Would You Ever Swap Out your "J" for One of the Small Autos?

Noooooooo! I would never trade off one my old J Frames for plastic junk. I can buy one of the little plastic gun anytime I want. Actually I have purchased a couple of them. Finding a J Frame made before 1992 has become difficult at best.
 
Selecting a concealed carry handgun is all about compromise.

Below you'll see my selection of concealed carry handguns stretching back over 20 years, and you'll also see a transition from an in the field pointy end of the stick positions to my more recent administrative and policy oriented positions, where the need for a high capacity semi-auto just isn't present.

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It starts with a Browning Hi Power at the 12 o'clock position. Despite what most people probably think it's readily concealable on an average sized male and it offers a great balance of accuracy, reliability and magazine capacity in a not over sized package.

It is however heavy and somewhat blocky, which makes it less comfortable when you carry it all day, everyday. That minor discomfort was enough prompt me to take it off, or leave it off a fair percentage of a time, and regardless of how effective it is, it's no good at all to you if you don't have it on you when the need arises.

The logical outgrowth of that was a move to a Kimber Ultra Carry. Magazine capacity is reduced from 13+1 to 7+1, but no one argues about .45 ACP effectiveness, and the Kimber is both accurate and reliable. Given that most law enforcement (about 70%) and civilian self defense shoots occur at 5 yards or less with 5 rounds or less fired, a spare mag in a semi-auto is carried more for its utility in an immediate action drill to clear a stoppage than for the extra rounds. The mall ninja wet dream of multiple assailant scenarios requiring 2 spare mags and 45 rounds in total are pretty much just that for civilian CCW permit holders who should be smart enough to avoid dark scary places in gang infested neighborhoods.

I liked the Kimber as it was accurate, relentlessly reliable and very shootable, despite the small size and weight. But the fact is that I basically wore it out. I shoot a lot, and I believed CCW permit holders should shoot a lot, and shoot their concealed carry weapon in particular a lot. Mine see at least 100 rounds a week on average, and in the summer that's at least 200 rounds a week. An aluminum frame pistol however tends to have a useful life of around 20,000 rounds (which is actually a point in the favor of tactical tupperware, as they allow light weight with better frame life). The Kimber's other downside was the uniformly thick profile, one that made it a little less concealable than its length width and height dimensions would otherwise suggest - not as bad or as blocky as a Glock, but close.

I tried a CZ 75 Compact with 13+1 capacity, in part because it shares the same grip angles and traits that make it a strong choice for people who find that 1911s and Browning Hi Powers fit their hands well. It was a superb pistol - accurate, also relentlessly reliable, and very durable in its steel frame versions.

This was also however about the time I realized that a high capacity semi-auto pistol was overkill, and the accumulated weight and bulk of a durable semi-auto I could shoot on a regular basis along with a spare mag needed for immediate action purposes just wasn't worth the trade offs given the realities of my non active duty self defense needs.

I was a Walther PP series fan and collector and tried a PPK/S and a PP before settling on an FEG AP9S - a Walther clone with a bit more beef that is a joy to shoot in .380 ACP. I chose the PP and AP9S due to the combination a 3.9" barrel in an overall small package - in particular in term of it's thin width and light weight.

Let's be upfront here, the .380 ACP is a marginal cartridge and the only way to get 12" minimum penetration with a hollow point is to use one of the several loads that launch a 90 gr Hornady XTP at 1000-1050 fps, and to get that velocity requires a 3.5" to 3.9" barrel. Unfortunately, the current crop of sub compact and micro .380ACPs are using short barrels in the 2.75" to 3.0" range (Glock 42 included), and that's just not enough barrel to get the job done in the .380 ACP - a cartridge that suffers significantly as barrel length decreases.

The FEG AP9 was more reliable than an of my PP or PPK/S pistols and that more than anything else led to its assignment as the primary carry pistol. It was very shootable and very comfortable to carry. Unfortunately I developed an allergic reaction to the wood grips, and I found over time that prolonged contact with any of the current oil finished wood grips would cause a skin rash. Consequently, I either need a poly finished wood grip, or I need to wax the grip on a weekly basis to prevent contact with the oils in the wood. Grips for the FEG AP series are not all that common, and most of them are wood.

In the interim, while trying to resolve that problem, I started carrying a S&W Model 36. A 1 7/8" Model 36 was actually the first centerfire handgun I'd ever shot at about age 12, and I've always had a soft spot for it.

I found it was extremely comfortable to carry and very shootable with standard pressure or .38+P loads with a Hogue Monogrip. I switched to a newer J magnum frame model 36 to better tolerate .38 +P loads because, time for some more blunt honesty here, the standard pressure .38 Special won't give adequate terminal performance with standard pressure loads. You're far better off with a 90 gr Hornady XTP in a 3.9" .380 than you are with standard pressure .38s in a snub nose .38.

I eventually settled on a Model 60 in .357 Magnum as my prime carry firearm. I don't use a full power .357 load in it, but the load I do use launches a 125 gr bullet at 1250 fps - about 200 fps faster than my old .38 +P load in a 2" barrel.

I've tried and passed on various sub compact 9mms mostly because they range from "**** that hurts" to "hmm..I don't want to put a hundred rounds though this today" in terms of shoot-ability, and I place far greater emphasis on my ability to get rounds (of adequate power/performance) on target quickly than any other single consideration in a concealed carry firearm, and maintaining that capability requires significant practice with that particular firearm - or at least one very similar too it.

The only downside with the J frame and J Magnum frame revolvers is that while they chamber some of them in .357 Magnum, they are designed to be carried with .357 magnum, but to primarily shoot .38 Special. If you run a steady diet of .357 Mag loads through a J frame, even a steel J Magnum model, it won't be long for this world at 100 plus rounds per week.

That led to me acquiring a 3" SP101 for shooting / practice purposes and quite frankly I am as likely to carry it as my Model 60. It's .3 of a pound heavier (1.8 versus 1.5 fully loaded) but it's a joy to shoot with .357 amy lads and the extra 7/8" of barrel isn't noticeable when carrying it, although I do notice the extra weight.

Here's where we get into some irony....

When you lay one on top of the other, a Model 60 isn't that much smaller than a Hi Power, and a 3" SP 101 isn't any smaller at all.

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But the simple LxWxH dimensions don't tell the whole story, as they don't address there those maximum widths lengths and height occur, or how far over the profile of the handgun they extend.

Below you'll see the same Hi Power and a 3" SP101 side by side, and here it's obvious that the total volume (and weight) of the SP101 is significantly lower than a Hi Power, even though their external maximum dimensions are similar.

So in a sense, I've come full circle in terms of overall dimensions, but getting a less voluminous and lighter handgun that still retains excellent shoot ability, but with greater reliability and improved terminal effectiveness - but at the expense of magazine capacity.

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That gets at the heart of why I've ultimately settled on J frame /SP 101 sized revolvers for concealed carry.

1) they are accurate (surprisingly so once you are proficient with them);

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2) they shoot a potent self defense cartridge (.357 magnum 125 gr JHP at 1170-1250 fps);
3) they offer five rounds (enough for 99% of the engagements I'd be likely to be in, in the unlikely event I am ever in one)
4) they are extremely reliable* and simple to operate, and the immediate action drill for a failure to fire is to simply pull the trigger again;
5) they are comfortable for all day carry as the thin overall profile lends itself well to comfortable IWB carry; and
6) with some practice a reload with a speed loader is not all that much slower than with a semi-auto and with the right selection of speed loader and carrier, they are lightweight and low profile to carry.
 
Great post BB. I currently have a Shield for carry but looking for a J frame. First choice is a 60 in 3", or Ruger SP 101, maybe a 649 if I can find one.
 
Great post BB. I currently have a Shield for carry but looking for a J frame. First choice is a 60 in 3", or Ruger SP 101, maybe a 649 if I can find one.
If I could find a 3" Model 60 in .357 Mag, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I've found the comparison of the Model 60 to the SP 101 to be interesting.

The SP101 is very accurate, slightly more so than the Model 60 and the SP101 is built heavier with a thicker frame around the barrel, thicker top strap, and about twice as much metal in the forcing cone.

The SP101's trigger is easier to adjust in terms of replacing the hammer spring and trigger return spring, and can more readily be lightened than the Model 60, but it isn't as smooth. The "clicks" you feel as the bolt drops from the cylinder notch and then rises again to slide into the next notch are much more distinct on the SP101, and the over all "feel" is not as smooth in the DA pull. Both however have comparable SA trigger pulls.

That trend continues in the over all feel of the Model 60. Both revolvers lock up tight and operate smoothly, but the S&W just has a more pleasant and precise feel to it.

In the end, I prefer to carry the S&W and I prefer it's shooting qualities, but in terms of overall durability and longevity with .357 Magnum loads, the SP101 wins hands down. Consequently it sees a lot more use in practice.
 
In a nutshell....NO.

Experiemented with an LCP for a couple of years. Rarely could I get through a box of 50 rounds without some issue requiring a tap, rack, bang. Sometimes the issue required much more than a tap/rack.

I have a 637-2 residing comfortably in my pocket right now. The hammer spur and internal safety have been removed. I'd love to have more than 5 rounds on tap, but I feel very confident all 5 rounds WILL go bang when I need them too.
 
If I could find a 3" Model 60 in .357 Mag, I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

I've found the comparison of the Model 60 to the SP 101 to be interesting.

The SP101 is very accurate, slightly more so than the Model 60 and the SP101 is built heavier with a thicker frame around the barrel, thicker top strap, and about twice as much metal in the forcing cone.

The SP101's trigger is easier to adjust in terms of replacing the hammer spring and trigger return spring, and can more readily be lightened than the Model 60, but it isn't as smooth. The "clicks" you feel as the bolt drops from the cylinder notch and then rises again to slide into the next notch are much more distinct on the SP101, and the over all "feel" is not as smooth in the DA pull. Both however have comparable SA trigger pulls.

That trend continues in the over all feel of the Model 60. Both revolvers lock up tight and operate smoothly, but the S&W just has a more pleasant and precise feel to it.

In the end, I prefer to carry the S&W and I prefer it's shooting qualities, but in terms of overall durability and longevity with .357 Magnum loads, the SP101 wins hands down. Consequently it sees a lot more use in practice.

Thanks for that feedback. I found a 60 no dash 2" at a pawn shop last week, one of the NYPD models without the hammer, I should have picked it up but I've been holding off for a 60 3" barrel.

I agree the Ruger is a very solid revolver and tends to be around $100 less than a 60 3" on Gunbroker. I have shot the Ruger at a local range and have nothing negative to say about it, haven't compared a 60 to it side by side.

I'll keep checking the LGS and a 60 will eventually turn up.
 
At my personal peak I owned more than 25 J frames. Sadly diabetic nerve damage pushed me back for K&L for carry. Before diabetes I had given a thought of going to semi such as a Glock 26 or 27 but J frames do not need to be babied as much.
 
I would never trade my 642 for a small semi-auto, though I wouldn't mind having one for those rare occasions when the 642 might be too much, such as a LCP for pocket carry. I also wouldn't mind having a larger semi-auto, such as a Glock 19, available as an option. But even then I'd still probably rely primarily on my J-frame.

At one point I seriously considered getting a good compact 9mm but lately I've been thinking that I'd probably be better off just getting another J-frame (or two).
 
I'm fortunate to own a few J Frames as well as a Shield. The Shield is a good EDC and has the benefit? of carrying a few more rounds on board plus perhaps an easier reload, at least according to some. I'm an old revolver man and as such, they are my favorites. I recently decided to carry my Shield for a while. Today I decided to return to one of my favorite J Frames, a 640-1. I carry both in IWB holsters made by TTGunleather, specifically his Slim XC model. The 640 has a set of CT laser grips installed. After getting dressed this morning with the 640 and carrying all day, I noticed that the 640 carries for me a bit more comfortably than the Shield, in spite of the fact that the Shield is narrower and flatter than the 640. And I also discovered that the 640 actually conceals a bit better for me, even with the CT grips in place, which are longer than boot style grips.

I'm not sure why this fact has not been more apparent to me to this point. This time of year, my EDC is generally concealed by just an untucked shirt tail. The more curved shape of the revolver grip does not print as much or in quite the same way when I bend over a bit compared to the more straight and blocky grip of the Shield. These are not glaring differences but I can say that I was less aware of carrying the revolver all day today than I have been while carrying the Shield. Neither is a bad choice at all for EDC. Neither is a problem for me, but today I became specifically aware that as far as comfort goes, I prefer the J Frame. Another thing I noticed is that getting a grip on the revolver is a bit easier than on the Shield, since that one carries with the grip a bit closer to my body than the grip of the revolver.

These are probably subjective observations that might apply only to myself, my body shape, and my carry preference, but they are very real and noticeable to me. And my earlier statement in this thread that my preference is still for the J Frames for carry over the Shield has been strengthened . Understand that I have no problem at all carrying and using the Shield, but my preference for the J Frame has been reinforced by these observations. Your experience may be different from mine, but I report this for what it might be worth for others. The icing on the cake is that I also have more absolute confidence in my J Frames to absolutely discharge every single round they carry every time I press the trigger. My Shield has been very reliable, and I trust it, but I absolutely trust my revolvers, based on many years of use of many different revolvers as well as my personal ones that are maintained by me. Nothing mechanical is exempt from potential problems, but I just don't find myself wondering about whether or not my revolvers will deliver the goods if that should become necessary. EDC is always better when you can carry your personal choice as comfortably as possible, and for me, my J Frames provide that for me.
 
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I think there are a lot of things about guns that are subjective & what works well for me may or may not work for someone else.
I am also a fan of the J frames for concealment in summer with light clothing. In cooler weather if I can wear a vest, I go with a bigger gun.

The Js are a LOT of fun to shoot, & more accurate than a lot would think!
 
I tried swapping out my J frames for a Shield, Glock 26 etc. before.

What I have found for me personally is like a small revolver because I can actually run it without losing pieces of skin. The small pistols always leave me with pinched fingers from reloads and bleeding, plus I am no faster with those tiny magazines than I am with a speedloader.

I prefer my pistols large and my revolvers small.

But I will admit that I would like to shoot a Glock 43. Not so much own one as just shoot one.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk
 
To answer the OP's question: I went over to the "dark side" and EDC a DAO Sig P290 RS because it gives me the same kind of security and more rounds. My J frame 642 Airweight was a great lightweight pocket carry, but the Sig is better for my purposes because its weight and ergonomics allows me to stay on target while firing at a rapid rate. I hope you enjoy whatever model you choose, and the J frame is an excellent choice.
 
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