YORKTOWN

[OLDNAVYMCPO]

After the Battle of the Coral Sea, Commander Rochefort's combat intelligence section and more particularly Lt. Cmdr Wesley A. Wright, deciphered the date, time and plan for the Jap invasion of Midway.

The Japs, under Adm. Yamamoto, had a fleet of eight aircraft carriers, eleven battleships, sixteen cruisers and forty-nine destroyers. 84 ships total.

Adm Nimitz had 24 ships plus the crippled Yorktown. The best estimates said it would take 3 months to repair the damage done by an 800 pound bomb at the Coral Sea battle. Nimitz knew, thanks to the code breakers, exactly what the US fleet would be facing at Midway. He more than desperately needed the Yorktown.

Nimitz ordered the shipyard to do whatever it took to make the Yorktown seaworthy.

Three thousand men worked around the clock. Just shy of a miracle, they readied a capable fighting ship in just under three days.

Why was the timing so important. Yamamoto had deployed a fleet of 20 submarines to lie in wait near Pearl Harbor and report on the departure of the US fleet. From the code breakers, this was known. The US fleet, because of the rapid repair of Yorktown, departed before the enemy subs were in position to report their departure. Thus the element of surprise.

 

[jeffsmith]

As i understand it some of the Shipyard Workers got to go into battle
as they were still working when Yorktown sailed

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

My recollection was that Japan deployed four carriers to Midway. I do not know how many were at the decoy attack in the Aleutian Islands.

 

[fordson]

Six IJN fleet carriers were scheduled to participate in the Midway operation. Two smaller CV were sent to the Aleutian operation. The two newest fleet CVs - Shokaku and Zuikaku - did not play a part in the Midway operation because of battle damage to one CV and the destruction of the other CVs air wing at the Coral Sea. The Coral Sea was a tactical draw for both sides but a strategic win for the US.
A highly recommended book is Shattered Sword by J. Parshall and A. Tully.
If you are ever near Charleston SC, I highly recommend a visit to the "New" Yorktown which is docked at Mt. Pleasant.

 

[Targets Guy]

I got to spend three days on the USS Yorktown (CVA-10) in 1965 as she was doing qualifying ops for naval aviators in A-4's. Loved the midnight hamburgers. I didn't get much sleep as I was watching the flight ops as much as I could.

Quite a ship.

 

[Cyrano]

My recollection was that Japan deployed four carriers to Midway. I do not know how many were at the decoy attack in the Aleutian Islands.

Hiryu, Soryu, Kaga and Akagi.

 

[crazyphil]

I would like to know your opinions of the movie MIDWAY.
I know it has flaws, but every time it is on TV I have to watch it
again. Same with PATTON. Two of my favorites.

It has been said that it was the turning point in WWII
at least in the Pacific. I believe it. Had we not won
that historic battle no telling where we would be today.

 

[tlawler]

I would like to know your opinions of the movie MIDWAY.
I know it has flaws, but every time it is on TV I have to watch it
again. Same with PATTON. Two of my favorites.

It has been said that it was the turning point in WWII
at least in the Pacific. I believe it. Had we not won
that historic battle no telling where we would be today.

It had Charlton Heston, so it was good enough for me. I was 14 when it came out and went to see it in a theater that had "sensurround", I think it was called. The seats vibrated and shook. It was pretty cool. I just looked at the movie site and surprised to see some actors that I don't remember being in it. Like Tom Selleck, for one. Now I'm going to have to go watch it again.

 

[OLDNAVYMCPO]

I'm no movie critic but "Midway" is fairly accurate, especially in it's portrayal of the code breakers.

The Battle of Midway was the turning point in the war in the Pacific. Not only did the Japs lose their four great carriers, but 332 planes, a cruiser sunk, another will spend a year in repairs, three destroyers and killed 4,899 sailors. They also lost many experienced pilots. Also very importantly, the senior Naval officers who were skippers of their ships chose to go down with their ships. This also included the division commander, Admiral Tamon Yamaguchi who was reputed to be Yamamoto's successor. This latter loss of senior commanders had to affect future conduct of the war.

As in all human conflict, the outcome so frequently turns on minute details and chance. Things could have so easily gone the other way.

 

[Dennis The B]

While a big fan of Charlton Heston, I could have done without the entire bit about Ensign Garth, his girl friend, and Captain Garth's "interference" for his son; a detraction from the story. And, when Captain Garth flies a dive bomber? A little long on disbelief for me.

However, Henry Fonda portrayed Admiral Nimitz the way I've read of him; cool, caring, a real planner, and a bit of a gambler.

FWIW, I do appreciate the view from both sides. The fog of war, the indecision of bombs or torpedoes; that's war.

 

[bk42261]

Yeah, that Garth thing in "Midway" was, to me, Totally irrelevant and distracting- sort of like Shirley Joneses singing in "The Music Man"

 

[jimbo728]

Miracle at Midway by Gordon Prange is also highly informative and accurate to the last details. As far as I can tell from my research, Herman Wouk`s War and Remembrance listed by name the Naval Aviators of the US that gave their lives in the attack on IJN forces during the Midway battle.
Jim

 

[fordson]

This is a real interesting thread, so please excuse me if I stick my oar in once more.
In the late 1930s, Navy doctrine for carrier air attacks was to synchronize the dive and torpedo bomber attacks. This was due to the belief that torpedos and not bombs sank ships. Dive bombers, with heavy fighter escort, were to approach the target between 6K-9k feet before they pushed over into thier dive. This, in theory, would draw the enemy fighters and Ack ack toward them as the torpedo bombers dropped to wave top hight and attcked the target from two, if possible, sides. This gave the torpedo bombers a "free hand" with little fighter to ackack interference.
At Midway, just the opposite occurred. Because of the un-synchronized USN launch and the bad weather, the torpedo bombers (TBDs) arrived ahead to the dive bombers (SBDs). The TBDs drew the the ackack and fighter cover to wave top higth. They had an un-coordinated attack, practically in three waves, that kept the fighters and ackack focused on them. The SBDs came in at thier altitude with little opposition. The SBDs delivered thier bombs on target and , as is said, the rest is history.
Thanks for putting up with me.

 

[muddocktor]

It was four and all were damaged and on fire. The forth one survived to attack the damaged Yorktown (CV-5) and sunk it at Midway.

We lost:
1 carrier sunk
1 destroyer sunk
150 aircraft destroyed

The Imperial Japanese Navy lost:
4 carriers sunk
1 heavy cruiser sunk
1 heavy cruiser damaged
248 aircraft destroyed
3,057 killed (many of their best pilots)

A slight correction, GA 1911: The Yorktown was not sunk by the second attack from Hiryu. It was abandoned after the second attack, but after the ship stabilized they came back and were in the midst of operations to salvage the Yorktown when the Japanese submarine I-168 came by and put 1 torpedo in the USS Hammann and sunk her and another 2 torpedoes into the Yorktown. Those 2 torpedoes actually put the finish on CV-5.

For a pre-war design, the Yorktown Class could take a heck of a lot of punishment before sinking. The Yorktown herself didn't go down until after absorbing 3 bomb hits and 4 torpedo hits (2 aircraft torps and 2 sub torps). The USS Hornet (CV-8), took 3 bomb hits, a kamikaze hit from a damaged Japanese plane, and an air dropped torpedo hit. Then, Admiral Halsey got word that Japanese surface forces were coming and ordered the Hornet sunk. The American forces then put 9 torpedoes into the Hornet and over 400 5 inch rounds from 2 destroyers, which had to leave with the Hornet still afloat due to the Japanese surface forces arriving. It took another 4 Japanese torpedoes from 2 of their destroyers to finally put the Hornet under. The third ship of the class, USS Enterprise (CV-6) took some pretty extreme damage several times during WWII but survived it all and was finally broken up for scrap in the late 50's.

 

[VaTom]

A good book about Midway and the carrier aviators involved is "Pacific Payback" by Stephen L. Moore published in 2014. Read it while on vacation this summer.

 

[crazyphil]

Lt. Cmdr. Wesley A. Wright, and his crew of "Silent Warriors" were truly
unsung heroes of the war in the Pacific.
Alan Turing and his team of mathemeticians cracked the German Enigma
code which helped us win WWII in Europe.
I was a cryptographer with the USAFSS and NSA 1952-1956. But, Hell,
I can't even crack Heiser's holster size codes.

 

[LVSteve]

For me, three things were key to the US victory at Midway:

1) The codebreakers.

2) The SBDs arriving late after the Japanese fighter cover had been pulled low.

3) The Japanese not using CO2 as a fire suppressant in their high octane fuel tanks.

I'm not sure if the failed radio in the Japanese scout plane depicted in the movie is true or not. If true, it would be the fourth factor.

 

[OLDNAVYMCPO]

Lt. Cmdr. Wesley A. Wright, and his crew of "Silent Warriors" were truly
unsung heroes of the war in the Pacific.
Alan Turing and his team of mathemeticians cracked the German Enigma
code which helped us win WWII in Europe.
I was a cryptographer with the USAFSS and NSA 1952-1956. But, Hell,
I can't even crack Heiser's holster size codes.

I can't believe you didn't mention "Cynthia" ( Amy Elizabeth Thorpe ) a sex-starved American seductress spy who worked for British Intelligence and who seduced her way into stealing both the Vichy French naval code and the Italian naval code. So what if she wasn't much on math, she was quite skilled in her methods.

 

[crazyphil]

Of course I am aware of the exploits of "Cynthia". It's difficult to
tell the facts from the legends. She was legendary. I prefer facts.

 

[Gamecock]

My recollection was that Japan deployed four carriers to Midway. I do not know how many were at the decoy attack in the Aleutian Islands.

The Japanese produced a too elegant plan. Too many admirals had their hands on it. They should have just gotten into their ships and rode over to Midway.

The Battle of Midway was indeed the tactical turning point of the War in the Pacific. Strategically - as Yamamoto knew - as long as the U.S. decided to continue fighting, we couldn't lose. Had the Japanese sunk all of our carriers at Midway, we would have still won the war. It would have just taken a little longer.