TexasRider
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Interesting thread.
Thanks to all the guys who responded .
Thanks to all the guys who responded .
Jim Cirillo's Service Revolver, the Model 10.
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I haven't seen the picture, but from reading the posts it appears that everyone is assuming that the revolver in the photo belongs to Cirillo.
Ayoob says JC wrapped the butt of his revolver with tape and the handgun in the picture is described as having "wood service grip panels with grooves cut into the wood for the fingers to get a good hold/grip".
I doubt the revolver in question belonged to Cirillo, a wide hammer is too likely to snag on clothes etc., he was too savvy a gunfighter for that!
Ayoob says JC wrapped the butt of his revolver with tape and the handgun in the picture is described as having "wood service grip panels with grooves cut into the wood for the fingers to get a good hold/grip".
I doubt the revolver in question belonged to Cirillo, a wide hammer is too likely to snag on clothes etc., he was too savvy a gunfighter for that!
He carried the Glock 19 didn't he? I have a couple articles published just a couple years before his death in which he was pretty complimentary to the model.
Dang, I wish I woulda knowed that a target hammer and trigger wasn't cool back when I was carryin' this ol 58. I woulda probably throwed it a way.
We was in some serious social encounters and din't git kilt none. Sure glad I din't know I was usin' inferior equipment.
We was in some serious social encounters and din't git kilt none. Sure glad I din't know I was usin' inferior equipment.
Dang, I wish I woulda knowed that a target hammer and trigger wasn't cool back when I was carryin' this ol 58. I woulda probably throwed it a way.
We was in some serious social encounters and din't git kilt none. Sure glad I din't know I was usin' inferior equipment.
You were just dang lucky iggy. Yep. Totin around piece of old junk like that. What were you thinkin?
texagun
Member
In his video, Secrets Of A Master Gunfighter, He trained with, and preferred a Glock 20 in 10mm. with an after-market barrel.
From Tales Of The Stakeout Squad:
"Toward the end of his life, Jim had become a Glock man. He used a Glock 20 with custom , extended 10mm barrel as a deer hunting pistol. His preferred carry guns were the Glock 30 .45 ACP compact and the Glock 27 subcompact in .40.....there were days when he carried the old hammer-shrouded Colt .38 too."
mc5aw
Member
There is another possibility ...
In Cirillo's videos, he describes the handgun grip position he adopted due to his short, thick fingers. Everything he did was deliberate, so it's not inconceivable that a target hammer simply worked better on that particular revolver due to his hand/finger size.
In Cirillo's videos, he describes the handgun grip position he adopted due to his short, thick fingers. Everything he did was deliberate, so it's not inconceivable that a target hammer simply worked better on that particular revolver due to his hand/finger size.
BJoe
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At LAST. The voice of reason. Every gun, modification, and shooting style is NOT done with a ulterior motive. Sometimes they just fit YOU better.
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There is not much in the world of defensive shooting a well practiced person can not do with a Model 10 - especially with today's ammo available. A 3" - 4" M10 and BB Heavy 38 special +P's is like having a low end .357 Magnum and that is enough for just about any bad guy.
If I am not mistaken, Jim was also a big fan of the .30 M1 carbine when raiding a house or building.
If I am not mistaken, Jim was also a big fan of the .30 M1 carbine when raiding a house or building.
I'm also a big fan of the GI 30 Carbine, to the point of casting and handloading my own Ideal 311 359 PT GC boolits. That sharp point cast of sorta hard lead really penetrates. Each one doesn't hit like a .45, but it's SO easy to put 3 or more in so close together with that low recoil.
As to the target hammer, and for that matter the target trigger, that's the way I like my 57 set up and I'm no better with it single action than I am double action. A smooth action is the absolute KEY.
Yes that's right. I looked up the articles. He liked the G19. Said it was a good sized frame and fired an adequate load if the shooter made sure they used a good load, but he did not carry the G19.
mc5aw
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I believe a chopped stock .30 carbine was one of Cirillo's stake-out team guns.
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If Cirillo had a TH, he must have wanted a TH.
Maybe he did like to shoot some SA. Maybe he wanted to pop a distant pigeon now and then.
When one shoots a gun set up like he wants it to be, it is possible to become as good DA as with SA for most practical shooting. He might still occasionally want to shoot SA for maximum precision. I used to shoot gophers in a garden with a handgun. They were about the size of chipmunks. Even though I was at my peak for DA shooting, I still usually shot them SA because of the target size and distance.
Maybe he did like to shoot some SA. Maybe he wanted to pop a distant pigeon now and then.
When one shoots a gun set up like he wants it to be, it is possible to become as good DA as with SA for most practical shooting. He might still occasionally want to shoot SA for maximum precision. I used to shoot gophers in a garden with a handgun. They were about the size of chipmunks. Even though I was at my peak for DA shooting, I still usually shot them SA because of the target size and distance.
shawn mccarver
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I agree with Lee. NOTHING with respect to his shooting, his guns or his ammo was done at random, by accident or because "the armorer only had a target hammer to replace his broken standard hammer after a New York reload."
policerevolvercollector
Member
+1
I carry a Glock 33 everyday as a backup at work & off duty. It functions exactly like my issued Glock 22 does. It simply works for me. You may be devoted to the 1911 or S&Ws etc. etc. That's A-OK too! When we find what works for each of us,we should stick to it like Mr. Cirillo did. After reading his books, I believe that he tried different things until he found the right configuration. Nothing more scientific (or accidental) than that......
Malpasowildlifer
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IMHO, no gun is perfect for everyone and agencies should provide options or allow personally owned firearms.
Still gotta read Cirillo's book!
Still gotta read Cirillo's book!
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RichCapeCod
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I knew Jim after we'd both retired from the NYPD. I'd find it unusual for Jim to put a target hammer on a ''serious'' Handgun. The S&W revolver can be fired more accurately double-action than when using the SA mode.
A million years ago, when firing my 10 slow/timed/rapid fire, even when firing slow fire only DA was used. Yeah, takes some practice and development of muscle memory but that's how it was done.
The hammer pictured below is on my service model 10. Never use it (decoration, I guess!). Note the smoothing of the ''teeth'' on the hammer? Saved on clothes.
A million years ago, when firing my 10 slow/timed/rapid fire, even when firing slow fire only DA was used. Yeah, takes some practice and development of muscle memory but that's how it was done.
The hammer pictured below is on my service model 10. Never use it (decoration, I guess!). Note the smoothing of the ''teeth'' on the hammer? Saved on clothes.
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Couple of comments- I don't know about the use of a target hammer, but if you're using a service type holster, most of them require a hammer spur to retain the weapon (particularly in ye days of olde). The second comment is that a hammer spur comes in very handy in the case of a high primer or other minor interference that might prevent a DA stroke from turning the cylinder. A hearty yank on the hammer spur can rotate the cylinder and allow the shot a heck of a lot faster than a NY reload.
Back in the day, I needed to do that during a qualification after a cratered primer hung the cylinder up. We figured that out after the stage was over-there weren't any alibis in our qualifications.
Back in the day, I needed to do that during a qualification after a cratered primer hung the cylinder up. We figured that out after the stage was over-there weren't any alibis in our qualifications.
RichCapeCod
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As I mentioned I first really spoke with Jim when we were both retired from the dept. (I became chief of police in Wellfleet MA PD). We traded books (I've published a few as did Jim). He was very gracious and put this very nice comment in the book he sent to me (Guns, Bullets and Gunfights).
If anyone cares I just put out another one, Practical Handgun Training:
photography, Framed in Wellfleet Welllfleet, MA Books for Sale
If anyone cares I just put out another one, Practical Handgun Training:
photography, Framed in Wellfleet Welllfleet, MA Books for Sale
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hotrod150
Member
I question this statement. I will agree that it can be just as accurate in DA as in SA for some shooters (unfortunately not including me), but MORE accurate?
