Would any cop today feel an advantage with a .357 Magnum revolver?

[Az. revolver fan]

While I prefer S&W revolvers for everything now that I am retired. There is absolutely nothing wrong with Glock handguns. My dept. never had any negative incidents with this weapon. The Glock armorer's course is also quite impressive. Glock's proprietary treatment of the steels used in the weapon renders them way more corrosion resistant than any stainless steel weapon. Glocks may be the most durable and reliable handguns made. The earlier post is right, however, once Glock made their R&D and initial tooling start-up costs back, they were able to "low-ball" their way into dept. after dept. with outrageous trade-in deals. I personally prefer the Beretta 96 as a semi-auto for my private use only because I am more accurate with it. As far as Taurus goes, I have never heard of any dept. that has used or approved for use this make of handgun.

 

[Cheyenne WYO]

I've owned two Glocks, and they work, but UNLESS you are going to train extensively with them, they are not a good choice. Try reholstering when you're rolling around with someone or after a three block foot pursuit. The "Gloks are just like a revolver" comments are nonsense, unless the revolver in question has the hammer cocked. The NYPD issues three weapons, the Glock 19, SIG 226, and S&W 5946. When I left the job, there were ZERo ND's with the SIG or the Smith. Everyone of them with the Glock. Placing your thumb on the hammer while reholstering prevents ND's. Glocks don't give you that option. In my opinion, they are among the worst choice for new shooters (just like every other striker fired pistol).

Wow. My exact reasons for choosing the Sig 229R with the DAK trigger, plus the fact that I like a Safariland SSIII holster, and an over-the-top thumbreak is another potential danger with the Glock.

To bring this back to the main focus of the topic, the Sig DAK trigger is like a well tuned S&W trigger, plus I get 12 round capacity and faster reloads.

 

[.357magger]

Not trying to misdirect the thread... I've mostly owned S+W revolvers and an occasional Glock, Taurus 24/7 of varying calibers. Why are striker fired autos (Glocks in particular) and new shooters a bad combination? I'm a newb when it comes to autos.

Cause officers forget they have their finger on the trigger and try to reholster and...bang. Training issue all the way imo but it does seem to happen rather frequently (relatively speaking) with Herr Gaston's "Perfection" than with other makes. The "safety trigger" is anything but imo. And I carry a G19 frequently as an aside.

Since you asked, that's my .02.

 

[exfebee]

Think you're going to be carrying a 627 now aren't you Tim ?

 

[.357magger]

Think you're going to be carrying a 627 now aren't you Tim ?

Uh...YEAH!

Just as soon as I put some boomers thru it to confirm it goes bang, that gun is AWESOME Brother. Not doubting or anything, just "the routine" with any "new to me" blaster. If all goes well, there just might be a range report on the forum in about a week or so .

Back to the regularly scheduled thread...already in progress.

 

[wnr700]

Cause officers forget they have their finger on the trigger and try to reholster and...bang. Training issue all the way imo but it does seem to happen rather frequently (relatively speaking) with Herr Gaston's "Perfection" than with other makes. The "safety trigger" is anything but imo. And I carry a G19 frequently as an aside.

Since you asked, that's my .02.

Thank you for the explanation.

 

[stantheman86]

I have many autopistols, including a Glock 17, but I never learned to love the bottomfeeders......as hard as I tried.

You'll never catch me selling any of my S&W or Ruger wheelguns to fund an autochucker purchase.

My Glock 17 is still sitting in it's dust covered Tupperware box, I can't remember the last time I fired it, probably two years ago or more. I fired my Model 10-10 and 617-7 today.

 

[DHart]

Cause officers forget they have their finger on the trigger and try to reholster and...bang. Training issue all the way imo but it does seem to happen rather frequently (relatively speaking) with Herr Gaston's "Perfection" than with other makes. The "safety trigger" is anything but imo. And I carry a G19 frequently as an aside.

Since you asked, that's my .02.

Yeah... the design isn't exactly "ideal" for officers, as they often have to reholster during very stressful situations. This is why the training and strict adherence to trained procedures is absolutely critical.

For a civilian, it's a different matter, of course, as they are more likely to have the luxury of reholstering well after stress levels have subsided. And, of course, adherence to safe holstering procedures is equally critical for civies. Good reasons why Glock is probably not the best semi-auto choice for beginners.

I agree the trigger is far from a "safe trigger". That said, Glocks (typically G19 Gen 3 or G23 Gen 4) are my #1 carry pistol choice.

 

[Badkarma 1]

Just my 2 cents worth

I have never a police officer, but I highily respect them for the job they under take every day!
That said you all know me by now and my background, as a civie I feel perfectly well armed with a .357 Magnum with a brace of speedloaders and one speed strip, backed up by a snub .38.
However if I were to put on the badge I would want nothing less than my old SIG 226 w/3 15 round mags and the same .38 for backup! My reasoning is that todays criminal element is training for multiple encounters and using team tactics. I've read where they actually had members join the military just to learn shoot-n-move as well as CQB, wether it's true or not I don't know.
On the Glock thing: Your welcome to 'em! I've spent way too much time learning the SIG and now the 5946 as well as my preferred revolvers be they S&W, Ruger, or Colt. The "plastic fantastic" isn't for me! Dale

 

[stantheman86]

Just get a "NY trigger" for the Glock, it's much heavier than the stock trigger group. The NYPD mandated all of the Glock 19's used on duty or off duty must have the NY trigger installed. I think it's a 12 lb. trigger, stock is maybe 8 lb.?

Glock trigger springs (group, assembly) just drop right in, it's easy. Years ago I took the Glock armorers course when I was an armed guard, but I forgot most of it.....

 

[CookE]

I noticed that some of you gentlemen served in Vietnam. I surely do THANK YOU FOR THAT. I DON'T KNOW IF I WAS LUCKY OR WHATEVER YOU WANT TO CALL IT, BUT I WAS NEVER CALLED TO GO. Like I said earlier, I have been in Law Enforcement for 42 years. I wanted to ask a question of a VETERAN. I had read one time that when the AR 15 was first introduced and used in Vietnam and it was FULLY AUTOMATIC the "AVERAGE AMOUNT OF ROUNDS FIRED FOR 1 KILL WAS SOMETHING LIKE 17,000 ROUNDS". THEN AGAIN, I HEARD IT WAS EVEN HIGHER THAN THAT AND THAT'S WHY THEY WENT TO THE 3 ROUND BURSTS INSTEAD OF FULLY AUTO. I GUESS THAT IS WHERE THE "SPRAY & PRAY" SAYING CAME FROM. i GOT THAT FROM ONE OF MY BUDDIES ON THE PD THAT SERVED OVER THERE AND WAS SHOT 2 TIMES. GOD REST HIS SOUL, WE JUST LOST HIM A FEW YEARS AGO RIGHT AFTER HE RETIRED UNDER DISABILITY. ONLY A THOUGHT. AGAIN, THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE, ESPECIALLY IN VIETNAM..........................CookE

 

[Az. revolver fan]

Basic training with the semi-auto is for the trigger finger to be straight out, parallel with the slide at all times, except when actually firing. At least that's how we trained. Never an accident yet with our dept. Any officer who had his finger on the trigger when trying to reholster would be re-assigned to dispatch or somewhere.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi, Az. revolver:
Same here. We call it "The Universal Cover Mode". Negative A/Ds when this practice is used. (even when re-holstering).
Jimmy

 

[J. W.]

Basic training with the semi-auto is for the trigger finger to be straight out, parallel with the slide at all times, except when actually firing. At least that's how we trained. Never an accident yet with our dept. Any officer who had his finger on the trigger when trying to reholster would be re-assigned to dispatch or somewhere.

Yup, same here.

Lets see, inadequate firearms training = AD's/ND's. The fix? Heavy trigger springs, which when coupled with the inadequate training means officers can't hit the broad side of a barn...

Mandating idiot springs in your officer's pistols is an extremely poor substitute for properly training them to start with.

 

[DEVGRU (ret.)]

ONLY HITS COUNT

As has probably already been overstated, IMO the weapon you choose to carry matters little when compared with shot placement and your ability to acquire your target quickly.
One .22 to the proper soft tissue will beat 12 45's that don't hit.
I practice one hand point shooting after my run in order to simulate an elevated pulse. If you can hit what you aim at with one hand while under stress, the weapon matters little.
Perfect Practice makes Perfect.

 

[moosedog]

Times have changed and so have the perps. Over the years, the number of shootings involving multiple perps has increased.
The number of rounds fired in the "average police shooting" has increased. One would be severely "under gunned" with a six or even eight shot revolver in 357 Magnum.
And that doesn't even take into consideration the 357 round itself which is known for over penetration, severe muzzle blast, severe muzzle flash and the heaviest bullet only weighing 158 gr or less.

The 357 mag is out dated for law enforcement. If it wasn't, it would still be in use.

 

[stantheman86]

"Outdated" and "Ineffective" are two different things.

For a civilian to use for defending the ranch or keeping under a truck seat, no one would call something like an '03 Springfield ineffective, but for military or police use it is far outdated. I feel well armed with a Ruger GP100 and a Rem 870 as my "house guns" but these are seen as outdated by many people.

I guess my point is, LEO's go out looking for the bad guys, so we want them to have as much firepower on their hip and in the patrol car as possible. A Glock and an AR-15 even the odds more then a Model 10 and a 12 gauge pump. A .357 is a manstopper, no doubt, but in today's world we have police officers from all walks of life.....women, men, different shapes and sizes. Not all of them can handle a .357. The days when most cops were men and were all mostly ex-military guys used to handling weapons, are coming to an end. At a job I had in the past as an armed guard, there were women who couldn't handle a Glock 22. A .357 probably would have been dangerous in their hands. Some of these women went on to police jobs.

However, as a civilian CCW holder, I carry a gun in case the bad guys come looking for me. As a purely defensive gun I trust my revolvers every day. I am not saying my Model 10 is ineffective, but I like to keep it simple and I know I've got 6 shots for sure. Of course I'm not kicking in doors and arresting people either. The odds of me having to use my gun are much, much lower than a police officer.

 

[CrossRifles2008]

Not a cop, but would defiantly rather a .44 here in Iraq over my Beretta 92FS. Considering a hand gun is for up close and personal the Beretta doesn't have the stopping power I want. That also comes from the fact that we are using full metal jacket instead of hollow points. Of course I think the best fit for combat is still the 1911. Still packs a fair punch in FMJ and reloads quick.

 

[Bullseye Smith]

The answer is "NO" for the most of them, they what tupper ware that holds a box of ammo and hope they can hit the side of a barn with it. It takes a Marksman to shot a revolver where most LE fail the test at.

 

[J. W.]

Times have changed and so have the perps. Over the years, the number of shootings involving multiple perps has increased.
The number of rounds fired in the "average police shooting" has increased. One would be severely "under gunned" with a six or even eight shot revolver in 357 Magnum.
And that doesn't even take into consideration the 357 round itself which is known for over penetration, severe muzzle blast, severe muzzle flash and the heaviest bullet only weighing 158 gr or less.

The 357 mag is out dated for law enforcement. If it wasn't, it would still be in use.

While a revolver is no longer optimal, I wouldn't say one armed with a .357 is severely under gunned, especially if its an 8 shooter. Ballistically, the .357 magnum is as good or better fight stopper as any service round out there. Over penetration, IMO, is hardly a concern when one looks at the number of rounds that completely miss their target. The severity of the muzzle blast and flash is highly dependant of the round in question.

JMO, its not the cartridge thats out dated, but the delivery platform.