JUST SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT..22LR CENTERFIRE CARTRIDGE

Eddie Southgate said:

Calling bull on that unless you show proof.

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See post 7.

BC38 said:

INTERESTING! Never heard of this one before.
One bit of info that wasn't listed in the reloading specs you linked is the primer. Does this take the standard SPP?
Any sources for brass that you know of?
Looks like someone proved JMB wrong. Wonder why it never caught on?

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Yes, it took the standard small pistol primer. I am not aware of any current suppliers of brass or rifles. Cooper Arms is still in business, the might know.

Kevin

oldrookey617 said:

If 22LR is so popular, Why don't they make a 22LR Centerfire Cartridge ? and a nice S&W Revolver, and Rifle to go with it.. would that be a lot more dependable for small game hunting, If you like, self defense ? They sure make a lot of other's in centerfire.. Just something I'm throwing out there..

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Are you asking about a centerfire cartridge that is dimensionally the same as the 22 Long Rifle? Or merely a 22 caliber cartridge loaded to LR ballistics?

Kevin

smoothshooter said:

A better solution would be to make rifles with double firing pins located 180 degrees apart on the bolt face like what was done on the early lever-action Winchesters chambered for the .44 rim-fires.
It doubled the chances of the firing pin hitting and igniting some priming compound if it was not evenly distributed around the circumference of the cartridge rim.

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It would do better than that. Misfires are probably the results of small gaps in the primer compound. The odds of both firing pins hitting a gap would be the percentage of the rim without priming compound squared.

If you are getting one misfire for every 10 rounds fired it would go down to one round for every 100 rounds fired with a double firing pin. One misfire out of 20 would go down to one out of 400, etc.

Downsides would be some extra cost and to make sure both firing pins hit with enough force the already heavy DA trigger pull of a 22 revolver would have to be even heavier.

MTC(SS)Ret said:

Is it possible to get a bottle-necked cartridge such as a 22TCM to work in a revolver? Are there revolvers out there whose cylinder charge holes are bottle-neck shaped to align the bullet with the barrel?

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The .22 Jet has tapered charge holes.

I have no experience with them, but I recall reading the .22 Kay-Chuk (and the .22 Improved Jet) had a more traditional case profile, not as gradually tapered as the Jet, and had less setback with firing.

While its never as reliable as centerfire ammo the high end 22 LR ammo is reliable enough for anything I want to do with a 22. But almost all my 22 shooting is with CCI ammo of some sort and occasionally Federal automatch. Not as good as the high end stuff but more than reliable enough for what I use a 22 for. And still a lot less expensive than any centerfire cartridge. While it does have very low recoil and noise the main reason 22 LR is so popular is price.

In addition to requiring new guns and expensive niche ammo hunting small game with a new cartridge would require changes in hunting regulations in all the states I have lived in.

If the goal is a very low recoil revolver cartridge there is already the S&W 32 long which can be shot from any 32 H&R Magnum or 327 Federal revolver.

oldrookey617 said:

If 22LR is so popular, Why don't they make a 22LR Centerfire Cartridge ? and a nice S&W Revolver, and Rifle to go with it.. would that be a lot more dependable for small game hunting, If you like, self defense ? They sure make a lot of other's in centerfire.. Just something I'm throwing out there..

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Because thst round would be called something else other than 22lr, and it still would NOT be anywhere near as popular as 22lr. That round would require manufacturers to make new firearms chambered in that round to shoot it. That round would also cost more than 22lr especially since primers are involved. We already have more than enough options for dependable self-defense rounds, and there are more dependable 22lr rounds designed for self-defense and hunting already.

I think if you want the economy of reloadability with modest but useful ballistics in rifle or revolver, the 32 S&W fills the bill to a T

Sevens said:

Nothing wrong with the technical side of your idea but in reality, it will never work simply due to the untold gazillions of rimfire .22’s that already exist.

Much like Glock’s adventure with the .45 GAP cartridge. The idea was sound and it made sense but trying to replace something that’s been established and loved for 100 years and is still outrageously popular is nearly impossible.

It would be on the order of designing a brand new railroad train… engines and cars, all of which might be better than what’s used now but requires a set of train tracks that is 2-1/2 feet wider than what’s used now and since the 1800’s. You might have invented the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it has a snowball’s chance in hell of ever coming to life.

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Well said, I concur.

Last I saw pistol primers were about 8 cents/ round and 22 LR about 7 cents.

MTC(SS)Ret said:

Is it possible to get a bottle-necked cartridge such as a 22TCM to work in a revolver? Are there revolvers out there whose cylinder charge holes are bottle-neck shaped to align the bullet with the barrel?

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What about the recessed cylinder holes, like on my M-617 revolver, with the lip that's on the 22LR, will that hold the cartridge in place ? you will not need the bottle-neck cylinder holes..

The Main Thought is a 22LR cartridge, Centerfire, THE SAME SIZE, Not Bottle-Necked, can reload to suit your purposes, should be a lot of choices on the bullet sizes, and a Bonus, A Centerfire will have a lot nicer lighter trigger pull than a Rimfire for a Revolver, not my ball game, to old, but will be a light fast competition 22LR Revolver..

Everyones' Favorite 22 center fire

How about wonnerful 5.7 x 228 MM that is the hot rage in handguns? You just can't reload the brass.

murphydog said:

Let us not forget the currently available and somewhat popular .22 TCM, an Armscor product. Works well in a semi-auto pistol and could be adapted to a revolver with moon clips I would guess.

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Tried that by reaming a K22 cylinder with a 22TCM reamer, cut the cylinder for full moons and modified TKC K frame 9mm clips to hold them. Hard ejection and kind of scary as pressure is so high. My 22 Harvey Kay Chuck works well as does my 22 Jet both with clean dry chambers.

The 22CM is actually a 22 hornet case with the body turned down a bit.

But contrary to the belief of many bottle necked cartridges work fine in revolvers if kept to a more reasonable level than the old factory Remington loads. But I believe the super jet with a straight body and sharper neck would be better

How about this idea. Take 32 S&W long (or 32 H&R) brass and put a liner in them that had a .224 ID and a .312 OD, then press cast a 55 gr 224 bullet into it and ream a 22 cylinder so a 32S&W long would fit but leave the cylinder's throats at .224. Basically just really thick brass. If need be you could easily solder the liners in the parent cases. I do not think you would get bullet jump with such a light bullet at say 1200 fps. Even at a 900-1000fps they would have more umpf than a 40 gr from a revolver

you would need to find 5/16 (.3125) OD tubing with .044 walls

You could modify a 32 S&W long reamer by having it ground so it had a long .224 pilot. You could actually do that using a mill

22 center firef would make sense IF primers were still cheap

chief38 said:

Rimfire 22 LR ammo is probably the most popular in the world and basically that is because it is inexpensive compared to center fire cartridges. Even now RF ammo can be purchased for around a 6-7 cents each, thrown away after use and forgotten about. The primers on a CF bullet alone are more than that! Make RF ammo super expensive and you take away its major advantage.

While RF is not as reliable as CF is, they have now made it at least somewhat reliable or at least reliable to be used in all aspects of shooting sports. While some even use RF ammo in SD guns, (I would not) but if that is what they want, a revolver would make much more sense than a semi auto because if a round fails to fire, all that needs to be done is the trigger is pulled again. A SA would need to be cleared and cycled which would take too much time IMHO.

RF ammo is about perfect for those who need to dispatch pests and vermin, target shoot on paper, or use just for general plinking fun. Expensive primers that would require a different and more sturdy case design doesn't really make sense for RF ammo. As for CF "22's", the cartridge case has a larger diameter, has to be thicker and stronger. Not in the cards for what most 22's are actually used for and counter intuitive for what it is.

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22 LR WAS RELIABLE when I was growing up........I shot Winchester/Fderal/Remington.........I can't remember as single misfire........RF ammo like everything else is made CHEAP today with little to no QC.

murphydog said:

Let us not forget the currently available and somewhat popular .22 TCM, an Armscor product. Works well in a semi-auto pistol and could be adapted to a revolver with moon clips I would guess.

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Would it be like the wormy 5.7?

I have both the Jet and Kay chuck that work fine, just clean cylinders. No problemo.

Mike said:

Would it be like the wormy 5.7?

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The 5.7 is its own critter and the 22tcm uses 223 for parent brass

I chose to mess around with the TCM because you can get it in a 1911 clone which I have. I do not think one is better or worse, they are interesting as is the Jet and the Harvey

Having handloaded .25 ACP, I darned sure don't want to mess around loading anything smaller...

AlHunt said:

I give you the 22 Ladybug:

.22 ladybug - Saubier.com

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That is not based on the LR and is a custom one shot cartridge. He made those from Hornet cases then changed to .25 acp . Not the cartridge in question.

Since this a wish list cartridge/gun thread I will add mine. I would buy in a minute a quality, very lightweight, long and graceful, walnut and steel. rifle chambered in 32ACP. Having cronographed factory 32 ACP ammo from rifle barrels the velocities approximate 1,200 fps. I could not think of a better small game/ small varmint rifle. For me anyhow.