With all of the talk of self defense,

[Horseapple]

Who has been in a real life self defense situation ?

Curious as to how barrel length, sights, caliber, load, holster type and location would have changed the outcome?

Thanks Horseapple

 

[brucev]

Blundered up on a dope deal back in 1980. They shot ... ineffectively. I ran. While in the home of a client, the boyfriend pulled a butcher knife out from under the cushion on the sofa. That living room was just to small for him and me. We tumbled out the front door into the yard. I got the knife away. He ran to the car and got another. Got that one away. Police finally arrived. Also had a teenager in my church youth group get cranky one Wednesday afternoon. He had a kitchen knife in his boot. He didn't know what he was doing with it. I got it away. Nowadays ... now such excitement. Haven't had a incident since 1995. Cool. Sincerely. bruce.

 

[Echo40]

I remember it well... It was in the year nineteen ought eleventy ninety-six... I had just saddled my hawg and was about to hit up the local speak-easy when I was accosted by the Crackerjack Boys who were on the run from the Pinkertons. Clearly they were desperate and suffering from caramel corn withdrawal so they were looking to make a score by shaking down road ramblers like me before they got outta Dodge and into a Chevy.

Unfortunately, I was armed only with a low capacity M1911A1 Defender Commander Officer loaded with 230gr FMJ, so I lacked the necessary capacity to lay down suppressive fire required to fall back to a strategically advantageous position, so immediately I shifted from mindset Manitoba to mindset Saskatchewan and drilled 3 shots COM into their leader, the infamous Cracker Jackie Onassis, but he was wearing a heavy winter coat which stopped all of the bullets DRT. Jackie returned fire with his signature weapon, the MBA Gyrojet Pistol, but those tiny rockets were ineffective at such close range, and they deflected right off of my heavy denim vest. However, their new course lead them directly into a glass of gin which was clasped firmly in the hand of Whiskey Tango Romeo, the infamous leader of the Buttercream Gang who held a grudge against Jackie over a deal gone bad.
From there it was complete pandemonium, bullets flying everywhere accompanied by foul language. I took one directly in my keaster, the other in my earlobe, (both considered mortal wounds at the time) but I managed to escape into the mountains, was nursed back to health by a pack of werewolves, married the chief's daughter Luna Runningbear, and retired to a quiet life of a Data Entry Operator.

Lesson learned, I retired my 1911 for a Calico Liberty III loaded with 115gr Hertenberger Buscadero Ticondas, and now I carry no less than three 50 round drum magazines on my belt at all times. With modern ballistics technology, 9mm Parabellum is just as effective as a 12 Gauge Slug, so I'm much better armed now then I was back then.

>_>
<_<

What? Someone was bound to come in here and start telling tall tales anyway, so I figured that I would make light of it.

Seriously though, the average law-abiding civilian is highly unlikely to ever get into a gun fight, and when they do, it's usually over within 3 shots. Most thugs are just looking for an easy target, someone who will give into their demands so that they can get what they want and make a quick, easy getaway. Most will flee at the mere sight of a gun, (any gun) the rest will scatter at the sound of a gunshot and the sight of a muzzle flash like the vermin they are. Only the crazy or desperate ones stick around and thry require no more force to stop than any other threat, so as long as you do your part, you'll be just fine with whatever it is you're carrying.

Contrary to what some may assert, there is no such thing as the ideal, one-size-fits-all platform for self-defense, so the best that anyone can do is work with what they've got, find what works for them, train until they become proficient with it, and use it to the best of their ability in the unfortunate event in which it should actually be needed. I guarantee that will serve anyone far better than the guy who is constantly swapping out his carry gun in accordance with the latest trends in pursuit of the illusive ideal.

 

[dmthomp32]

I have never had an experience that required me to have carried. I have had several situations that could have turned bad enough to warrant a draw, thankfully they didn't. Since I started carrying about 8 years ago, no situations but I also avoid a lot of bad situations and locations these days. I've got to many kids to worry about. I was witness to my father getting into a situation when I was about 8 or 9. He went to the neighbor' house (old widow living by herself), as a vehicle full of strange guys showed up and were circling her house. My dad took his .38 special snubby in the waistband of his pants with him to investigate the situation. It was the only handgun we had at the time. Not sure what good it would have been with only five shots, when there were 4-5 guys there! However it all worked out, the lady wasn't home and these guys were happy to leave. I'm 40 now but that still sticks in my mind.

Sent from my Pixel 3a XL using Tapatalk

 

[Inusuit]

The only defensive use of handgun that occurred in our family was when two miscreants attempted to break in to my daughter-in-law's apartment through a ground floor window.

My son was on a wildland fire. DIL heard noises, turned on the light, indicated with her cell phone that she was calling the police. No response from the burglars.

She retrieved my son's handgun, a Kel Tec P11. The immediate reaction, the bad guys beat feet. No shots fired. No one injured. Good outcome.

So none of the OP's questions have any relevance in this situation.

 

[Racer X]

The only defensive use of handgun that occurred in our family was when two miscreants attempted to break in to my daughter-in-law's apartment through a ground floor window.

My son was on a wildland fire. DIL heard noises, turned on the light, indicated with her cell phone that she was calling the police. No response from the burglars.

She retrieved my son's handgun, a Kel Tec P11. The immediate reaction, the bad guys beat feet. No shots fired. No one injured. Good outcome.

So none of the OP's questions have any relevance in this situation.

As the owner of a Kel Tec P11, I can safely say, it is fortunate that she never had to fire. The trigger pull is so long, it takes roughly 2.3 days to pull the trigger far enough for it to fire. GREAT as a back-up to a S&W 5906 or 6906, whose magazines will also fit the P11.

I did need to pull my 439 one dark night. My attacker tried to stab me with what was likely a screwdriver. He took off fast when he saw the pistol.

 

[lihpster]

Call me Lucky, but I have never been in a position where I felt threatened enough to even put my hand on my gun, much less draw and shoot. I attribute that to situational awareness. Both knowing the situation around me and knowing which situations to never get involved in. Got better at it as I got older. Also I tend to not look like an easy target. Get me angry and I'm one of those situations to avoid.
That said, the #1 rule of gunfighting? Have a gun. See Zebra War Wagon's post. After that, it's compromises to find what works best for you and then train, train, train.

 

[DeplorabusUnum]

When I was much younger (1981), my brother's wife was pregnant with their second girl, and she decided to go out with some friends for a girls night out on the town. They went to a small, loud watering hole in town called The Oregon Museum. Everyone was having a great time when they heard a pop, pop, pop, which repeated a few times. Then it stopped. Most people thought it was firecrackers until some began to notice people lying on the floor bleeding. The shooter by that time had reloaded and continued to fire on the crowd. Eventually he was overpowered by a couple of guys who wrestled him to the ground, but not before he had shot 23 people, killing 4.

These things are so rare, but that one hit very close to home. I always carry now when we go for a night out anywhere. I always try to sit facing the crowd. I'll never assume that loud bangs are firecrackers and ignore it. There's just too much angst out there these days to let your guard down. You can't lose awareness of your situation. Always better to have a sidearm and not need it than the reverse.

I am indeed fortunate that I've never needed to even draw my gun, and I hope I never have to.

 

[foggbird]

My wife and a girl friend decided to drive from California to Indiana to see the girlfriend's family. Two 20 somethings on a long drive, so I urged her to take my S&W M. 37. She didn't want to. I said keep it in your purse, ignore it unless you need it, it won't go off unless you pull the trigger hard. At a gas station off the road, a bunch of guys started gathering around them. My wife pulled out the S&W and the guys disappeared.

 

[biku324]

Our membership isn't big enough. 2018 saw just over 300 justifiable homicides by citizen in a population of 330-some million. FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

 

[Rpg]

On a few occasions I've used a gun to defend loved ones - bird dogs ............. from rattlesnakes.

Once I used a 20 ga Beretta O/U. On the other 3 occasions I used a Colt Woodsman.

Does that count?

 

[Oldfrt]

About a year ago I was returning from the range I had my 460V strapped to me chest. A freind of my son had pulled up past our houses pulled the keys from her car and ran into the house my son was staying in. I pulled up not knowing any of this and some guy started giving me grief until I turned from the trunk of my car and faced him straight on. His attitude changed real quick and quietly walked away. Good thing he left, the only loaded ammunition I had was the 5 rounds in the revolver (3 45LC 250 grains FP, 1 454 casuel 300 grain XTP and 1 460 magnum 300 grains XTP magnum), everything else was empty.

 

[Protected One]

Christmas eve 2015 I was meeting a carpet cleaner at a vacant rental property we owned. As I got out of my car, a neighbors grown son who I'd had trouble with in the past was parked nearby, and seeing me he immediately got out and started following me, all the while spouting off about how he was going to beat me down.

When I stopped and turned to face him, he stopped (about 5yrds away) and slowly reached into his coat while saying he had a dessert eagle and was going to shoot me. Before he could draw his hand out I had cleared my coat and had a firm grip on the glock 23 I was carrying at 4:00. My reaction must have surprised him because he froze....hand still inside coat, and without removing his hand he slowly backed away to the door of their condo and went inside - all the while still talking trash.

I think he was bluffing and trying to scare me. Don't think it had occurred to him that I might be carrying - for real! Had his hand started moving out of that coat I would have drawn and fired.

 

[Echo40]

In my personal experience, the guys who go around constantly threatening others are full of hot air, particularly inside their cranium, as they are seemingly oblivious to the very concept that they're placing themselves in danger by running their mouths off like that.

Seriously, there are no shortage of ways for folks who go around threatening others all the time to get into trouble, drawing attention to themselves from all sides, putting everyone on edge, it's bound to go badly for them somehow, someday. They could threaten the wrong guy, be it a good guy who simply takes the threats seriously, or a bad guy who simply responds to threats with violence regardless, they could even end up arrested and imprisoned for a crime they didn't even commit just because someone they were harassing ended up getting murdered by someone else but they took their threats too far, that someone else overheard them, and did exactly as the threats were described to throw suspicion on the one who made them. But a fool would never consider any of the possibilities, they just run their mouths, thinking they can say whatever they like without any consequences, and when something inevitably happens as a result, nobody cares because its awfully hard to make any friends acting that way, or even remaining neutral enough for someone to stand up for them on principle.

 

[Ziggy2525]

Our membership isn't big enough. 2018 saw just over 300 justifiable homicides by citizen in a population of 330-some million. FBI — Expanded Homicide Data Table 15

The FBI unified crime report is hanging somewhere around 1.2 million reported aggravated felony assaults annually where the victim was severely injured. 3,300 a day. That's just what's getting reported back to the FBI.

There's 250 million adults in the U.S. (likely victims), so there's what, a 1 in 200 chance of being a victim of a felony assault in any given year. And the FBI report is only the assaults that actually happened, not ones that were preempted by defensive use of a weapon. Those odds don't seem so trivial.

 

[Protected One]

In my personal experience, the guys who go around constantly threatening others are full of hot air, particularly inside their cranium, as they are seemingly oblivious to the very concept that they're placing themselves in danger by running their mouths off like that.

Seriously, there are no shortage of ways for folks who go around threatening others all the time to get into trouble, drawing attention to themselves from all sides, putting everyone on edge, it's bound to go badly for them somehow, someday. They could threaten the wrong guy, be it a good guy who simply takes the threats seriously, or a bad guy who simply responds to threats with violence regardless, they could even end up arrested and imprisoned for a crime they didn't even commit just because someone they were harassing ended up getting murdered by someone else but they took their threats too far, that someone else overheard them, and did exactly as the threats were described to throw suspicion on the one who made them. But a fool would never consider any of the possibilities, they just run their mouths, thinking they can say whatever they like without any consequences, and when something inevitably happens as a result, nobody cares because its awfully hard to make any friends acting that way, or even remaining neutral enough for someone to stand up for them on principle.

There's a lot of truth in what you said there. This particular person misinterpreted the fact that in the past I had done everything I could to avoid engaging him. He thought it was out of "fear", when actually I was trying to avoid hurting him.
Finally, I had had enough, and when I turned to face him it was with the intention of letting him know that if he wants to fight - today is his lucky (actually "unlucky") day. Once he saw the disposition on my face I think he decided on a different scare tactic...one that almost cost him his life.

My wife told me later that she was proud of me for not shooting him...or beating the **** out of him. I told her that there was no need: my actions stopped the incident. One day he WILL tick off the wrong person, and they won't be so disciplined.

 

[Muss Muggins]

It's been my lifetime experience that the number, volume, spread, number of targets, and predicated violence of threats increases exponentially once the threatener is in handcuffs . . .

In my personal experience, the guys who go around constantly threatening others are full of hot air, particularly inside their cranium, as they are seemingly oblivious to the very concept that they're placing themselves in danger by running their mouths off like that.

Seriously, there are no shortage of ways for folks who go around threatening others all the time to get into trouble, drawing attention to themselves from all sides, putting everyone on edge, it's bound to go badly for them somehow, someday. They could threaten the wrong guy, be it a good guy who simply takes the threats seriously, or a bad guy who simply responds to threats with violence regardless, they could even end up arrested and imprisoned for a crime they didn't even commit just because someone they were harassing ended up getting murdered by someone else but they took their threats too far, that someone else overheard them, and did exactly as the threats were described to throw suspicion on the one who made them. But a fool would never consider any of the possibilities, they just run their mouths, thinking they can say whatever they like without any consequences, and when something inevitably happens as a result, nobody cares because its awfully hard to make any friends acting that way, or even remaining neutral enough for someone to stand up for them on principle.

 

[OLDSTER]

In 1993, while volunteering for our local sheriff posse, I accompanied 2 deputies one evening to serve a warrant on a guy who was thought to be cooking meth. at an old farmstead NW of here. The three of us stood in the open with our handguns drawn and held behind our backs so as not to look threatening while a deputy used a bull horn. All of a sudden, the door flew open and a yapping little dog bolted out followed by this guy blasting away with, what turned out to be a Ruger .22. Everything happened so fast that all I can recall is jumping for cover behind our SUV, while the two deputies also ran for cover, and impressively returning fire . When it was all over ( 10 seconds and 25 feet at the most ) the guy was on the ground, hit once in the hip and once in the groin ( full recovery was made ). Fortunately, I had not fired. What I remember most was, as backup asked a few questions, and the ambulance hauled the guy away ; the three of us leaning against the SUV, shaking, and smoking cigarettes. I'll guarantee you the last thing on our minds was barrel length, sights, trigger pull, recoil, load, holster. etc.

 

[glenwolde]

1980, working the night shift at a packaging plant. Sound asleep about 11:00 AM in my little city apartment when I am brought half-awake by a knock on the door. I ignore it.

A little while later there's a heavier pounding and I realize somebody is in my apartment. I shoot out of bed and grab the only gun I owned, a Model 17.

I step into the living room, assume a modified weaver stance in my BVD's and throw down on a maintenance man accompanied by the young lady from the leasing office.

The maintenance man drops his AC filter and raises his hands, the leasing agent screams and wets herself. I lower my weapon. They leave. I get dressed, I'm awake now.

Turns out he tried to open the door but could not due to the (painted 14 times) flip lock on the door that barely worked. He went back and got the leasing agent. They decided the door was "stuck" and she told him to put his shoulder to it.

The leasing agent failed to check the notes that said I was a day-sleeper and not to enter my apartment before 2:00 PM. Never saw her again. They came and shampooed my carpet.

 

[Echo40]

There's a lot of truth in what you said there. This particular person misinterpreted the fact that in the past I had done everything I could to avoid engaging him. He thought it was out of "fear", when actually I was trying to avoid hurting him.
Finally, I had had enough, and when I turned to face him it was with the intention of letting him know that if he wants to fight - today is his lucky (actually "unlucky") day. Once he saw the disposition on my face I think he decided on a different scare tactic...one that almost cost him his life.

My wife told me later that she was proud of me for not shooting him...or beating the **** out of him. I told her that there was no need: my actions stopped the incident. One day he WILL tick off the wrong person, and they won't be so disciplined.

Fools always misinterpret restraint as fear because they themselves are so impulsive that they simply cannot comprehend restraint.

One thing that has persistently puzzled me throughout life is how they fail to recognize danger. I've often said that a fool wouldn't recognize Death itself if it were standing directly in front of them, namely because I have been in a few situations in life in which someone nearly pushed me over the edge, yet clearly had no idea. I actually had to quit a job once due to an abusive boss who wouldn't stop harassing me, one night I almost snapped and threw a rather heavy object directly at his face, but I got a hold of myself at the last second. The worst part was that he clearly hadn't even realized how much danger he was in, despite me having my arm drawn back in a throwing position and my face contorted in an expression of pure wrath, it had barely fazed him at all. So I quit because I knew he was too stupid to stop, he would have just kept right on doing it. In hindsight, I should have quit sooner, I tolerated that guy's abuse for a good year and a half, much too long.

That was over 10 years ago. I have no idea where he is now or how he's doing, but assuming he remained the same afterwards, I would be surprised if he hasn't gotten at least a good throttling by now.