Would you fight it or not? Ticket question...

[bobcat]

On Nov. 19th I was heading to Great Falls for an 80th birthday party for my mom, motoring along in the Dodge on Hwy. 2. It had snowed some, not terrible for Montana, and I pull up behind this knot head doing about 30 for no good reason. I pass him and next thing I know I have an HP guy lighting me up.

Now I've been in law enforcement for over 28 years, but I never badge or play that card unless I'm specifically asked what I do, so I'm not anti-LEO, but I have no patience with badge happy, authority abusing LEO's of any stripe, including in my agency.

The mini me trooper walks up to the truck, all authority and badge happy, and after asking me where I'm going and what my hurry is, writes me for 62 in a 45 zone, $85 bond and 3 points on the license. I knew I was in a 70 zone, but young copper was spoiling for an argument when he walked up to the truck and reason was not going to work on this dude. He said "I can write you up for passing in a no passing zone (it wasn't), and for reckless driving", I guess because there was some snow on the road. Hell, it's Montana in Nov., if there isn't snow on the road, you're lost. I clenched my jaws, kept my mouth shut, and listened to the little trooper. My wife tells me after he goes back to write me that I should kiss up a little big, I guess she doesn't know me as well as I thought. He asked me if I wanted to post bond now or take care of it later, I told him later, I wasn't going to give the little turd the satisfaction. I mailed a check for the bond while at my moms so I don't get a warrant issued.

I proceed on way, had my vacation, and on the way back home last Friday, I stopped at the mile marker noted on the ticket as the location of the violation, and it's solidly in a 70 mph zone. I take pics of the road, signs, and proceed home.

I had until the 29th to plead, so I call the court, and yesterday the JP calls and I had a telephonic arraignment. I plead not guilty, he then asks how old I am, and then tells me in exchange for a guilty plea, he'll waive the 3 points after 3 months if I have no further violations, and I'll forfeit the bond. I tell him no thanks. It's 200 miles to the town for court on 1/11/11, but I'm stubborn, and in the right, and I'm not going to plead guilty to an offense when the baby trooper is blantantly wrong. My wife asked me today if I realized how far it was to the court, and if I knew what it would cost to go, yea, I know the cost will probably equal the bond, but to hell with it, I'm not going to plead guilty to something I didn't do.

Am I being an stubborn old man? (Probably), but what would you guys do?

Take care...

 

[Sebago Son]

I'm with you...

Fight it.

You must stand up to injustice.

I'd love to see the look on that Tiny Trooper's face when he finds out you're a cop too....

Drew

 

[sceva]

Wear your uniform to court when you go.

 

[n4zov]

It ain't the money, it's the principle involved! Go for it and good luck.

 

[feralmerril]

Fight it, your right. Many years ago I was new in my town. After work I went to a bar I had never been to. I had one glass of beer and left. I noticed a lapd seen me pull out. He followed me three miles at night through town with his lights off. I seen him turn his headlights on and then the red lights. He put me through the tests and I was sober. He scratched his head and I could see the wheels turning. He then said I am writeing you for cutting the corner back there! I gave no argument at the time. Went back latter to where he had wrote I cut the corner to see for myself and to cut the corner as diagramed, I would have had to drive over a foot high island and take a light standard out! I knew he probley figuered I was so happy not to be wrote for a dui that I would just pay any stupid ticket. I took pictures of the intersection. I also noticed he had wrote I had a blue truck and my truck was white.
The PD tried to get me to plead out for just traffic school. I said no way. (If she wasnt marsha clark, it was her twin!) I questioned the cop if he was color blind, and of course got the answer, no, for my job, blah, blah etc, the judge started to get mad at me and said that didnt matter, I showed my pictures and the judge seemed distracted as he looked at the ticket and told the balief to bring him a certain law book. It seems the officer had pulled a code number out of his "butt" that pertained to nothing!
The judge threw the case out and told the officer to see him in his chambers as I was leaveing!

 

[S. Hammer]

I'd have to fight it as well. If this guy is writing bogus tickets it needs to be brought to light. Sounds like he doesn't need to be wearing a badge.

 

[diamond_c]

Fight it tooth and nail.

 

[Strato]

I would fight it. If the trooper can't even read a speed limit sign it needs to be brought to someone's attention.

 

[38-44HD45]

If you are going to fight it, power to you! Don't know about Montana, but around here, you'd have a 50-50 chance that little Napoleon wouldn't show for trial, and the case would be dismissed. Go take pictures of the location, complete with any pertinent mile markers, the speed limit sign, etc. Demand a jury trial, file discovery motions, and if you have to show up, wear your uniform. Nothing better than good law enforcement officers, little worse than bad ones. This little SOB needs a lesson. My brother, who is a county sheriff, had to go to an officious local state trooper's supervisor on multiple occasions a few years back, and finally got him transferred to the other side of the state. Now, my brother just has to watch his speed when he drives on the highways where the trooper now lives!

 

[snowman]

I'll join the chorus; your case sounds airtight. In addition to vindicating yourself and putting the guy in his place, you may well get the fellow fired(which sounds entirely appropriate), thereby preventing the same thing from happening to other people. When we fight for justice in such situations, we're not just helping ourselves, but the whole community.

Andy

 

[JcMack]

All I can say is you were very wise not to pitch a bitch on the scene. What you do now is up to you. But however it comes out you will kick your self if you don't appear.

 

[roarindan]

Fight,fight,fight!! There was a trooper up "heah" that was writing only females tickets for speeding (55 in a 40), a friend got the ticket and did the same thing as you. she waited until court and blew his case outta da water. I believe he requested a transfer or was reassigned.
There was also a trooper that stopped a woman for speeding, he followed her into town, and told her to remove money for the fine from her atm acct. she did this paid her "fine" and left. trouble started when she called the DA's office and wanted to know where her disposition letter was. Ya'll see, the pole eese here dont collect fines, he had pocketed her $$ and tore up the ticket.
He's no longer with law enforcement.

 

[smith revolver cop]

You're clearly correct on the speed limit, and this guys sounds like a jerk. As you are already well aware, though, ANY appearance in court is a 50/50 proposition. The judge or magistrate may see the obvious discrepancy in the two accounts of the speed limit as "reasonable doubt" and dismiss or find you not guilty. Or, he may be one of those who always believe the officer no matter what, and make sure your fine is well above the bond- plus points. Best of luck either way.

 

[feralmerril]

Yesterday the wife and I went to a neighboring town. I had exactly two one hundred dollar bills on me, no other money at all. I dropped the wife off at a store and drove over to the largest un named sporting goods store. I bought $49s worth of stuff. The girl asked for my change back as I started to count it and did "something" real fast. The change "looked" close and really, I didnt recount it. Still it bothered me as I drove over and picked up the wife and we went to a resturant. I told her about it, pulled out my sales slip and change. I was $5s short!
The wife is a ex checker herself and urged me to go back. We did. I asked the checker what she had just done. At first she looked a little scared, then pleasantly blew smoke at me with a explaination that made no sense however you would look at it!
Five bucks wont change my life. I probley spent another $2s gas going back. But I feel better. I have been ripped off so many times in my life and let it go many times. This time I feel better! PS. She pleasantly gave me $5s back.

 

[dkees]

This individual's superiors need to know what's going on. Losing in court will have little or no effect on him if he's the kind of officer described.

Most LEOs take their job quite seriously and will not abide this type of abuse of power. Every department, particularly a state organization, have procedures in place to handle these misfits but they have to be made aware.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Emotions, principle and satisfaction usually aren't cheap, and the cost quite often escalates well beyond the initial issue.

For me, I have MUCH better things to do than to drive 400 miles round trip in an attempt to correct something I have no control over.

I trade stocks... so I tend to look through a risk/reward ratio lens for each investment. If your time is worth nothing... If the mileage on your car is worth nothing... If gas is free... Then I would probably still take the offer from the JP.

PS. The below attitude, if not contained in front of a judge, will result in a very unpleasant trip.

"I pull up behind this knot head"

"I have no patience with badge happy, authority abusing LEO's of any stripe"

"The mini me trooper walks up to the truck, all authority and badge happy"

"listened to the little trooper"

"I wasn't going to give the little turd the satisfaction"

"the baby trooper is blantantly wrong"

-------- For Forum entertainment... I say go there and tell them folks what you really think! Please report back.

 

[ASA335]

Go for it!

200 miles doesn't sound too far to go to right a wrong to me, and yes, I can be a "stubborn old man" also.

But on a side note (and a story ): I had a local small town PD issue me an unjustified citation for "Reckless Driving", over forty years ago. I was twenty-one at the time

It was clear, dry and late at night (about 10 pm or so I recall) in this small town of somewhere well under 5000 in population. There was no other traffic or pedestrians in my vicinity as I came to the only flashing red light-controlled intersection in town.

I was driving a '70 Dodge Challenger with a 440 and Six-Pack (that's 440 cubic inches of cylinder displacement and three two-barreled carburetors in a row, for those that don't know - gave the engine 1350 cfm of fuel/air mixture when all three carbs were kicked in). This car could produce 400 hp and 500 lbs/ft of torque.

I stopped at the intersection, signaled my left turn and safely proceeded into my left turn, when my rear tires "broke" and "squealed" a little as I started out. I was pulled over by two officers, ran through three sobriety checks and passed all three. I hadn't been drinking - yet (I was originally on my way to a nearby saloon). I was cited for "Reckless Driving".

In Oregon "Reckless Driving" means to drive "…in a manner that endangers the safety of persons or property". The culpable mental state of "Recklessly" means "…that a person is aware of and consciously disregards a substantial and unjustifiable risk that the result will occur or that the circumstance exists. The risk must be of such nature and degree that disregard thereof constitutes a gross deviation from the standard of care that a reasonable person would observe in the situation.

There were no other folks or vehicles in my near vicinity to endanger. I did not leave my line of permitted travel when my tires broke, so no risk to property. My tires just briefly squealed in initiating my left turn. I decided to plead "not guilty".

I met the JP (Gladys was here name) on the appointed date. Her court was in an old school house. She sat at an old desk that the previous teacher had used and the courtroom seating was old school desks (the single seat with attached table type that was common many years ago). Pilled in some disarray about Gladys were stacks of papers and envelopes. Her source of income and operating funds was a portion of the fines she collected.

She asked how I pled. I said "Not Guilty". She asked if I had read the officers report. No, of course I hadn't read it. She pointed out that according to the five (that's 5) officers that witnessed my driving that night, I wildly squealed my tires through four (that's 4) intersections, nearly losing control of my vehicle. They (All five of them?) believed I may have been drinking before I was pulled over. I was dumbfounded. None of it was true. At that time this town only had five full time officers in total, for all shifts (since then, they have given up having their own police force and now contract with the Sheriff's Office for town patrols). She said if I pled "not guilty" I would have to return for another court date to state my case.

Note that at this time, I was in the process of reenlisting into the Army, specifically the Army Security Agency (ASA), so I could not have any legal actions pending if I wanted to get into the ASA. I explained this to Gladys, and she agreed to a $65 fine if I pled "guilty". I paid the $65 and left, and did not return to that town for twenty years – It's a nicer place to visit now.

In Pursuit,

 

[sigp220.45]

Fight it. Pleading guilty means swearing you did what he said you did, and you didn't.

 

[srgvaz]

The ticket court judge is going to see you as guilty and take HP's word against yours, but depending on what you do as an LEO he might take your words into consideration.

 

[feralmerril]

The original poster is also a leo. I am sure he wouldnt use the same phrases in court as he does writing to us. I dont think I am by myself the way I use this or any other forum. To me, its like a coffee break with my old buddys. I no longer am around them and the lounge here takes the place of my missed get togethers. I sure as hell dont talk as professional here as I did on my career. Maybe I am wrong on that view? Conversley, maybe I have been OVERestimateing the common sense of some here!