AJ
US Veteran
Not so much on the edge of my seat...........Just bored and curious. No real dog in the fight.
Would you send this gun back if you'd just received it?
- Thread starter ccjcc81
- Start date
Not so much on the edge of my seat...........Just bored and curious. No real dog in the fight.
smoothshooter
Member
Between the growing shortage of skilled labor and aggressive bean counters, the careful fitting of revolver parts is a problem.
I got it back. S&W replaced the cylinder. I'm happy about that. All other blemishes were ignored. I'm not so happy about that, but that's the last time I'll whine about it. Other companies sell "blem" firearms or receivers, and I've purchased some, and have yet to ever find a blemish on those. This one had all of the blemishes. A discount would have been nice.
I took it to the range. It shot nicely. I noticed a LOT of flame from the barrel cylinder gap, more than with my 19-9. I wonder if the bcg is out of spec. I understand today's standard is .012, correct? I can't find my feeler gauge, but I'm going to grab one tomorrow and check it out. Otherwise, seems good. The recoil is surprisingly manageable for a .357 this small. I threw a Hogue bantam grip on it. The Hogue grip beat my hand up a LOT LESS than the Altamonts that came on my 19-9. Those Altamonts ate a hole in my thumb near the web of my hand. They're beautiful, but painful. The trigger feels a little different when I got it back than it did when I sent it out. Before I sent it I noticed that the trigger was superb, even for a Smith. I feared when I sent it in that it may come back not as nice, and alas, that appears to be the case. It feels as though there is stacking in the middle of the pull, but only on 2 chambers. It gets heavy, then lighter, resulting in the remainder of the cylinder turn happening very fast. Not as bad as a 686 I bought a while back, but noticeable. I hope it wears in. Does that sort of trigger issue go away with break-in?
There is just a hair of cylinder end shake. My 19 doesn't have any. How much is acceptable?
I slapped a new set of grips on it and threw it in a holster and carried it around while I was out this evening. I'm glad to have it back. Nothing sucks more than saving for a year, and buying a gun only to give it back a day later. I'm glad S&W repaired it quickly.
Lesson learned. I won't be ordering S&W revolvers online any more. I don't relish the idea of rejecting an ordered gun at my FFL. I tried that once a decade ago and the dude told me I couldn't do that, I had to take it. I know it's not true, but I don't care for confrontation. If I buy any more S&W revolvers, they'll probably be pre-lock, and I'll be sure to inspect very thoroughly.
Thanks for all of the advice and feedback, guys. It sure is helpful.
I took it to the range. It shot nicely. I noticed a LOT of flame from the barrel cylinder gap, more than with my 19-9. I wonder if the bcg is out of spec. I understand today's standard is .012, correct? I can't find my feeler gauge, but I'm going to grab one tomorrow and check it out. Otherwise, seems good. The recoil is surprisingly manageable for a .357 this small. I threw a Hogue bantam grip on it. The Hogue grip beat my hand up a LOT LESS than the Altamonts that came on my 19-9. Those Altamonts ate a hole in my thumb near the web of my hand. They're beautiful, but painful. The trigger feels a little different when I got it back than it did when I sent it out. Before I sent it I noticed that the trigger was superb, even for a Smith. I feared when I sent it in that it may come back not as nice, and alas, that appears to be the case. It feels as though there is stacking in the middle of the pull, but only on 2 chambers. It gets heavy, then lighter, resulting in the remainder of the cylinder turn happening very fast. Not as bad as a 686 I bought a while back, but noticeable. I hope it wears in. Does that sort of trigger issue go away with break-in?
There is just a hair of cylinder end shake. My 19 doesn't have any. How much is acceptable?
I slapped a new set of grips on it and threw it in a holster and carried it around while I was out this evening. I'm glad to have it back. Nothing sucks more than saving for a year, and buying a gun only to give it back a day later. I'm glad S&W repaired it quickly.
Lesson learned. I won't be ordering S&W revolvers online any more. I don't relish the idea of rejecting an ordered gun at my FFL. I tried that once a decade ago and the dude told me I couldn't do that, I had to take it. I know it's not true, but I don't care for confrontation. If I buy any more S&W revolvers, they'll probably be pre-lock, and I'll be sure to inspect very thoroughly.
Thanks for all of the advice and feedback, guys. It sure is helpful.
"Touching up a matte finished stainless gun's blemishes to match undamaged surfaces is near impossible."
Yeah, more than likely; but then again pretty near nothing is impossible with the application of knowledge. That said, I don't know the first thing about matte finished stainless guns. I do know about treatment and/or cleaning of a whole bunch of racing engine bits and pieces. One project in particular was long on experimentation at the glass bead peening booth, but gratifying in results-----the project being to enhance lubricating oil retention on cam followers. What sort of finish with glass bead peening is going to do that? We found out in fairly short order, and the results produced a finish on those cam followers that looked like new---after a whole bunch of time at fearsome high rpm's. We were happy campers!!
Now, are matte finished stainless gun finishes accomplished by glass bead peening? I don't know. I do know both you and I can create a finish that looks just like it------never mind I never did it with stainless steel----just regular everyday steel---and aluminum----and cast iron---oh, and titanium. Another thing I don't know is if the media used on the guns is glass beads. I'm guessing it is, but it could most certainly be otherwise.
Another thing that could be otherwise is refinishing the entire surface---as opposed to "touching up"------which would be child's play.
For now, let's just presume matte finished stainless steel guns got that way by way of glass bead peening. Glassbead peening transforms a surface from whatever it is to a matte finish by way of peening it with glass beads delivered by high pressure compressed air. That which alters whatever the original finish might be to the matte finish we're familiar with-----or pretty much any variation thereof is the size of the media, the line pressure of the air, angle of attack, and the distance from the delivery nozzle to the work piece------which is why it's "near impossible" like the man said----to touch up anything---unless you know the values of the several variables. And even then redoing the entire piece is a damn sight easier/faster/cheaper.
So, how does one acquire the knowledge? The long, drawn-out way is via experimentation. The quick and dirty way is find somebody who already knows. S&W's very likely not going to tell you. The folks who sell glass bead peening equipment, on the other hand, are most certainly going to tell you-----so you'll get your stuff from them----and it doesn't cost a whole bunch either. (It's bigger than a bread box of course, but not all that much.)
Food for thought: My first thought is find somebody who already has glass bead peening equipment, and tell 'em what you want done----and how to do it (media size/line pressure/angle of attack/distance to work piece). And give 'em a beater to play with----or six or eight beaters to play with. Oh, and give 'em a brand new gun, so they'll know what it's supposed to look like when they're finished. Better yet, just give them a brand new gun---never mind the beaters; and let them figure it out. They'll get it in short order.
Ralph Tremaine
As an aside, I have a Colt 1911 which was transformed into a "Master Grade" custom by Wilson Combat. Both the fame and slide appear to have been prepared by glass bead peening (and then the slide was blued, and the frame was plated with some sort of silver colored stuff). The surfaces are much finer than those of the matte finished stainless guns I've seen pictures of---which translates into the fact smaller beads were used---again assuming glass bead peening was employed. And having said that, I just went back to look at the pictures in the first post; and the surfaces of my Wilson gun are not "much finer"-----pretty much the same actually.
Yeah, more than likely; but then again pretty near nothing is impossible with the application of knowledge. That said, I don't know the first thing about matte finished stainless guns. I do know about treatment and/or cleaning of a whole bunch of racing engine bits and pieces. One project in particular was long on experimentation at the glass bead peening booth, but gratifying in results-----the project being to enhance lubricating oil retention on cam followers. What sort of finish with glass bead peening is going to do that? We found out in fairly short order, and the results produced a finish on those cam followers that looked like new---after a whole bunch of time at fearsome high rpm's. We were happy campers!!
Now, are matte finished stainless gun finishes accomplished by glass bead peening? I don't know. I do know both you and I can create a finish that looks just like it------never mind I never did it with stainless steel----just regular everyday steel---and aluminum----and cast iron---oh, and titanium. Another thing I don't know is if the media used on the guns is glass beads. I'm guessing it is, but it could most certainly be otherwise.
Another thing that could be otherwise is refinishing the entire surface---as opposed to "touching up"------which would be child's play.
For now, let's just presume matte finished stainless steel guns got that way by way of glass bead peening. Glassbead peening transforms a surface from whatever it is to a matte finish by way of peening it with glass beads delivered by high pressure compressed air. That which alters whatever the original finish might be to the matte finish we're familiar with-----or pretty much any variation thereof is the size of the media, the line pressure of the air, angle of attack, and the distance from the delivery nozzle to the work piece------which is why it's "near impossible" like the man said----to touch up anything---unless you know the values of the several variables. And even then redoing the entire piece is a damn sight easier/faster/cheaper.
So, how does one acquire the knowledge? The long, drawn-out way is via experimentation. The quick and dirty way is find somebody who already knows. S&W's very likely not going to tell you. The folks who sell glass bead peening equipment, on the other hand, are most certainly going to tell you-----so you'll get your stuff from them----and it doesn't cost a whole bunch either. (It's bigger than a bread box of course, but not all that much.)
Food for thought: My first thought is find somebody who already has glass bead peening equipment, and tell 'em what you want done----and how to do it (media size/line pressure/angle of attack/distance to work piece). And give 'em a beater to play with----or six or eight beaters to play with. Oh, and give 'em a brand new gun, so they'll know what it's supposed to look like when they're finished. Better yet, just give them a brand new gun---never mind the beaters; and let them figure it out. They'll get it in short order.
Ralph Tremaine
As an aside, I have a Colt 1911 which was transformed into a "Master Grade" custom by Wilson Combat. Both the fame and slide appear to have been prepared by glass bead peening (and then the slide was blued, and the frame was plated with some sort of silver colored stuff). The surfaces are much finer than those of the matte finished stainless guns I've seen pictures of---which translates into the fact smaller beads were used---again assuming glass bead peening was employed. And having said that, I just went back to look at the pictures in the first post; and the surfaces of my Wilson gun are not "much finer"-----pretty much the same actually.
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I want to run over to Harbor Freight to buy a bead blasting box after Ralph's post. Inspiring. Can think of a few guns that I'd like to throw in there.
Had a Charlotte, NC gun shop bead blast and blue a surface rusted and freckled Model 28-2 one time. Reasonable cost and it came out looking fantastic.
Had a Charlotte, NC gun shop bead blast and blue a surface rusted and freckled Model 28-2 one time. Reasonable cost and it came out looking fantastic.
Not for the faint of heart, but matte stainless touch up is not so spooky. Grab a SS gun or other SS object you are not concerned with and play around with automotive type wet sand paper and a punch.
Tap the paper on the 'shiny' blemish. The grit will impact and mark the metal. DON'T let the paper move while tapping, and don't 'sand' the gun. Gentle trial and error until blended into the matte finish. I have done it on my gun cleaning bench many times.
Tap the paper on the 'shiny' blemish. The grit will impact and mark the metal. DON'T let the paper move while tapping, and don't 'sand' the gun. Gentle trial and error until blended into the matte finish. I have done it on my gun cleaning bench many times.
AND----yet another thing I don't know anything about is Harbor Freight's bead blasting box. That which I was privileged to use was a full size (GREAT BIG!!) professional glass bead outfit in Washington University's Engineering Student Services operation (St. Louis). That facility had EVERYTHING required to make ANYTHING the students/faculty desired for any sort of project---and staffed by full-time EXPERTS!! Our first race car trailer was built by them in a hallway of that facility. The steel was free as part of a minimum order for the university, and the labor cost a case of beer and a bottle of Scotch whiskey. It helped that my very good friend and racing partner was the Director of Engineering Student Services--as in "It ain't what you know, it's WHO you know!!"
Ralph Tremaine
We had to pay for the hitch/axle/wheels/tires/lights---the wiring supplies came from the facility's Electrical section----as did the installation of the electrics.
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I've done this successfully too.
Hoosierville IRN
Member
Send it back. For that much money, your revolver should be flawless. There's no excuse for this getting past S&W Quality Control.
I agree---no excuse, but I believe there's a reason.
I've said this before---more than once, but it perhaps bears repeating.
There are two, and only two philosophies extant among the world's manufacturing concerns:
1. We will be successful if we build the best possible product for the price.
2. We will be successful if we build the product at the lowest possible cost.
S&W clearly subscribed to philosophy #1 in the beginning. At a point in time, they just as clearly decided they were going to change their philosophy. We can debate the point in time, but that comes under the heading of fun for the feeble minded. I, for example, can make the case they changed when they stopped making the Triple Lock; but I'd get laughed out of town---and deservedly so.
The bottom line is they changed their philosophy, and there's no argument about that from any but the most unenlightened observer.
And it's a damn shame.
Ralph Tremaine
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OLDSTER
Member
Definitely send it back. Those folks who give S&W a "pass" wouldn't accept a new car, appliance, etc. with factory flaws and finish issues.
I think I'd still write to the president or CEO and send him/her pictures. I think the response would be enlightening. I would have thought they would have at least fixed the horrible stampings.
I think the current crop of handgun buyers doesn't put as much emphasis on looks as the old timers who valued craftsmanship, blued steel and walnut. That doesn't make either class of gun owners wrong. Most of today's mass produced firearm products aren't heirloom quality. S&W quality has definitely had its ups and downs over the decades. Looks like the downs are here to stay.
One of the reasons I only buy older revolvers made by SW these days. The very best ones were made pre 1970.
I learned my lesson with a 625-8. The old burn me once rule applies here.
I learned my lesson with a 625-8. The old burn me once rule applies here.
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Oldsalt66
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I resorted to that tactic after having returned my very early production model E Series 1911TA, which would not fire an 8 round magazine without stoppages of several different kinds, to Smith&Wesson for the 3rd time.
I sent a respectful but strong, registered letter accompanied by pictures of the various stoppages as they occurred with the pistol, as well as detailed shots of the various parts I believed to be problematic.
As a result, I was sent a new pistol that runs great and S&W modified the design features involved with causing problems, two of which involve the profile of the feed area of the frame and the replacement of the solid pin that holds the extractor in place with a roll pin, among others.
Writing to The CEO can be a productive way to have problems resolved.
The reason I don't by late model anything. What do they call it when one keeps doing the same thing expecting different results? The Golden Age is done. $900 will buy a nice Hi Condition S&W of many models. There ain't nothing new worth a hoot.
AJ
US Veteran
I would say that you are pretty much right!
