WWII: How many fighter planes were shot down by U.S. bombers?

[RonJ]

Funny, when I was around 8 or 9 yo I liked to draw pictures of planes, sometimes one dropping a bomb on another (both airborn). My teacher always said it couldn't happen, so I asked my Dad who said he supposed it could happen if the target plane was in the wrong place at the right time.

LVSteve, your post has exhonerated both me and my Dad!

 

[rojodiablo]

I've been watching a few war movies on TV over the holiday and watching the fighter planes attacking the slower moving bombers, it seems like an easy target for them. But then I see the big bombers with all the ball turrents with twin .50's and the windows everywhere with machine guns poking out, who really had the advantage. I know the Zeros and Messerschmidts were small and fast and harder to hit but there was a lot of firepower on the B-17s so just curious about how many fighters were shot down by bombers versus fighter to fighter, or anti-aircraft fire?

As a kid I asked my grandfather this very question: Did you guys shoot down a lot of German fighter planes?
His reply: "Not nearly enough."

Wallace Barker; navigator. WWII, Korea.

 

[zzzippper]

I know what became of Hartmann. After imprisonment by the Soviets under harsh conditions until the mid-1950s, he was released and became a Major General in the postwar Luftwaffe.

What became of Rudel? I understand that he remained a staunch Nazi. I don't think that Hartmann was ever a Party member.

Yes are correct on both. Rudel moved to South America, I believe Argentina, but returned to Germany. I believe he has passed away.

I met Hartmann at an airshow cometime around 1972. He was nice enough but a bit aloof. Maybe it was the crowds. My dad asked him the origins of our German surname and he seemed dismissive, even to a 14 year old. My brush with fame.

 

[Will Carry]

Speaking of P-38s:

When Charles Lindbergh went to the Pacific Theater in WWII. He actually flew a few "Combat Missions" but it was in a cold sector. He was talking with a P-38 mechanic. He told the mechanic that the fuel mixture was too thick and if he leaned in up a bid he would get another 300-400 miles of range out of the plane. The mechanic said that if he leaned up the fuel it would fowl the engines. But he was talking to CHARLES LINDBERGH! So they tweaked the engines like Lindbergh said, and it worked! So Charles Lindbergh probably saved some lives with that one tip.
I read this is a book called "The Wartime Diaries of Charles Lindbergh".

 

[Collo Rosso]

Funny, when I was around 8 or 9 yo I liked to draw pictures of planes, sometimes one dropping a bomb on another (both airborn). My teacher always said it couldn't happen, so I asked my Dad who said he supposed it could happen if the target plane was in the wrong place at the right time.

LVSteve, your post has exhonerated both me and my Dad!

They now think this is what happened to band leader Glenn Miller when he disappeared in 1944.

 

[Tam 3]

Col. Lindbergh was said to have knocked down a couple of Japanese planes while instructing fuel economy relating to P-38 operation with Tommy McGuire's outfit. General Marshall probably did not approve due to his opinion of the Colonel's remarks concerning Germany's air arm in the 30's.

Regards,

Tam 3

 

[alde]

My dads best friend was a B-17 belly gunner. He said the German fighters got close enough to make eye contact with. He also said that some of the German pilots would salute before pealing off to go home. He would have only been 19 or 20 at the time.

 

[zzzippper]

My dads best friend was a B-17 belly gunner. He said the German fighters got close enough to make eye contact with. He also said that some of the German pilots would salute before pealing off to go home. He would have only been 19 or 20 at the time.

Ball turret was a nasty position.

Read "A Higher Calling" if you want to , know about chivalry in the air.

 

[Texas Star]

Here's an interesting article about the P-38 and the ETO

Der Gabelschwanz Teufel - Assessing the Lockheed P-38 Lightning

This is a most impressive site and well worth studying. I was pleased to learn that by the time the P-38L arrived, it could equal or outdo any other fighter type, although being more expensive to operate and train pilots for.

 

[wbraswell]

That's bad. If a ME-109 pilot is making eye contact with the ball turret gunner, guess where he's aiming.

 

[the ringo kid]

I know what became of Hartmann. After imprisonment by the Soviets under harsh conditions until the mid-1950s, he was released and became a Major General in the postwar Luftwaffe.

What became of Rudel? I understand that he remained a staunch Nazi. I don't think that Hartmann was ever a Party member.

Correct, Hartmann never was a nazi. In fact--when he wa to be personally congradulated by Hitler when Hitler was still awarding Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds to those who earned them. Hartmann was going for his wardings fr his Oak Leaves--went to Hitlers lair--was told that he had to disarm and leave his pistol with the guards--and Hartmann said he cant wear have his weapon with him or trsted with one? that he would decline the award and leave. Needlessly to say--he was allowed to retain his sidearm.

Oh and did I mention that I own the last set of the 1957 "cleansed" awards--of Erich Hartmann. Its a cased set including: Knights Cross, Oak Leaves, Swords and Diamonds. However, being these wer made in the early 1980s--they are as ugly as sin and nowhere near the quality of the earlier sets he had made-let alone the quality of the ones he earned in WWII.

 

[the ringo kid]

Yes are correct on both. Rudel moved to South America, I believe Argentina, but returned to Germany. I believe he has passed away.

I met Hartmann at an airshow cometime around 1972. He was nice enough but a bit aloof. Maybe it was the crowds. My dad asked him the origins of our German surname and he seemed dismissive, even to a 14 year old. My brush with fame.

Rudel and hartmann are both gone. Hartmann passed away I THINK in 1999? I ccant remember?I know it was shortly after I got my 2nd autograph from him. Rudel I THINK died in the 1990s--and post war--had become a businessman I believe?

Galland died around the time Hartmann did--somewhere near it anyway. I remember getting his OBIT sent to me by a RKT-Luftwaffe Ace I had been friends with.

 

[Ματθιας]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfYMtSiFuIc

 

[jdlii]

This does not answer the OP's question but, contains information that I found quite interesting.

pippaettore.com/Horrific_WWII_Statistics.htm

This site was forwarded by a friend and I was able to access it on the first try. There does not appear to be a direct "link" and you may have to type the "address" into your browser.

 

[cowart]

The commentary says it was hit by AAA, but I believe later frame by frame analysis picked out a bomb from above.

I'm inclined to agree that it was AAA. The wing root was hit in multiple spots, pretty much simultaneously. Debris and fuel erupted upwards, not outwards or downwards.

You can review the footage, frame by frame at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lioRCye2Dug
starting around 54 seconds in

 

[cmort666]

Here is a bit of trivia:
Q: What was the first US fighter to fly from England to Berlin and back for escort duty?

A: The P-38 Lightning.

The P-38 suffered from "compressibility" which caused a reversal of the elevator control at high speeds, usually in dives.

The solution was to install speed brakes which restored effectiveness of the controls by lowering the speed.

The first sets of speed brakes were lost in shipment to the U.K..

Q: Who shot down the plane carrying the speed brakes?

A: The RAF, who apparently mistook the U.S.A.A.F. C-54 for a Luftwaffe FW-200.

 

[jimmyj]

Hi:
I am not a 'Airplane" person, but not too long ago I saw a photograph of a American Bomber gunner firing a MG though a bay like opening in the floor of the plane? Was this before the "Belly" ball turret ?

 

[rwsmith]

However many it was.....

However many the bomber gunners shot down, it wasn't enough. Until they got the P-51 escort fighter to help out, the losses to our bombers were TERRIBLE. Also the Germans learned to make head on passes that minimized the number of guns that could be trained on them and when the faster jet and rocket craft came out, we had serious trouble except that they came too late in the war to affect the outcome.

 

[Texas Star]

Hi:
I am not a 'Airplane" person, but not too long ago I saw a photograph of a American Bomber gunner firing a MG though a bay like opening in the floor of the plane? Was this before the "Belly" ball turret ?

Sounds like you saw a photo of a waist gunner that was printed sidewise or something.

 

[cmort666]

Hi:
I am not a 'Airplane" person, but not too long ago I saw a photograph of a American Bomber gunner firing a MG though a bay like opening in the floor of the plane? Was this before the "Belly" ball turret ?

Before the E model the B-17 didn't have either a remote control belly turret or the ball turret. It had a "bathtub" like an He111, or in some cases (I think) a ventral gun position at a hatch.