Would any cop today feel an advantage with a .357 Magnum revolver?

[www]

I retired recently after 33 years. I started in 1976 with a mod 19, Colt Python, (mod 66 dept. gun). Then semi autos were allowed and I carried a P220 till being issued a G22.
I personally felt equally comfortable with all of them. I did however shoot a point or two higher with the revolvers.

 

[Mongo]

Mongo

I am a retired Police Officer and carried a S&W .357 magnum revolver for many years while working in uniform. However, I also carried a Colt Combat Commander in 45 ACP in a shoulder holster as my back-up. Revolvers and semi-autos have their place. This combination worked for me.

 

[ken158]

You are not going to find many current LEO's that have experience carrying a revolver, so us retired guys is where your will get answers to your question. My last issued revolver was in the 80's (model 66) and the range failure rate became too high to justify keeping them. We had carried them about five years and everything from end shake to various other issues had taken it's toll. I was the dept armorer and believe me, the guns were a mess. Transitioned to Sig 9mm, then to Sig 40 and then to the HK 45. I cant say I ever missed the .357. Just reloading with magazines verses speedloaders is a no brainer and so much easier in timed or stressful situations. I can recall one non fatal shooting with the 357, one non fatal with the 40 and one fatal with the 45. I guess it is just called progress...

 

[bdsmith]

"I doubt many of today's patrolmen would be comfortable with any revolver, regardless of caliber."

I am one of the exceptions I think. Beginning with service in the USMC through my 12th year as a civilian LEO, I carried semi-autos in the .45 ACP variety. I worked 8 years of SWAT and relied on a 1911 (along with an AR-15) for the overwhelming majority of that time. About 4 years ago, the nagging feeling of having a pistol jam in a gunfight just would not leave me alone. The final straw for me was when I read about a Houston patrol officer who got off one round before the gun jammed up and he was executed at close range. The question as to whether or not the revolver was a more reliable platform for police type "defensive" work was on my mind regularly. Long story short, I decided that the revolver, properly cleaned and maintained, was more reliable in this setting. For the past three years, I have carried a 627pc 8 shot revolver. It is now equipped with an XSS nightsight, Jordan Trooper grips from Herretts, and fed with Hearthco full moon clips of 125 grain .357 DPX ammo. When on patrol, I carry three 8 round reloads and I definitely do not feel undergunned. I can tell you that I get some stares and comments from other officers as they can't believe I am carrying a revolver in the 21st century. I love to shoot it and with practice I believe you can get almost as fast on the follow-up shots and reloads as you can with autos.

 

[Jellybean]

Would any policemen today feel better armed with a .357 Magnum over say a 9mm or a Glock .40 high capacity gun?

I carried a S&W 65 at the time of my retirement in 2007, it was my choice over every other handgun. Caliber had no basis in my decision though, as I would have carried any other as long as it was in a stainless S&W K frame.

The reason I carried it was for the speed with which it can be drawn from a snapped duty holster. Anyone who feels a revolver is inferior to an auto for a police duty weapon is dreaming, in my opinion. In fact there are enough negatives for the average police officer that most shouldn't even be allowed to carry an auto.

 

[WC145]

"I doubt many of today's patrolmen would be comfortable with any revolver, regardless of caliber."

I am one of the exceptions I think.

As I posted earlier on, I often carry a revolver on duty (7 shot S&W 586 L-Comp) and I'm very comfortable with it, I do not feel "undergunned" when I'm carrying it. I also use moonclips and carry 4 spares. In addition my BUG is a revolver.

 

[Lee Jones]

I am an always armed civilian(with CWP) and a handgun collector/shooter. I may carry a mid-frame 357(Colt or S&W), 1911 45, or Browning HP in 40 or 9. Extra ammo always!!!! And a BUG, Keltec or J-frame. I feel for civilian or LEO you must be able to hit what you are shooting at, therefore I reload and shoot several hundred rounds a month. Very few LEOs or civilians practice enough, Leos should qualify monthly, civilians should practice on a regular basis. Budget constrants? What counts most is seeing tommorow.

Pray and Shoot Daily.
Lee Jones(Celtgun

Good shooting will make up for poor gear, but superior gear will not make up for poor shooting. Jeff Cooper

 

[three-five-seven]

re; dave and the model 10

Just for the info which you probably know. The city of Cleveland started issuing Glock 17s about 2 years ago or so. I have talked to some of them and they like them. The reasons were they could hit well, the pistol works everytime and its user friendly meaning they fit their hands. I like mine for the same reason. Also I love my smith revolvers and practice double action with all of them over 90% of the time. I say learn to persons learn to use them that way too. I wouldnt want to get hit with a .38 or a 9mm even if some consider them light. There a lots of good loadings out there.

 

[Ron1971]

Myself I would trust a 357mag any day loved my 4" 66 I had. Wish I still had it. If I had to pick 1 gun for family safety be a 357 or a 40cal just my thoughts though

 

[snowman.45]

I entered LE in 1977 and chose to carry my personally owned 28 over the 15 I was offered. We were allowed to carry magnums, and I carried two of the new-fangled speed-loaders on my belt and two more in my unit. Over time, I experimented with other revolvers; 19's, 66's, etc. in various barrel lengths. However, having been raised in a military family, I was well indocrinated in the advantages of the 1911 and the .45 ACP. In 1982, I became the rangemaster, and lobbied heavily for the 1911. I eventually talked the Chief into the transition to autos, but only to double action platforms. Since I developed the program, I was given a lot of say in the structural requirements for the pistol. It had to be American made and steel-framed. The only two such pistols available at that time were the 645 and Colt Double-Eagle. As you might guess, the 645 won out.

Due to the magazine problems that S&W experienced during that time, we later transitioned to Glock 21's. In 1993, I changed to my hometown department, which was still carrying revolvers; 19's and 66's. Took a little getting used to, but eventually I stopped feeling underarmed (although I did carry a Sig P228 and extra mags in my car after being involved in an in-custody death incident that brought a lot of heat for a time).

Today, I carry my issued Glock G17 or G26, depending on my activities. I always carry G17 magazines when I carry the 26. Off-duty, however, it is common for me to carry a 940, 65, PC681, 4516, 4566 or one of my 1911's. The GDHP 124 +P ammo we are issued is what I carry in all of my 9mm guns. I have seen it's effectiveness and don't worry about it's potential for ending a problem. I always carry revolvers, primarilly .357 or .44 mag/special if in the mountains or desert. I always carry plenty of spare ammo, depending on the application, usually in speed loaders or moonclips (940).

The point is, as so many have said, shot placement is most critical. While I can shoot consistently high scores with all of my guns (because I shoot on my own time and dime ALOT), the world is an entirely different place when someone is shooting back at you. There is no such thing as having too many rounds.

 

[Muley Gil]

I owned several .357s during my 25 year law enforcement career, but seldom carried one on duty, much preferring a .44 or .45. I carried a lightweight 1911 that I built in '81 for most of those years.

However, that pistol started having feeding problems in '99 and I laid it aside and started carrying a M625 .45 ACP. The 5" full lug barrel was a mite too heavy, S&W didn't have any Mountain gun barrels, so I swapped on a 3" barrel. My revolver looked like pinky's, exept mine wore Hogue grips. I also had 24 extra rounds in full moon clips in my speedloader pouches.

During department qualifications, I found that I could reload faster than the majority of the officers carrying autoloaders.

I felt well armed.

I'm now working security on a Federal contract and I'm issued a Glock 17. I shoot it OK, but I'd rather carry the M625 .45 ACP Mountain gun that I was finally able to find.

 

[Nframe357]

My first issue wep was a 4" 686 loaded with Fed 125's. Never felt "undergunned" then and still wouldn't, TOO MANY rely on round count to choose whats a "good" defensive wep and what's not. I plan on getting back into LE in the next yr or so and I'll carry a revolver if allowed.

 

[WPD26]

This is a very "interesting" thread and a good read.

When I came on my Department in 1986 the S&W M66 was issue, and we carried Win. 158 gr + P LHP for issue. We then transitioned to the SIG P226 in '89 or '90, we issued the 147 gr subsonic load, and now have SIG P226 DAK and P229 DAK in 40.

In answer to the question, one of my off duty guns I carry is a S&W Model 13 with 3" bbl. Issue ammo is Fed Hydra Shok 38 +P 129 gr, and/or the Remington 158 gr .357 JHP (fun load). I do regularly practice and qualify with this gun and carry a sh*t load of speed loaders and speed strips. The advantage I feel I have is I ALWAYS have this gun with me, on and off duty and am very comfortable and confident with it.

The other off duty gun I have recently aquired is a S&W 396 NG which I am now "getting to know" pretty good.

 

[daa9mm]

For sudden and short period incidents of extreme violence on a very small scale, it's not the fact that it is a high capacity semi-auto or a high powered revolver that matters.
It's the person who is holding it and how good they are with it in all types of conditions.

 

[32sgteot]

"Just my two cents, but firepower and magazine capacity will never replace the actual ability to hit the target. In most "shootouts" you read where the police or bad guy will fire dozens of shots with only one or two hits. One hit with a .38 special round nose beats 17 misses with a .40 hollow point any time."
Enough already with that silly myth. Where did you read that? One hit with a rolled up newspaper, or a spitball obviously beats 17 misses of hollow point. Please enough already with that nonsense. If someone ran out ammo with a 17 round mag he clearly would have run out of a six shot revolver that much sooner. At least with more rounds you could hold the skell off til the cavalry arrived. Sorry, just that ignorance that someone can put themselves in a cop shoot out and perpetuate that it was the semi's fault no one was hit. On top of that " they read somewhere ". Where did you read that ? If you like revolvers fine, good for you. Don't guess what would help in a shoot out unless you were there.

 

[meh92]

This is a really good thread and quite a lot of information to consider.

Double-action revolvers are simple guns much less prone to malfunctions (be them mechanical or shooter-induced) than bottom-feeders. I'm sure the term "limp-wrist-malfunction" was unknown to many instructors back when most everyone was carrying wheel-guns. Wheelies are typically not ammunition-sensitive (providing someone hasn't foolishly played around too much with the action). Not having to worry about damaged magazines is also another big plus.

For those of us who carry revolvers as BUG's, potential ammunition sharing is a big plus. If I carried a .357 wheel-gun on duty, my BUG would likely be a .357 J-frame of some sort. The new Ruger LCR would be high on the list as well.

In addition to the old favorites, the new full-size S&W 7 and 8 shot .357 revolvers (particularly in the lightweight alloys) would make fine duty guns.

Someone here already made the comment that the first (few) shots in a gunfight are often the most critical, but the 15th usually isn't. That is definitely food for thought. Extra ammunition is certainly not a bad thing, but if you lug it around every day only to miss with it when it counts, you're not doing yourself any favors. Weather you have 6 shots or 20 shots at your immediate disposal, accurate fire delivered in a timely manner is the ultimate goal, right?

I've always been issued a semi-auto of some sort for duty. Given my own choice (which I currently do not enjoy) I'd carry one of several semi-auto's for duty; 1911's being at the top of the list. However, I would definitely prefer a wheel-gun over a semi-auto of questionable reliability or low power. Whatever you carry, learn it well.

 

[cp1969]

Lousy marksmanship is not a myth, nor does magazine capacity compensate for it in any situation other than suppressive fire, in which case blanks would probably serve just as well.

 

[ken158]

I'm from the day when LEO related good stuff started with a 4 - I drove a 440 Plymouth with a 4 barrel carb and carried a 41 mag. 1 shot put down many deer that had tangled with an auto, one dog that wanted to eat me and 1 Chevy being driven by a felon. As the years passed and the self loader became the standard, the revolver was never missed - but I really missed the Plymouth!

 

[CraigJ]

.357 Cop

As a LEO from 74-86, I carried a .45 and a .357. Off duty, the .45 only. While working uniformed patrol, a 66 was carried with 125 Federals. Didn't feel a bit under armed. Also kept an 870 in the front seat. The Illinois State Police were carrying the 9mm with several loads. I kept the Federals.
CraigJ

 

[Gauntlet]

I would

I have been a cop for 24 years and a firearms instructor for 15years. I started my career shooting .38 round nose ammo in a M19. A few years later we were issued .357 125gr sjhp ammo and it was a confidence booster. In 1991 I was issued a Glock 9mm, but I wanted to keep carrying my .357 magnum due to my own ability with the revolver and for the ballistic efficency of the .357 over the 9mm. I also loathed the idea of having a plastic gun. But over time I felt comfortable with the gun. In 1995 Glock had their trade in program and we traded up to the .40 and it was a great improvement ballistically over the 9mm round. By that time I was also a firearms instructor for my agency and I saw the overall scores also went up, when we went from 9's to 40's, so go figure. In 2008 my current agency was in need of a weapon upgrade and after a thorough test and evaluation process of the new Glock .45GAP vs. the 45 auto, we went with the Glock 21SF in .45 auto because the "majority" of shooters we used for the tests had all performed much better with that particular round and gun. Would I "now" feel undergunned with a 6 shot .357 compared to my current .45 with (3) 13 round mags of 230gr. Speer Gold Dots? YES. But I will always trust a 5 shot 640 in .357 as my backup gun.