hearing loss is a bunch of "manure". Sure you will lose some...if your shooting thousands of rounds without hearing protection inside....but your talking about self defense....so how many rounds do you intend on popping off at a BG..?

The difference between a 357 and a 38 Special +P at the receiving end isnt going to matter much at the close ranges you would use either at inside your home...so you might as well use the .357 ( Especially after I priced ammo. They act like 38 special +P is made of gold or something???)

The sort of people that will tell you that a 357 is too much gun to use for self defense are most probably using a .380!!....

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Very interesting stuff.

OK, I'm an old guy. My experience using handguns dates back to the late 1960's, in Vietnam clearing huts, bunkers, and tunnels with a .45 pistol. Then later as a cop, trading a few shots here and there with bad boys in apartments, houses, alleys, etc.

Here is what I have learned:

1. Discharging a handgun within a confined area results in enormous assaults on all the senses, including hearing, vision, smell, and bodily functions. These effects are not overcome quickly.

2. The more muzzle blast, muzzle flash, and noise caused by your handgun, the greater the effect it will have on your continuing ability to react to the situation at hand.

3. Recoil of the weapon can be a substantial factor, especially when using magnum ammunition. The ability to deliver a follow-up shot can be seriously diminished (especially when you are blinded by muzzle flash, deafened to the point of pain by muzzle blast, etc).

For personal defense in the home I recommend moderate and controllable loads, regardless of caliber. The less muzzle flash the better, the less muzzle blast the better, the less recoil the better, the less tendency to penetrate multiple walls and cause collateral damage the better (especially in an urban setting).

For me, hearing loss is a foregone issue and one that will never be overcome, so I worry little about that issue. I want accurate, controlled, and repeated hits on target when the defecation strikes the air conditioning. That means NO hot-dog magnum loads in my defensive handguns.

Of course, the use of a handgun means that I have already emptied my Remington 870, or couldn't get to it under the circumstances.

Your method may vary.

 

[brucev]

I have been shooting .357 S&W Magnum's for 30 years. With 125 gr. Rem. JHP (pedal point) it is a tremendous handgun for just about any purpose short of giant Kodiak bear, Moose and Caribou. It can easily handle any average man of maybe 200 lbs. more or less. In the early years of our marriage my wife and I lived in New Orleans in a high crime area. In a two year period we sustained three attempted break-in's. Two were settled with a 12 ga. pump shotgun. The third ended with a S&W M-59 handgun. No shots were fired. Not far away from where I worked a man broke into a home and was caught by the property owner in the kitchen where the property owner emptied a .357 revolver into the intruder. He then reloaded and fired 6 more shots. The intruder was very impressed by the first several shots. He had no further opinion of the other rounds fired. Load your 686 up with some quality 125 gr. JHP ammo. You don't have to fire 100 rds. of hot .357 ammo weekly to be effective. Spend time dry firing. Practice thoughtfully with .38 Special ammo. Occasionally fire magnum loads. You'll do just fine if and when the need arises.

 

[junkman]

Another point to consider: is the the desire to use a .357 based on wanting to use a powerful cartridge, or to use a revolver instead of an auto?

A 625 in .45 auto might be the best compromise. You get a powerful cartridge (much better than a .38), but not the flash and blast of a .357, and it's a revolver. That's what I did anyway.

I've thought about getting a 625 for the reasons you mention, but I don't like moon clips, and the availability of .45 AutoRim is limited.

 

[bk43]

Some years ago we turned off the lights at a friendly indoor range and shot .357 through a 4" gun. It was very informative and I'd urge anybody considering a .357 for home defense to give this a try. No need to take my word for this.

I will not use a .357 where the gun is likely to be used indoors at night. YMMV.

Bob

 

[Sully]

Some years ago we turned off the lights at a friendly indoor range and shot .357 through a 4" gun. It was very informative and I'd urge anybody considering a .357 for home defense to give this a try. No need to take my word for this.

I will not use a .357 where the gun is likely to be used indoors at night. YMMV.

Bob

Then the same concept would apply to a short barreled 9MM; any pistol firing 38+p's; 357 Mag...or even 45 ACP's ( I havent fired my new M629 after dark yet) Other than the sound of each..the muzzle flash is still enough to temporarily blind you. I guess with a 12 gauge you just close your eyes..??

 

[Sully]

...... Load your 686 up with some quality 125 gr. JHP ammo. You don't have to fire 100 rds. of hot .357 ammo weekly to be effective. Spend time dry firing. Practice thoughtfully with .38 Special ammo. Occasionally fire magnum loads. You'll do just fine if and when the need arises.

I agree completely!

 

[sgtvilla]

I've shot various firearms while wearing night vision devices. the flash looks a lot brighter.... even worse than a flash in the dark without them.... but so what? You need to be ready to fight in any situation.

 

[armsmaster270]

Another idea is the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo. effective and I believe it has flash suppressant powder.

I personally like the Federal 38 Spl 110gr +P+ Controlled expansion bullet if placed properly it is a proven performer

Here is one recovered from a burglar Miked @ .612 dia

 

[junkman]

The replies to my original post have been great! I've decided to go with the Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 Magnum for my 4" 686. It feels like a slightly de-tuned full-house 125 grainer. Thanks everybody!

 

[J.P.60]

Load up with Glasers or frangible bullets from any number of makers. They are not cheap - but, they are effective and don't over-penetrate.

 

[nebmike]

The replies to my original post have been great! I've decided to go with the Speer 135 gr. Gold Dot Short Barrel .357 Magnum for my 4" 686. It feels like a slightly de-tuned full-house 125 grainer. Thanks everybody!

Just a thought... if penetration through barriers is a big concern for you then keep in mind that, generally speaking, slower moving bonded bullets (like the 135 GD) will typically penetrate farther than faster moving fragile conventional semi-jacketed hollow points (like the Win, Fed, Rem 125's).

 

[Lost Lake]

My .357 loaded with 125gr hollow points has been moved to the closet, and my new M&P 40 has taken over the nightstand. I don't know why, just a new fling I guess!