Why would anyone buy a Sigma instead of a Glock?

[CR00258]

I had a Glock and then I bought a SW9VE. The S & W feels much better in my hand than the glock. I even have better accuracy with the S & W. People may bash S & W but in my opinion, the Glock is no better (or worse) than a S & W. I have shot around 2000 rounds through my S & W with no problems. I think its all a matter of preference.

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

The examples cited are all long out of patent protection. The Glock design was not out of patent protection. Had S&W gotten a license from Glock, they would have had no problems. Had they not infringed on Glock patents, they would not have settled with Glock. S&W was not sued for the equivalent of copying a idea, i.e., refrigerator. They were sued for patent infringement. That is why they were taken to court and that is why they ended up having to settle with Glock by changing their design and paying damages. If Glock were to start producing copies of the S&W M-10/13 that infringed on S&W patents, Glock would face the same legal consequences.

Reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit huh ? SW was sued for patent infringement on one (1) of glocks patents. Hence the modification of the area below the "sear" (whatever that was). SW paid some monetary compensation for infringing on the patent (singular, not plural) and everyone went merrily along on their own way. Why only one patent ? Probably because that was the only original design in the glock.

Again it doesn't matter if the patented design being copied is used in a refrigerator or toaster. The end product is irrelevant.

Thus the lawsuit still does not prove the Sigma is a Glock "copy". Lets look at what the definition of "copy" is :

cop·y (kp)
n. pl. cop·ies
1. An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter.
2. One specimen or example of a printed text or picture: an autographed copy of a novel.
3. Material, such as a manuscript, that is to be set in type.
4. The words to be printed or spoken in an advertisement.
5. Suitable source material for journalism: Celebrities make good copy.

Like I said, show me some Glock parts stuffed into a sigma and you might have some basis for your argument.

 

[Jim PHL]

I field stripped it last night and cleaned it completly, is this a common problem? is there something I could do to make this more reliable?

Bubba; First off, welcome to this forum. you can learn a lot about your S+W and a lot of other guns here.

I have zero direct experience with the Sigma but I will say this; upon buying a new in the box gun I would field strip, clean it and lube it before firing it for the first time. There are sometimes "machining leftovers" (tiny bits of plastic and/or metal) in there from the production process and it's also your first chance to inspect for any other obvious defects. I would also field strip after every range session at least the first few sessions anyway for the same reason. It is quick and easy to do this and even if it doesn't require a thorough cleaning this often, a field strip and at least a quick wipe down is not a bad idea. (I personally try to field strip, clean and lube after every range session but that's not necessary with all guns and from my reading here not the case with the Sigma - and please - not trying to turn this thread into a "How many rounds can you shoot between cleanings" thread, just trying to help Bubba.)

Your post says you field stripped it last night and completely cleaned it. Have you shot it since then and had the same results? If so, maybe a call to S+W customer service is in order. I'd give them a chance before you turn your back on the gun. The Sigma has developed quite a loyal following.

Good Luck

 

[GypsmJim]

OK, I really don't want to hijack this thread, but it looks like most of the heated discussions are over, so I'll jump in now.

Also, my only objective here is to learn something, not to bash.

I was planning to buy a Glock .45 this year. Why? Because its one of the few manufacturers I don't own. Also, maybe becasue of the hype on how good they are (atleast that's what my local gun guys say). I ended up finding a NIB pre-27, a nice Victory, and well, my interest in S&W was rekindled and my finances now precluded the Glock. I already had a 57, a 41 and a 39-2, so I'm not a stranger to S&W.

I was not familiar with the Sigma, however, so I'd like to gain a little insight.

I DO own a Ruger P-90 and a newer P-345 and I could speak very highly of both. So, my question is how do the Glock and Sigma compare to these two? When I say "compare", I mean accuracy, reliability, shootability, etc.

All I am asking for is opinions, and if anybody hates the Rugers I won't be offended.

 

[brucev]

Quote:
Originally Posted by brucev View Post
The examples cited are all long out of patent protection. The Glock design was not out of patent protection. Had S&W gotten a license from Glock, they would have had no problems. Had they not infringed on Glock patents, they would not have settled with Glock. S&W was not sued for the equivalent of copying a idea, i.e., refrigerator. They were sued for patent infringement. That is why they were taken to court and that is why they ended up having to settle with Glock by changing their design and paying damages. If Glock were to start producing copies of the S&W M-10/13 that infringed on S&W patents, Glock would face the same legal consequences.

Reading comprehension isn't your strongest suit huh ? SW was sued for patent infringement on one (1) of glocks patents. Hence the modification of the area below the "sear" (whatever that was). SW paid some monetary compensation for infringing on the patent (singular, not plural) and everyone went merrily along on their own way. Why only one patent ? Probably because that was the only original design in the glock.

Again it doesn't matter if the patented design being copied is used in a refrigerator or toaster. The end product is irrelevant.

Thus the lawsuit still does not prove the Sigma is a Glock "copy". Lets look at what the definition of "copy" is :

Quote:
cop·y (kp)
n. pl. cop·ies
1. An imitation or reproduction of an original; a duplicate: a copy of a painting; made two copies of the letter.
2. One specimen or example of a printed text or picture: an autographed copy of a novel.
3. Material, such as a manuscript, that is to be set in type.
4. The words to be printed or spoken in an advertisement.
5. Suitable source material for journalism: Celebrities make good copy.

Like I said, show me some Glock parts stuffed into a sigma and you might have some basis for your argument.
Last edited by WildCard ZX6R; Today at 05:58 PM.

In using the plural it is obvious that I committed an egregious factual error. Let me here beg the pardon of all concerned for this inexcusable error. I will most assuredly do my best to see to it that such a error is not again repeated.

When it comes to opinions, you are of course welcomed to your own opinion. Like noses, everyone has one. And if it is your opinion that S&W did not copy Glock, then you are fully entitled to your opinion, even if you are wrong. For if S&W had not considered their position at law untenable, they would not have settled with Glock by changing their design and paying money damages.

It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. In that light it must then be considered a most sincere compliment that S&W would simply imitate what Glock had developed. Further it is not hard to figure out why Glock parts are not found in Sigma pistols. Glock parts would have to be modified to fit the Sigma frame. The result would be the equivalent of a Frankenstiein Special which would not come close to that perfection which is the hallmark of Glock. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[brucev]

I am pretty new to guns and although the sigma is not my first purchase is could quilify as my first as I have not bought nor owned another pistol in over 15 years. i purchased my sigma 1-2-2010 and have since shot 275 shells through it(my girlfriend and I that is). the first 75 with no problems, then the next 150 I had 3 malfunctions(jams), 2 on shell loading into barrel and 1 with kick out of spent shell. I then cleaned the gun after that shooting,i did not field strip it but did take my time cleaning it completly. the last 50 shells through it this past weekend, it had 8 malfunctions(mixed). I field stripped it last night and cleaned it completly, is this a common problem? is there something I could do to make this more reliable? i bought this for home defense/ conceal carry. we take our class this saturday and I am going to RENT us BOTH a gun as I now have no confidence it shooting it. we purchased this gun do to its feel in BOTH our hands, caliber, looks, and more importantly at the time MONEY. We are planning on buying 2 more pistols in the very near future as money allows for conceal carry/backup. but now I am leaning to another brand as I can't just keep dropping cash until I find the one(two) right for us. thanks for any help with this issue.

also is there any gunsmithing someone could do to make it a better gun? trigger pull is heavy, specially for my 4'10" 105# girlfriend. any recommendations for a good gun for her?

Congratulations on you purchase. Although I have a preference for the Glock design, any reasonable person would affirm that the Sigma is a very good pistol. I do not own a Sigma. From what I've read of range reports, etc., the problems you are experiencing with your new pistol are atypical. Happily your Sigma pistol is covered under the excellent life-time S&W warranty. Contact them for instruction for how to return your pistol for warranty service. It will not cost you anything. They will fix your pistol and return it to you. If you mention the problems with the trigger pull, they will almost certainly give it their attention. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

When it comes to opinions, you are of course welcomed to your own opinion. Like noses, everyone has one. And if it is your opinion that S&W did not copy Glock, then you are fully entitled to your opinion, even if you are wrong. For if S&W had not considered their position at law untenable, they would not have settled with Glock by changing their design and paying money damages.

It is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. In that light it must then be considered a most sincere compliment that S&W would simply imitate what Glock had developed. Further it is not hard to figure out why Glock parts are not found in Sigma pistols. Glock parts would have to be modified to fit the Sigma frame. The result would be the equivalent of a Frankenstiein Special which would not come close to that perfection which is the hallmark of Glock. Sincerely. brucev.

Again, yes SW infringed on Glocks patent, obviously that is why they settled and payed the money. That is not in question.

Again, as was said in the other thread and this one multiple times; Glock took nearly every design feature in the pistol from other pistols. Who is imitating who ? SW ripping off a pistol which ripped off a bunch of other pistols. By your measure every polymer framed striker fired pistol is a glock copy even though glock was not the pioneer of ANY of the technologies or features present.

If the parts don't fit, then what does that tell you ? Its not a copy is what it tells me. To make statements that simply are not true and touting them as fact is a blatant disservice to everyone.

Like i have said before, there is nothing wrong with glock pistols. They don't work for me, if they do for you then great.

 

[Cruiser RN]

There is one reason not touched on that the LEO comunity went with Glock.Glock would lowball every bid and give more generous buy backs to get thier foot in the door.Now that the M+P is out many departments are going with it,because it is a far better and more adaptable sidearm...MIke

Everyone was already at the glock anyway. SW was trying to steal some of Glocks thunder is all and they are still trying although they are making some progress.

Glock stole every design feature in thier pistols, so i really don't understand why everyone thinks they were so "revolutionary". Image is what keeps glock on top, nothing else.

 

[dannybot]

Why would anyone buy a Sigma instead of a Glock?

Good question. I saw the deals offered on the Sigma, and it got me into the store. The wifey said I had no price limit on this purchase! So I could buy any 9mm I wanted! I looked at the Glock (I had shot many), didn't like the feel, but the trigger was OK. Held the Sigma, didn't like the feel, or the trigger. But that's me, if you like one get one.

I didn't like either, but S&W's marketing got me through the door, and I walked away with an M&P!

 

[BigRich315]

...I should also add that I have been looking at M&Ps, as well as the Sig P250 Compact. And while I am at it, I like the CZ 75 and '75 Compact. Anybody else with this problem? I still feel good about owning the SW9VE, and have no regrets.

Yeah, I have that exact problem, down to the models. I'm slowly collecting each one to someday decide which I like best

 

[highdesert45]

Good plan!

BigRich315, I like your attitude! Where to start...

 

[carbuncle]

I'd buy a Sigma over a Glock if money was a serious concern (I used to have one of the 1st Gen Sigmas, I didn't have any problems with it), but with the GSSF deal (where joining for $35 allows you to buy one Glock pistol per year at LE prices) making the 17, 19, 22 & 23 about $400 before tax I'm going to choose the Glock.

 

[bubba626]

sigma problems

Thanks for the replies on my problem. I just got off the phone with customer service and they are sending shipping info to me soon for the repairs needed.....hopefully this will take care of the issue. I like the gun and felt it has good accuracy, even for a beginner such as myself; I like the looks of it as well. Not going to be my only gun though, looking into something smaller for back-up or to use when to hot to conceal the sigma.
Any suggestions as to another semi for ankle or somewhere. I am looking at the pk380 what do you all think?

 

[brucev]

Again, yes SW infringed on Glocks patent, obviously that is why they settled and payed the money. That is not in question.

Again, as was said in the other thread and this one multiple times; Glock took nearly every design feature in the pistol from other pistols. Who is imitating who ? SW ripping off a pistol which ripped off a bunch of other pistols. By your measure every polymer framed striker fired pistol is a glock copy even though glock was not the pioneer of ANY of the technologies or features present.

If the parts don't fit, then what does that tell you ? Its not a copy is what it tells me. To make statements that simply are not true and touting them as fact is a blatant disservice to everyone.

Like i have said before, there is nothing wrong with glock pistols. They don't work for me, if they do for you then great.

With respect, S&W copied the Glock design. What they did was similar to how various manufacturers sought to evade the legal roadblock of the Rollins-White patten which S&W bought and used in their ground breaking No. 1 revolver. The No. 1 did not introduce the ideas of multiple chambers, percussion ignition, internal priming or fixed ammunition. These ideas were used by S&W, along with the Rollins-White patent, to produce the first commercially available revolver firing fixed ammunition. The No. 1 was not a new idea. It was a remarkable use of ideas that set the pattern for all future revolver design in the same way that the head-locking Mauser bolt action established the pattern for virtually all subsequent bolt-action rifle design. In the case of Glock, it is not that the design is unique. Polymer construction, Browning tilting barrel lock, striker firing, magazine feed, etc., are not new. The innovation of Glock was to use these ideas to produce a pistol that constitutes a sea change in handgun design and manufacturer. It is as significant a turning point as the development of stamped steel construction for firearms pioneered in WWII Germany, a process that today is used to produce modern firearms such as Sig, etc.

I am not aware that I have made any untrue statements. If I have been inaccurate, such error is entirely unintentional. I would not consciously act or desire to do disservice to anyone, most especially anyone who shares an interest in the ownership and use of firearms. I have sought to be accurate in everything I have written. However I am well capable of failure. I must assume that if I am not here in error, then I have at least not well expressed myself. I regret that I have caused trouble for this board. I beg your pardon. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[WildCard ZX6R]

In the case of Glock, it is not that the design is unique. Polymer construction, Browning tilting barrel lock, striker firing, magazine feed, etc., are not new. The innovation of Glock was to use these ideas to produce a pistol that constitutes a sea change in handgun design and manufacturer. It is as significant a turning point as the development of stamped steel construction for firearms pioneered in WWII Germany, a process that today is used to produce modern firearms such as Sig, etc.

I don't understand how you can admit that glock did not pioneer anything but then can say that the introduction of the pistol brought about significant change in pistol design or manufacture. If glock used existing design and methods of manufacture, by what measure is that innovation ?

I think you're confusing success with creativity.

 

[Steelhead]

I dry fired both-I liked the Glock trigger better
also The tenifer is an important feature as I'm in the water a lot
My little brother hase a 9mm Sigma-He loves it
Glock are good But They don't have a model 57 or 41 do they?

 

[hawkeye1142]

Why I chose a Sigma over a Glock.Well,let me see:
1.The grip feels better in my hand.
2.I like the trigger on the Sigma better than a Glock.
3.The Sigma is priced lower + a $50 rebate or 2 free mags.
4.I'll buy American over foreign any day of the week.

 

[FirebirdV8]

Any suggestions as to another semi for ankle or somewhere. I am looking at the pk380 what do you all think?

Another thing to consider for a smaller carry gun or a back-up gun is to get one in the same caliber, so you don't have to supply two types of self defense ammo. For 9mm, the 3913/3914/3953 or 69xx series would be worth a look. For 40 you could try the 4040/4013/4053/CS40. Also, don't forget about the compact models of the M&P series. You should be able to carry these smaller guns in an ankle holster or IWB comfortably in the summer.

 

[BigRich315]

BigRich315, I like your attitude! Where to start...

I started with the M&P40c (possibly the best carry line out there in any caliber you choose!), got it an SW40VE AF little brother, and will probably save up for the Sig next. Still just the tip of the iceburg though...

 

[Joe in SC]

I know of a couple guys who bought sigma's because the local gun emporium had them on sale for a lowball, loss-leader price. I fired one of them extensively, a 9mm version and I wouldn't trade my glock 23 for 3 of the darn things!