Wolff "Power Rib" Type 2 reduced power Mainsprings

[JayHutch]

Gang - revolver guru's,

Funny, I always was a semi auto guy, but for some reason last year I wanted a Model 686. Couldn't find a pre-ILS 686 at a reasonable price, so I ended up with a new 686-6+. Other than the write up I did here on the SWF on how incredibly dirty it was Brand New in the Box, it's a GREAT gun. Fun to shoot, and can even "plink" with .38's. Also can be used defensively. A great camp gun with 4" barrel. That's a versatile combination, and I'm all for not stocking more calibers of ammo! Well naturally a few more .357 magnums followed, along with a couple Marlin levers in .357. Man, it happens fast when you get that "bug" huh? Sorry for the lead in - my point?

While I was ordering Wolff's Springs for an older Model 539 semi auto I have afflicted with a DA trigger pull somewhat akin to a staple gun, I picked up some Wolff "power rib" reduced power revolver mainsprings. I always wanted to try them in my M 13, M 586 & M 686. I'm interested in feedback from any SWF members who have used these Wolff Springs, and their opinion as to any reliability trade-off's.

Frankly the DA triggers on my old Model 13-2 & Model 586 (no dash) are so sweet I may not screw with them. The new 686+ is quite a bit heavier. My 686-6+ is fun on the range, but maybe fun-er with a lighter trigger pull. BUT the 686+ is part of my "upstairs" HD. I don't want to do anything to affect reliability. One can deal with an occasional light primer strike at the range, but don't want light primer strikes in a HD situation. Maybe should leave it heavy?

I suspect there are those of you out there who have used and tested the Wolff Springs and have all sorts of opinions on the subject. Please lemmmeknow if you do. - hutch

 

[TAROMAN]

Wolff springs run great in any number of my revolvers.
Recently, I sent a DAO Model 64 in to the Performance Center for the "Combat Revolver" package.
Guess what? it came back with new Wolff springs installed.

 

[TheTinMan]

I have Wolff reduced power mainsprings in almost all of my S&W revolvers.

I believe that it is worth an investment in two things:
Jerry Kuhnhausen's book on S&W revolvers
Trigger pull gauge

Newer S&W double action trigger pulls seem to consistently top 12 pounds, plus they generally are not smooth. Dry firing a thousand times may help with the smoothness, but a spring change will help as well.

It is possible to lighten double action trigger pull by replacing and shortening the mainspring tension screw (except on J-frames). However, I believe that is more likely to result in light primer strikes than the Wolff reduced power mainsprings.

Others will tell you that you would be irresponsible to lighten the springs in any self-defense revolver and that you open yourself up to additional liability.

 

[JayHutch]

Wolff springs run great in any number of my revolvers.
Recently, I sent a DAO Model 64 in to the Performance Center for the "Combat Revolver" package.
Guess what? it came back with new Wolff springs installed.

WOW - Wolff springs from S&W Performance Center. That's pretty cool. I'm gonna try them today. - hutch

 

[Hapworth]

By consensus, Wolff makes the best springs.

Per Wolff's recommendation, I don't use their reduced power mainsprings on any piece that might see defensive use. I figure they know their springs pretty well and their suggestion is advised.

This doesn't mean you can't use a reduced power mainspring and still enjoy perfect ignition reliability -- you can, either by luck in some cases, quality action tuning, trial-and-error with factory ammo, loading your own, or any combination thereof -- but I'd rather stack the deck in favor of complete reliability.

I also don't think lighter is always better in trigger pull, but I always prefer smoother.

New springs without a well-smoothed action will only serve to underscore snags in the action, so look at this as a systems approach and plan to improve a couple things at once, if you go this route.

Or just shoot, shoot, shoot...

 

[Mike McLellan]

I have put Wolff mainsprings, (and rebound slide springs) in most of my revolvers. Examining the mainspring will show that its indented design has the same effect as shortening the rounded end of the strain screw. If, by chance, a previous owner has filed the end of the strain screw to lighten the pull, the addition of a Wolff spring, in addition to the filing can reduce the power to the point that light strikes are a certainty. The springs are terrific, but take a look at the screw before you install them. If the end is flat, the spring may be a bad idea.

 

[Imaposer]

This doesn't mean you can't use a reduced power mainspring and still enjoy perfect ignition reliability -- you can, either by luck in some cases, quality action tuning, trial-and-error with factory ammo, loading your own, or any combination thereof -- but I'd rather stack the deck in favor of complete reliability.

I agree, and this is why I retain the factory spring in all of my SD revolvers. Even if testing shows that the gun is still getting reliable ignition with reduced power mainsprings, buy reducing the energy that the hammer has to impart on the FP, you have obviously moved closer to the point where it wouldn't. How close? Who knows? It could be that just a little bit of fouling under the extractor star or something could make the difference when you really need it to work. Just that little margin is enough for me to sacrifice that super light trigger pull for.

 

[ogilvyspecial]

I have a few K & L Frames with Wolff "PowerRib" mainsprings and found
that I couldn't use Pachmayr, Gripper, grips on them due to the fact
that the raised rib interferred with the grip screw.

On one gun I couldn't get the screw past the mainspring and on another,
a 2009 686SSR, which came stock (I bought it new) with a "ribbed"
mainspring that looked to be a Wolff to me, I could get the screw
in but when the spring bowed back, under tension, it hit the screw.

On the SSR, the gun was working fine and since the grip screw cleared
the spring during installation I thought I was good to go, that is until I
tried dry firing it a few times to check function and had a problem
with the hammer not going fully back, then hanging up. This didn't
happen on every trigger pull, it was an intermittant thing.

When I seen that I reverted back to my "work days" and asked
myself, what, if anything, changed? It was then that I did some
checking and found out what was happening. I went back to the
stock SSR Grips and the hammer problem went away.

I don't know if the Wolff Type 2, which the OP is talking about is the
ribbed type or not. I just thought I would relate my experience as an FYI.

 

[mikeydio]

Mike McClellan called good money on the strain screw. If you go with the Wolff Power Rib spring, you should start out with a new strain screw, which is just a couple of bucks from Brownell's. I found that most of mine were too short from the factory to use with the Wolff spring. If you have the skills to get inside your revolver, make sure that you have no pins protruding from the sides of your hammer or trigger that would drag on the inside of the frame or sideplate. Also making sure the internal parts are clean and lightly lubed with also help smooth out your trigger pull.

Mike

 

[TheTinMan]

I've also had really good success adding hammer pin and/or trigger pin shims on some revolvers where there was obvious wear on parts. Especially where the area on the frame or sideplate right around the hammer pin/trigger pin looks rough or uneven. On one really rough 25-2, I think I ended up using as many as 3 shims on the right side of the hammer and 1 on the left.

 

[JayHutch]

Thanks to all who responded. I put the Wolff reduced power mainspring in a brand new 686-6+. No wear of any kind on this one. Only had a few hundred rounds thru the barrel, but the trigger pull was pretty heavy. Smooth, but heavy. I already had torn her down and slicked it up before I ever shot her.

What an amazing difference. Almost seems lighter than my two old .357's. I'm not going to put them in my 586 no dash, or my older 13-2. They are already smooth and light enough. Need to get a bunch of rounds downfield to be sure I'm not getting any light primer strikes. It almost feels too light, if that's possible.

Question: The shape of that Wolff spring may make the standard power Wolff feel softer that the original equipment S&W mainspring. Anybody simply replace the S&W factory part wit a regular power Wolff? That may be enough on its own?

- hutch

 

[BobR1]

I have a Wolfe Full Power Ribed Mainspring in my 686-5. With the strain screw cranked down the trigger pull is not bad. It is not as light as some of my other tuned Smith & Wesson Revolvers however.
I believe it is lighter than the factory spring.

This is my new IDPA SSR gun, and I am still tweaking it.
I ordered an Apex extended Firing Pin for it first. It was too pointed on the nose end to suit me. I have a Cylinder & Slide Extended Length Firing Pin on order from Midway that should be in today. I wanted the new Firing Pin on hand before I started working with the Main Spring setting.

Ron Power "Power Custom" has done his Majic to the 686-5 already. It has perfect Cylinder Alignment on all 6 holes. The Cylinder Gap is perfect. The Chambers have been Chamfered. Ball Loc has been installed. It has been polished and tweaked here and their to perfection.

I will probably retain the Full Power Ribbed Spring in the 686-5. The plan will be to start backing it off in 1/4 turn increments until I start having ignition problems, or like the way the trigger feels, keeping track of exactly how much I back the strain screw off. If I back the strain screw off till I have misfires I will then crank it back in 1/4 to 1/2 Turn. I will then BLUE Loc Tite the strain screw with it reset to the backed off position. I will test fire it again before the BLUE Loc Tite sets up.

Another thing, I will load the test ammo with CCI or my old stock Silver Winchester primers for the testing. I load all my match ammo with Federal which are easier to set off than CCI or Winchester Silver primers.

The 686-5 is getting close to completed, I am still waiting on my Cylinder & Slide Fiber Optic Front Sight, which is on back order.


Bob

 

[Stainz]

The regular Wolff hammer spring is lighter than the OEM flat spring. I believe that the 'Type 2' is just what we did call the 'Reduced Power' spring. Check to see if the screw intrudes into that hump - it may be 'too good' of a DA pull! I use a 1/2" Allen-headed set screw in place of the OEM screw in my 617 - check via search fcn for the write-up here. You need a certain minimum hammer hit energy to reliably pop most primers - more for rimfire.

Merry Christmas!

Stainz

 

[JayHutch]

I have a Wolfe Full Power Ribed Mainspring in my 686-5. With the strain screw cranked down the trigger pull is not bad. It is not as light as some of my other tuned Smith & Wesson Revolvers however.
I believe it is lighter than the factory spring.

This is my new IDPA SSR gun, and I am still tweaking it.
I ordered an Apex extended Firing Pin for it first. It was too pointed on the nose end to suit me. I have a Cylinder & Slide Extended Length Firing Pin on order from Midway that should be in today. I wanted the new Firing Pin on hand before I started working with the Main Spring setting.

Ron Power "Power Custom" has done his Majic to the 686-5 already. It has perfect Cylinder Alignment on all 6 holes. The Cylinder Gap is perfect. The Chambers have been Chamfered. Ball Loc has been installed. It has been polished and tweaked here and their to perfection.

I will probably retain the Full Power Ribbed Spring in the 686-5. The plan will be to start backing it off in 1/4 turn increments until I start having ignition problems, or like the way the trigger feels, keeping track of exactly how much I back the strain screw off. If I back the strain screw off till I have misfires I will then crank it back in 1/4 to 1/2 Turn. I will then BLUE Loc Tite the strain screw with it reset to the backed off position. I will test fire it again before the BLUE Loc Tite sets up.

Another thing, I will load the test ammo with CCI or my old stock Silver Winchester primers for the testing. I load all my match ammo with Federal which are easier to set off than CCI or Winchester Silver primers.

The 686-5 is getting close to completed, I am still waiting on my Cylinder & Slide Fiber Optic Front Sight, which is on back order.


Bob

Love to see that wheel gun Bob. Gonna give us any gun porn? - hutch

 

[johngalt]

I have the type 2 main spring and a reduced power trigger return spring in my 686. It makes a big difference in trigger pull. It is not 100% reliable with CCI primers - I get about 1 failure per 100 rounds. It is 100% reliable with Federal primers. It has also been 100% reliable with Federal ammo, including their personal defense magnum ammo. I forget the specific name on the box, but it was a 130 gr hollow point.

 

[johngalt]

The regular Wolff hammer spring is lighter than the OEM flat spring. I believe that the 'Type 2' is just what we did call the 'Reduced Power' spring. Check to see if the screw intrudes into that hump - it may be 'too good' of a DA pull! I use a 1/2" Allen-headed set screw in place of the OEM screw in my 617 - check via search fcn for the write-up here. You need a certain minimum hammer hit energy to reliably pop most primers - more for rimfire.

Merry Christmas!

Stainz

When I put the type 2 spring in mine, I did notice that the screw intrudes into the hump on the spring. I've wondered if I should be concerned about that. I get 100% ignition with federal primers so I haven't done anything about it, but now I'm thinking I should get a longer screw and try it out.

 

[JayHutch]

When I put the type 2 spring in mine, I did notice that the screw intrudes into the hump on the spring. I've wondered if I should be concerned about that. I get 100% ignition with federal primers so I haven't done anything about it, but now I'm thinking I should get a longer screw and try it out.

I was thinking the same thing. Where will you look for a longer strain screw? I can't seem to find anything. - hutch

 

[jaymoore]

BTW, this is a good time of year to test ignition reliability if you have access to an outdoor range. I had an instance where it was sub-freezing and the revolver started getting misfires after having made a spring change the day before. Set it aside as it was too cold to fool with it, but a few hours later when it had warmed up some it worked fine. Swapped out mainsprings again and the next time it didn't miss a beat in the coldness. For most range purposes, the cold probably isn't a factor, but for a defensive or hunting revolver it could be quite important...

 

[JayHutch]

BTW, this is a good time of year to test ignition reliability if you have access to an outdoor range. I had an instance where it was sub-freezing and the revolver started getting misfires after having made a spring change the day before. Set it aside as it was too cold to fool with it, but a few hours later when it had warmed up some it worked fine. Swapped out mainsprings again and the next time it didn't miss a beat in the coldness. For most range purposes, the cold probably isn't a factor, but for a defensive or hunting revolver it could be quite important...

GREAT idea jaymoore! By the way, it seems the Wolff spring could create a problem as the strain screw sits inside that rib. Wouldn't that effectively shorten the strain screw? Combined with a lighter type II mainspring there may not be enough tension?

Everything I find on SWF seems pretty old. Just wondering if a longer strain screw with the type II Wolff would actually be the way to go? Any thoughts? - hutch

 

[jaymoore]

Try the spring "as is" and see if its OK. Quite frankly, I don't think there's any Wolff mainsprings left in my own revolvers. Several do have Wolff trigger return springs, though.

It's way slower, but most of my high use, go-fast revolvers have factory mainsprings that have been hand polished with stones and uber fine grit wet&dry sandpaper. (Some upwards of 1000 grit if you want to know the level of insanity.) Width gets narrowed to reduce pull and then the sides repolished.