Your right to self defense

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The company would much rather you die rather than risk you hurting a "customer." If you die their workers comp insurance covers everything. If you injure a "customer" their exposure is huge. Even the legal costs if they do not get a judgement against them would be more than they would be out if the clerk is killed. It is a bottom-line decision.
 
A job at a convenience store is both dangerous, and replaceable very quickly. I would defend myself in a heartbeat without any thought of whether or not the company was going to fire me. If they do, I'll have another convenience store job before they're done with the paperwork. And I'll still be alive.

I hope this lady sues Circle K. It'll be hard to look good in court when firing a 72-year-old lady.
 
That's how corporations are, they fire anyone who does anything that could even potentially lead to a lawsuit.

It's actually pretty funny how these corporations hire the most expensive attorneys money can by to defend them in court, yet go out of their way to avoid using them, even if it only results in exposing them to yet another potential lawsuit in the process.

That's why nobody should ever expect loyalty from their employers, they'll sooner cut you loose than defend you because in the end, all they care about is money.
 
Tell a person that runs to gunfire to hide while people are in danger.
Gun goes off, instincts take over.
 
That's how corporations are, they fire anyone who does anything that could even potentially lead to a lawsuit.

It's actually pretty funny how these corporations hire the most expensive attorneys money can by to defend them in court, yet go out of their way to avoid using them, even if it only results in exposing them to yet another potential lawsuit in the process.

That's why nobody should ever expect loyalty from their employers, they'll sooner cut you loose than defend you because in the end, all they care about is money.

I think their legions of lawyers are often for contract and other similar civil law concerns. Suing people and businesses for breach of contract, reviewing contracts, legal notices, ect. Their main job is not sitting around waiting for the families of dead thugs to launch lawsuits, or answer every ambulance chaser who tries to make a ticket over an injury in a parking lot.

The sad state of affairs with law is that it is so expensive to defend yourself, it is oft advised to "just settle, still cheaper than winning", which leads to the very worst of lawyers winning in many cases where they don't have merit.

Sometimes principle, or setting an example to stop predatory lawsuits, means they will stand and fight, especially against the most obvious baseless claims. But, sometimes it is easier to throw them a few bucks and make the whole thing go away.

I think the entire problem in this particular case is that it truly is "an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure". By simply making the policy AT ALL, they will oft make themselves nearly immune to a lawsuit, by setting a company policy in the first place. When an employee uses a weapon in self defense, they can claim to have washed their hands by simply having a policy against in the first place, meaning the employee acted on their own will against the company.

Even if the management team at the company agreed with the employee and thought she did the right thing, they will still opt to simply fire her and reinforce their policy to mitigate liability. So the next bandit who gets greased on company property is not their problem.

I can understand the animosity towards the company. On the other hand, i understand the current sad state of civil law in the US, and how much bad lawyers cause harm to society through tossing lawsuits at the wall to see what sticks.

The first step to fixing this is tort reform. Something we will never get.
 
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Yeah supervisor should be fired and the cashier should get 7 figures because of their nonsense. The line between stopping a shop lifter and protecting yourself is very blurry……… I heard California was trying to pass a law similar to this, saying a merchant can not stop a robbery or shoplifter. Or something to the effect.
 
I will play Devil's advocate here on something that isn't mentioned in the story and one other point that isn't made clear.

I am assuming that Circle K has a policy about not attempting to stop shoplifters/robbers. That policy isn't in place to protect the thief. That policy is in place because of all the well meaning clerks who have been stabbed, shot, etc.... by the crackhead who is stealing whatever.

The story talks about the criminal saying he wasn't going to pay for the cigarettes. He then walks around the counter and starts to take the cigarettes himself. If I am not mistaken that is when she reaches out to grab him and tells him no basically. I can't recall the exact words. But if you look at the photo she is reaching out to him. He isn't pushing a knife in her face and in fact almost has his back to her.

Where in this article does it say anything about the thief attacking her? I didn't see it and don't think it happened even after she reached out to grab him. He may have pushed her aside at that point and basically committed a robbery but for all we know he wouldn't have even done that had she just let him take the smokes and leave. And we aren't even sure of that because the knife alone raises it to robbery.

Did she create the situation that required her to use "self defense". And based off the still photo I would have to see the video to determine if we are talking self defense or just trying to stop him from stealing.

Now if I have a policy that says thou shall not intervene in a theft and put yourself at risk and she does then she has violated that policy. If I let this slide then I have set precedence that it is okay to do this. When the next clerk does the same and gets killed then I am in for a lawsuit.

I get it this poor lady was just doing what her instincts told her to do. But the corporation has to look out for the best interest of the corporation regardless of how bad some may think it makes them look.

Gather the pitchforks and torches but you have to understand there is two sides to every story and this will be interesting to see how it turns out.

My guess is settlement for far less to avoid anymore negative publicity. But that doesn't make them wrong, just cheap.
 
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There was a Home Depot store I knew of in the Bronx that had a hands off policy for their employees.
Don't stop anyone, don't follow anyone, even if you know they're stealing.
I wonder if they are still open.

That's the policy of the Home Depot's and Lowe's in Amarillo, Texas and has been for years. Security is a joke. Employees are not allowed to follow shoplifters outside or approach the crooks in any way. Crazy what has happened to the businesses in the past few years.
 
I will play Devil's advocate here on something that isn't mentioned in the story and one other point that isn't made clear.

I am assuming that Circle K has a policy about not attempting to stop shoplifters/robbers. That policy isn't in place to protect the thief. That policy is in place because of all the well meaning clerks who have been stabbed, shot, etc.... by the crackhead who is stealing whatever.

The story talks about the criminal saying he wasn't going to pay for the cigarettes. He then walks around the counter and starts to take the cigarettes himself. If I am not mistaken that is when she reaches out to grab him and tells him no basically. I can't recall the exact words. But if you look at the photo she is reaching out to him. He isn't pushing a knife in her face and in fact almost has his back to her.

Where in this article does it say anything about the thief attacking her? I didn't see it and don't think it happened even after she reached out to grab him. He may have pushed her aside at that point and basically committed a robbery but for all we know he wouldn't have even done that had she just let him take the smokes and leave. And we aren't even sure of that because the knife alone raises it to robbery.

Did she create the situation that required her to use "self defense". And based off the still photo I would have to see the video to determine if we are talking self defense or just trying to stop him from stealing.

Now if I have a policy that says thou shall not intervene in a theft and put yourself at risk and she does then she has violated that policy. If I let this slide then I have set precedence that it is okay to do this. When the next clerk does the same and gets killed then I am in for a lawsuit.

I get it this poor lady was just doing what her instincts told her to do. But the corporation has to look out for the best interest of the corporation regardless of how bad some may think it makes them look.

Gather the pitchforks and torches but you have to understand there is two sides to every story and this will be interesting to see how it turns out.

My guess is settlement for far less to avoid anymore negative publicity. But that doesn't make them wrong, just cheap.

What you are saying is the management considers it's employees as liabilities not assets.

If she wasn't in fear of her safety why was the suspect arrested and charged with Aggravated Robbery and Menacing with a Deadly Weapon instead of simple misdemeanor shoplifting?

Will Circle K management testify for the former employee or for the suspect? If the Corporate Policy is too give whatever a person wants without paying for it then that isn't robbery is it?

And since she touched him and prevented him from helping himself she committed a battery so he is entitled to compensation from the Company. Oh wait she violated company policy so they cannot be sued. He has to sue her. How can she going to afford a lawyer? Sell her home and what few items she has to pay for one?

My last employer was like Circle K management. The company was sold and the first thing new management did was to start firing it's employees and replace them with Contractors. Then they reduce staffing over working the remaining employees and making it difficult to take time off which reduces the quality of care the customers receive.

Not sure how cost effective this is going to be to the bottom line. The remaining employees are very unhappy and they are trying to Unionize. Once they successfully unionize then they will be in a position to make changes that they want. If management digs it's heels in and refuses to make changes then things will get really ugly with a strike. Either way management has lost any good will and trust it use to have with their employees and created a major P.R. problem.
 
Maybe it would be better for stores to do away with cashiers and just keep the stocking crew. Reduced employees = reduced payroll.

Check out would be the honor system. Grab what you want, leave your money in some type of drop box (or not) and then leave.

Nobody gets hurt.

question-mark.jpg
 
Maybe it would be better for stores to do away with cashiers and just keep the stocking crew. Reduced employees = reduced payroll.

Check out would be the honor system. Grab what you want, leave your money in some type of drop box (or not) and then leave.

Nobody gets hurt.

question-mark.jpg

Except for the "honor system payment " this sounds just like Walmart!
 
My daughter worked for a few years part time at a Coach leather products store in a big mall. The employees were told they were never to intervene if they witnessed someone walking out with their expensive products. Not to say a word, just let the crook take what they wanted. Told to call mall security, which of course never arrived in time to stop the thief.

On the other hand, I would not have wanted for my daughter to be assaulted by a thieving low life either, just trying to retrieve some stolen purse or the like.

There are people out there who can turn into violent beasts in a second when confronted about their behavior. Occasionally, in my medical practice, a parent or sometimes teen patient would just go berserk in a heartbeat at the front desk. Pull guns, knives, attack our front desk staff, and several times me. I felt it my duty to protect our staff from verbal and esp physical abuse, and perhaps due to our office location, when we called the police, they arrived in what seemed like mere seconds.

I suspect there have been men and women who are capable of near instantaneous violent reactions for as long as people have existed. A good example is the frequent occurrences of "road rage."

Time for another cup of coffee.... SF VET
 
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