Winchester 244

[Collo Rosso]

New powder to play with. Winchester released W244 winclean, pistol powder for 38 spl., 9mm and 45acp. Sound familiar? Reloading info has already been published on-line.
Makes you wonder if W231 is going away as on Winchester's burn rate chart they show W231 as #29 and W244 at #31. I know, burn rate means little.
I've got lots of WST and CFE pistol for those calibers, so it will be a while before I look for some. Hopefully somebody here will try it and let us know how it does.

 

[SLT223]

On the burn chart it looks close to 231. In charge weghts it seems to load almost identically to Universal. I hope it’s basically a ball version of Universal. When I’m out of 231, I’ll give a go. It should replace the CSB1 I came to love during powder shortage.

 

[Nevada Ed]

It would be great if it filled the case a little more and also......
had more Energy to get higher fps out of the loads.

W231 is nice but it could be better.............

 

[Mike in Reedley]

The unofficial word from Hodgedon is 231 is going away. They can make Titegroup and 244 quicker and cheaper. I imagine HP38 is not long for the powder world either. I have enough 231 to last me.

I was a young man when 231 came out and remember trying to convince my Dad to try it. “You kids with your new fangled powders. If you can’t find a pistol load using either Bullseye, Unique or 2400, you shouldn’t be reloading”. He might have been right.

 

[cowboy4evr]

Check out Ramshot Zip . It’s right there on most burn rate charts with 231. I use it quite a bit on 45 colt loads and 38 spl . I have always preferred it over 231 .

 

[Ivan the Butcher]

I have 21 or 22 pounds of WW231, barring some calamity I should be leaving my kids some!

Ivan

 

[Wise_A]

On the burn chart it looks close to 231. In charge weghts it seems to load almost identically to Universal. I hope it’s basically a ball version of Universal. When I’m out of 231, I’ll give a go. It should replace the CSB1 I came to love during powder shortage.

Try AA#5. The only downside compared to Unique and Universal is that #5 is a bit less economical.

 

[SA1911]

Try Titegroup. You won't be sorry. Burns clean, meters superbly, and it's reliable. It's target powder. It ain't for loaders looking for max velocity.

 

[SA1911]

The unofficial word from Hodgedon is 231 is going away. They can make Titegroup and 244 quicker and cheaper. I imagine HP38 is not long for the powder world either. I have enough 231 to last me.

I was a young man when 231 came out and remember trying to convince my Dad to try it. “You kids with your new fangled powders. If you can’t find a pistol load using either Bullseye, Unique or 2400, you shouldn’t be reloading”. He might have been right.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bullseye discontinued. From what I've gleaned, competitive shooters are going to Titegroup.

I used to love Unique. I've switched to Power Pistol because it meters a whole lot better.

Unique won't go anywhere. It's popular with shotgunners.

 

[Collo Rosso]

For 9mm, 45acp and 38spl. plinking loads I favor WST. Mid range 357 and 44 magnum CFE pistol has been working really well. I used HS-6 for some time but it got hard to find.
I've been using my supply of W231/HP-38 after buying a 2.75" 69 for softer loads. Sorry to hear it's going away. Hodgdon (Winchester/IMR) powders seem to dominate the area here. Wonder how long it will be before I spot a bottle of W244.

 

[patjmc]

On the Hodgdon reloading site the load data for the .45 acp 200gr bullet that I load for, the starting and max loads for 231 and 244 are the same but with a little more speed using 244. It will take a while for me to use up all my 231 and hp38 before I try it.

 

[Wise_A]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Bullseye discontinued. From what I've gleaned, competitive shooters are going to Titegroup.

3.2 - 3.9 grains of Bullseye under a 200-grain LSWC is an incredibly common bullseye load. Nobody's much heard of Titegroup.

Also, BE's an Alliant product, TG is Hodgdon. Alliant's tried to replace BE with BE-86 (lolno) and Red Dot, but they're pretty much stuck with the old stuff.

 

[SA1911]

Wise A,

Check Websites of competitive shooters.

Bullseye is century-plus old technology. Titegroup is modern technology. And it burns a whole lot cleaner.

 

[mrchuck]

Attended the Palestine TX gunshow today

Traded into a Charles Daley 45 acp pistol. Immaculate shape and fit-up.
Can't find any marks that it has ever been fired.
So,,,another one that goes into the range bag for firing when the weather warms up to Springtime temps.
No ranges around here, so I drive West over to the Trinity River bottoms, where there are some gravel pit areas, ans shoot there.

 

[Nevada Ed]

per post #11;

They will print and say any thing to make you buy their powder....................

Just because the data shows a higher fps.......
and maybe less powder...........

(selling points)

only real world loads tested will tell if a new powder is worth its salt.
I was hoping for more case volume..........
TG already has the low volume powder amount, with a clean burn
down for the target guys.
W244 may be spinning its wheels ?

It will not be the first Winchester target powder to not pass our likes.

 

[cowboy4evr]

When looking at the load data on Hodgdon's site , be sure and check the barrel length of the test barrel . They use long barrels (8-10"is common) to up the velocity . In the real world , 4" is real common in revolvers and semi auto's so you won't get nearly as high of velocity as they show .
Bullseye is a " century " old powder but it's still around and the reason it's still around is because nothing else has come along that equals or is better to replace it . I have tried TG , but I had better accuracy with Bullseye or WST .

 

[Wise_A]

Wise A,

Check Websites of competitive shooters.

Bullseye is century-plus old technology. Titegroup is modern technology. And it burns a whole lot cleaner.

You might be confused.

Bullseye = powder
bullseye = NRA Precision Pistol

I'd also point out that Bullseye doesn't really burn any dirtier than Titegroup. It gets a bad rap for two reasons:

(1) People use Bullseye for light loads in low-pressure cartridges. When you do that, powders burn dirty.

(2) People use Bullseye overwhelmingly with lead bullets. Lubed lead bullets smoke--fact of life.

BE under a plated bullet in 9mm burns as clean as anything else.

But that's all beside the point, because it really doesn't matter how clean something is, or how old something is. To a lot of folks, the only thing that matters is group size at 50 yards.

PS -- I'm in the process of waving good-bye to Bullseye in favor of Accurate #2. Does everything I really need a fast powder for, meters ridiculously well, and is a little fluffier--great for when you're trying to load cartridges like .380.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

If W231 is really going away I might have to get some more. I only have ~12 lbs left from when the recent shortage started.

I have a feeling HS-6 isn't going to be around much longer since the release of W572. I'm in real trouble there, only 4 lbs left.

 

[Nevada Ed]

I had good luck with W571 in 38 special loads out of a 6" but
it took a lot more powder than the faster w231 powder.
Looking at Hodgdons data, a little less 244 is used in loading.

It will be interesting to see what shows up in the weeks ahead.

 

[boatbum101]

Dang I'm glad I've got 2 8lbers of W231 unopened . Sounds like I'd better get on the stick & get a couple of Bullseye and maybe WST . BTW I'm an old 2700 shooter & I use VVN-310 , Bullseye for my 45acp loads , WST & W231 for my 38 special loads . Don't fool with 9mm or 38 Super yet .