Young Men and Behavior

[326MOD10]

Here is something to ponder.

Do you think today's youth just woke up one day and was all screwed up?

You want to know who is responsible take a look in the mirror.

The things we blame have been developed and cultivated over generations previous.

It is like a relationship when it is over we all just want to remember the good things. Not the harm we may have caused.

 

[ExcitableBoy]

I am of the Robert A. Heinlein school of thought: No federal service of some sort, or no enfranchisement. It doesn't matter if it would be military, police, park ranger, or whatever.

Paying taxes is not a qualifier. All that just means that you can avail yourself of publicly funded services, utilities and the use of public roads, etc.

To put it into old programmer terms: GIGO (Garbage In, Garbage Out).

Do something for the country!!!

 

[Golddollar]

Belgium used to have a system I admired 20 years ago when I had to go over there for short periods of time while in the military. Recognizing that not everyone is suited for military service discipline, all Belgian males aged 17 to 25 years old were required to do either 1 year in the military, or 2 years performing other public service such as cleaning windows on public buildings, doing grounds maintenance in the parks and around public buildings, picking up trash, etc.

Or at least that's what I heard from more than one source.

I'm going to throw the overalls in the chowder. How many new bureaucrats will be needed to administer such a program? Who decides who gets assigned to what job? And what happens when the assignee of the job doesn't want to do it?

I never had any children so I am not going to pretend I have any answers about how children should be raised. But I do like to draw upon the experience of a friend and classmate of mine, who became a Judge Advocate Corps (JAG) attorney in the Marine Corps. He described to me the counseling he gave to criminal defendants and the predictable courses of behavior that these defendants would fall into if they continued to make bad choices in life. This is what he told the defendants he counseled. I guess the upshot was he tried to impress upon these defendants that ultimately they had to make the affirmative decision to make good life choices to keep out of progressively more serious trouble.

 

[Donn]

This subject's a well worn path, here and elsewhere on the interwebs. MHO? the draft's been gone too long, bringing it back up would be way more trouble than it's worth. When I went in, ('69), the draft was a way of life. After high school, guys either enlisted or went to work and waited for their "greetings," like Dad, brothers, uncles, and so on. That link was broken a long time ago. Even if we were put upon by China or Russia and the draft was reinstated, it would be a Chinese fire drill, (no pun intended). By the time sufficient recruits were ready, we'd be overrun.

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

Yes, for those of us who served in the Draft Era military-Army in my case, though I was an RA- we found the old notion that the Army was a place to "grow up" was "greatly exaggerated". "What's the difference between the Army and the Boy Scouts ? The Boy Scouts have adult leaders."
Video games ? Back in the 1950s when "juvenile delinquency" alarmed people, comic books became the designated villain, though as MAD publisher William Gaines said "Delinquents don't read." Then in the 1960s and 70s it was TV, then pornography.
I blame drugs myself, the long term effects are starting to be understood, when brain cells burn out they don't regenerate.

 

[UncleEd]

I am of the Robert A. Heinlein school of thought: No federal service of some sort, or no enfranchisement. It doesn't matter if it would be military, police, park ranger, or whatever.

Paying taxes is not a qualifier. All that just means that you can avail yourself of publicly funded services, utilities and the use of public roads, etc.

Do something for the country!!!

So ultimately, even in peace time a "citizen"
is really nothing more than subservient
chattel for Caesar.

 

[UncleEd]

I guarantee one and all that if
a military draft was reinstated,
voter awareness would rise
a thousand-fold as to what
hostilities and ventures would
get support or no support.

 

[Rustyt1953]

Darned young folks...

Ages in 1776:

James Monroe, 18
Aaron Burr, 20
John Marshall, 20
Alexander Hamilton, 21
James Madison, 25
Benjamin Rush, 30
John Jay, 30
Thomas Jefferson, 33
Thomas Paine: 39


PS: I am against peace time conscription.

 

[Chubbo]

My opinion

This is my candid opinion of the good behavior, of young humans. And that includes both genders. This is my belief; it's best to start good behavior training at birth.

Good behavior can only be achieved by training, as it's not a natural trait.

Both genders excel at different things.

I believe, that there are many good reasons why, there's has never been a draft and mandatory service for women. I won't discuss 'm, but will give a couple of hypothetical examples to be contemplated.

Buy a flock of roosters to produce eggs, and observe the results.

Ask the opinion of our fighting men.

Buy a herd of bulls for milk production, and observe their behavior at miking time.

I don't believe, that women, although they are willing and eager to help fight wars should be subjected to the terrors, and wounds of combat, nor should they distract the fighting men.

I've given my sincere opinion, about my belief, that was gained by my training. Furthermore, I merely want to protect our fair ladies.

Now that I've insulted, and alienated most of the folks of the 'Big Blue', I'll just have to sit back and suffer the consequences.

My apology to all.

Chubbo

 

[delcrossv]

Here is something to ponder.

Do you think today's youth just woke up one day and was all screwed up?

You want to know who is responsible take a look in the mirror.

The things we blame have been developed and cultivated over generations previous.

It is like a relationship when it is over we all just want to remember the good things. Not the harm we may have caused.

Reminds me of posts on this forum where the poster laments that their kids are all anti gun and he has no one to give his collection to.

Did you take your kids shooting? Frequently?

Did you explain the necessity of the right to Keep and Bear Arms?

Did you explain, over and over, about natural law and "inalienable rights endowed by their Creator"?

Did you take time to explain the workings and failings of this Constitutional Republic?

Or did you let your kids be raised by Tik Tok, YouTube and the Public Schools?

America is reaping what they've sown, that's for sure.

I paid twice for a private education, Once in taxes, once in tuition. So I drive a 20year old car and never have money for "nice things". Best investment I ever made.

All my kids are competent shooters and have no animosity for firearms. The oldest is getting out of the Navy and his little brother is employed in a skilled trade. The next six are on their way to being good responsible citizens.
Clearly worth the expense.

 

[steelslaver]

Here is something to ponder.

Do you think today's youth just woke up one day and was all screwed up?

You want to know who is responsible take a look in the mirror.

The things we blame have been developed and cultivated over generations previous.

It is like a relationship when it is over we all just want to remember the good things. Not the harm we may have caused.

For the most part I agree. The parents are far more to blame than the schools. The school isn't there to teach kids manners or morals. That is the parents responsibility. If the school turns your kid into a pinko commie it is because you sent them a kid that could EASILY be turned into one. One of my steps made a comment about America having done some "bad stuff". I asked he what she though of the history of the Dutch, French, English and their colonialism and slavery. The Germans, The Japanese, the Chinese, the Norse and the Monguls. I asked her to tell me about the country that was perfect though out their history. I said yes America had slaves and 360,000 Union solders died to free them at a time when that was almost 1 in 10 of the northern men. I asked how about all those who died in Europe during WWII, we could have stayed out of Europe.. Germany never attracted never attacked us. I could see some lights coming on.

They are your kids. YOU teach them, YOU make them Think. You go to the PTA the school council meetings. To many send them off to school a complete and total blank expecting the school to teach them manners, discipline and how and what to think and then are baffled by the results.

 

[Greyman50]

I Thank God that my 2 are fine, one owns very good business, one a Med Surg. RN and their kids are fine too. I reflect on all of their " upbringing", church, good home life, taught to drive on riding lawn mower, years of firearms history, safety and shooting. Work around home and frequent visits to grandparents, helping with work around grandparents homes. Travel to historic sites and constant exposure to US and world history. I am blessed.

 

[arjay]

I think kids (most of them) respond or react to their environment. If they are surrounded by good people and go to good schools,they will turn out just fine.If they aren't,some will do well in spite of it all,but a lot of them won't and the cycle will continue. They need good examples to emulate and that starts at home.

 

[Rustyt1953]

My mother was raised on M&M's. Morals and Manners. She instilled that in my sister, my brother and me. We instilled it in our children and they theirs.

As arjay stated "the cycle continues".

 

[Golddollar]

Reminds me of posts on this forum where the poster laments that their kids are all anti gun and he has no one to give his collection to.


Did you take time to explain the workings and failings of this Constitutional Republic?

Or did you let your kids be raised by Tik Tok, YouTube and the Public Schools?

/QUOTE]

I tried to do my part, and they weren't even my children (see Post #13 under "Thinking About Independence Day"). Apparently I must have stepped on somebody's toes.

Blessings to you for the sacrifices you made to pay for private school tuition, on top of the school taxes, to educate your children.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Not that anyone cares what an old man says, but I blame participation trophies, drugging little boys in school until they act like little girls, and above all teaching kids that they are always right, and all their problems are always somebody else's fault.

 

[Llance]

"I don't believe, that women, although they are willing and eager to help fight wars should be subjected to the terrors, and wounds of combat, nor should they distract the fighting men.

I've given my sincere opinion, about my belief, that was gained by my training. Furthermore, I merely want to protect our fair ladies."

Tell this to Stalin and the Soviets of WWII and even today in Ukraine. While it is not the nature of women to fight and kill it is their nature to serve and protect the men and children they are around. Don't forget one of the greatest snipers of WWII was a Soviet woman who racked up over 300 kills. Germans who invaded her country. I dare to postulate that should some country decide ours is a land of wimps they would find out right quick we project an appearance of weakness until we are attacked. Look at the fallout of 9-11 and how many of our weak, simpleminded citizens took hell to the Taliban. God help the stupid country that invades this one. The Japanese learned their lesson. There never would have been a Hiroshima if there had never been a Pearl Harbour.

 

[Beemerguy53]

...We have some sick puppies running around out there...

We also have a lot of parents in this society who are too busy being anything but parents. They enable their kids and indulge them, never set limits on them, and never hold them accountable for anything they do wrong.

I've written here on the Forum about one of my sons, who is a federal law enforcement agent. About 10 years ago he sent me a Father's Day card I wouldn't sell for a million bucks. He wrote in it that he knows he wouldn't be where he is today without my loving guidance and discipline, and that while he thought I was just a hard-*** when he was growing up, he knows how much I loved him.

If more kids got that message from Mom and Dad, I think we'd have a lot fewer problems in this society...

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I like to quote the words of a New Jersey judge who told a welfare queen who appeared before him as a plaintiff that she was using her children as "meal tickets."
One of the great unaddressed issues of our day is the widespread rejection by men of the role of provider and protector and fatherhood has become one of the last-and least- ways by which manliness is defined.

 

[steelslaver]

I like to quote the words of a New Jersey judge who told a welfare queen who appeared before him as a plaintiff that she was using her children as "meal tickets."
One of the great unaddressed issues of our day is the widespread rejection by men of the role of provider and protector and fatherhood has become one of the last-and least- ways by which manliness is defined.

Some of us were told to buzz off, just send money, for no good reason. When I was under 30 a woman could load up the kids and move where ever and men were given little choice. Now couples must have a parenting plan and neither can have full custody unless one of them really is Atlia the Hun. My ex got the kids, she has never had a single relationship last 3 years. I was with my late wife for over 25 until the day she died. I have been with my present wife and step daughters for over 7 years My real kids think I am the one who is descended from Genghis Khan. I mostly hear from them when they need money.

 

[johngalt]

The purpose of the military is to keep us safe from foreign enemies, not a reform school for feral punks. I prefer my tax money be spent on people who want to be there, not conscripts.

The last I read, the military doesn't want them either.

 

[Greyman50]

Had a good friend ( deceased)also from Va. that in mid 50's got into trouble. Went to court, judge told him, armed forces or jail.Jack went in the Army, turned out very well. His collection of " war between the states" is unbelievable, as is his gun collection. RIP Jack

 

[Mike SC Hunter]

Not attending church. Raised in non 2 parent homes. No correction for dong bad(I FEARED THE BELT). No morals or manners. Cell phones at age 10.

I still can't wrap my head around my post in the "Happy Birthday" thread where no one knows any of our countries history.....Reckon the ZOMBIES are real.

 

[Bald1]

I can't help but think that a lot of today's delinquents are the result of the realistic and violent video games that promote killing and destruction. If anything needs a 21 and up license it's that nonsense.

There are so many things culminating these days to corrupt the young minds full of mush, it takes a strong morally founded family unit to raise a youngster properly. At this point, I believe all we can do is set good examples, and pray a lot.

I agree. Yet I keep hearing "it takes a village to raise a child". No it takes a heavy handed father figure who leads by example. Growing up my father never once laid a hand on me. BUT I KNEW HE WOULD. That's all it took for me to walk the line. Today single mothers and dead beat dads have their hands out looking for help. It's a generational issue. I don't know the answer to fixing it.

 

[steelslaver]

Consider this. There are lots of great kids out there right now. I meet them all the time though my step daughters. Ya a couple of them have green or purple hair. Big deal. The wife and I went to a game at the civic center a while back. There was limited seating, but some high school boys stood up and offered us their seats.

It is like a road sign with bullet holes in it. You see all the holes, what you don't see is any sign of the guys with a guns who just drove on by.

Besides while it is true there are problems, how to they really compare to Bonny and Clyde, Dillinger, Floyd, the gangs of New York, the Chicago mob? The worst mass murder of school children was in 1927 when a guy blew up the Bath school and killed 38 kids and 6 adults and it would have been far worse but his second bomb failed to go off. Charles Whitman was in the Marines in the 60s when IT WAS all about Disipline, he went nuts and killed 14 and wounded a bunch more. Charles Manson was in the 60s and Ted Bundy was in the 70s. The San Ysidro McDonald's massacre was in 84 and left 21 dead and 19 wounded. The acts are not new, the sensationalism is and that is a big part of why there is more of it.

 

[WR Moore]

Return to the draft isn't real likely for many reasons. Having to train new bodies to operate and maintain complex equipment every 2 years or so being one of them.

However, and quite oddly and unintentionally, the draft did something else. It got people types together who otherwise would never in their lives have met. Stereotypes frequently got busted and you learned to work and live with folks you didn't particularly like. Some form of universal service would be a good idea.

Otherwise, a future like the late Jerry Pournelle envisioned might be closer than we think. A society with 2 classes of people: citizens who live subsidized lives (drugs included) in welfare housing and taxpayers. Taxpayers vote. Being science fiction, citizens periodically get shipped off planet. Where they frequently destroy other civilizations.

 

[Beemerguy53]

...One of the great unaddressed issues of our day is the widespread rejection by men of the role of provider and protector and fatherhood has become one of the last-and least- ways by which manliness is defined.

I have long maintained that the only reason for a man not to marry the mother of his children is so he can just bail out of the relationship at any time...

 

[Beemerguy53]

I agree. Yet I keep hearing "it takes a village to raise a child". No it takes a heavy handed father figure who leads by example. Growing up my father never once laid a hand on me. BUT I KNEW HE WOULD. That's all it took for me to walk the line...

My sons will both attest that when they were growing up, I told them over and over again that if I ever caught them smoking anything, it wouldn't be cancer that killed them...

 

[zeke]

My confidence in the younger generation leaped forward today. Ran into a young man with an obviously excellent upbringing, high moral standard, good respectful manners and an inate knowledge of who the good people are. Held the door open for him at gas station when his hands were full of coffee orders, and he said thank you SIR.

 

[Bald1]

Zeke, isn't it a shame when we are so impressed with youth that do what was simply expected of you and I.