I recently got a 340 M&P. Love the new carry piece. It's great. Light. Does everything my 640 Pro does except tame recoil as much.

I decided to try some Underwood 38 Wadcutters. They've been billed as being a good round for the lightweights.

My opinion. Hated them.

Good bit of recoil, smokey as all get out at the range, not comfortable or "lighter" in recoil as I've read, and did I mention SMOKEY! I felt like it was an old western with gunsmoke everywhere.

Long and short, I'll stick to my usual Federal Hydrashok rounds I get. They work, they're accurate, and don't smoke up the range like it's a Roadhouse Honky Tonk.

Also, I didn't feel they were as accurate as my usual rounds.

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Hydra shock is an expensive practice round ?

Underwood and Buffalo Bore wadcutters are loaded so hot they defeat the purpose of standard wadcutters. Low powered and low recoil.

To clarify, not for practice, but for carry.

I've heard wadcutters can be good out of such short barrels for a SD load. Wanted to test it out. Didn't like them.

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Now that I've tried it, I'd agree.

It was meant for snubby carry for SD, but I did not like them. Oh well. Better round (for me) wins out. Little smoke and no smell is a bonus. I like the smell of burnt powder, but these Underwood didn't smell... pleasant.

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Go ahead... make my day.

Nice review and thank you for sharing.

Underwood is self defense ammo, not range plinkers.

Practice with regular stuff, defend with the good stuff.
Underwood is good stuff.

Underwood advertises their 150 grain wadcutter load as having a muzzle velocity of 1000 fps. It's definitely not target wadcutter 38 Special, but a full power load using a polymer coated, hard cast lead bullet.

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watched a new vid last night of a guy firing plus P 158 LHP loads(FED, REM) from a snub into gel. Well they penetrated enough but at best went from being a lead SWC HP to the nose flattening out to more resemble a WC, rather than expansion above caliber size. So he might as well have fired WC ammo. The tracks were also narrow as you would expect. But anything like that has to be better than LRN ammo.

And years ago I read a magazine article by a guy advocating for WC in snubs for SD due to the lack of expansion at that time, maybe late 80s timeframe. But his targets were styrofoam cups, a real challenge for a hard hitting load, Ha. Maybe it proved the accuracy factor which is a useful aspect.

If a HP doesn't expand, what did you really lose compared to a WC?

I thought the point of shooting WCs was to make a snubby a little easier on the hand. If you're going to hot-rod it, might as well shoot an expanding (maybe) bullet.

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Because of the metric system?

I thought the trick was to use HBWC backwards for SD use...

Get you some reloaded wadcutters from Precision Delta ammo. Great stuff. I keep it loaded up in my EDC 442 with a 5 round speed strip.

Yea the HBWC backwards is an interesting idea. I think I loaded some like that one time but do not recall shooting them. The problem with those might not be expansion but because of the thin skirt facing forward it might be unstable or break apart on impact. But I got no gelly to find out myself.

A lot of companies load wadcutter ammo with powders that just go "Bang" and let the bullet clear the barrel.

I only know of two companies that use minimum smoke powder and also light recoil.

Todays ammo is a lot different in these times.

Try some std velocity 148 wadcutters 700 fps, punch clean hole, hard to deflect, goes deep, doesn't need to expand.
It works as good today as it has for the last 100 yrs.
My .02

MagnumPI I find your tread knocking the underwood wadcutter load as smokey not as comfortable to shoot as the Federal Hydrashok a bit of a joke . haha
So lets see , a 150gr wadcutter at a higher rated velocity 1000fps while the Federal Hydrashokat a +P level with a 130gr bullet at 900fps .

The underwood load has the ammo spec on there page of the ammo your interested but to late now . You could also try federal 130gr hst micro 38SP ammo that may reach a little under 900fps and with a special design hst bullet works very well .

Also since you bought a 357mag snubby you might concider getting into loading your own ammo at least for practice using a single stage kit . I have 148gr wadcutters 357mag loads for fun at 700fps from a snubby . Best part is No crud buildup from shooting 38sp ammo in a 357mag cylinder .

Wadcutters are normally pretty mild. Try a different brand like Fiocchi for example. They are relatively cheap from Midway.

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S&WHF #946
S&WCA #3824

You may want to try the Lost River Ammo .38 Wadcutters.

The bullets polymer coated so there is little smoke. They come in both standard velocity and +P.

Bob

The Underwoods are a great choice, exactly what they advertise. Yes, they recoil. But a wadcutter cuts clean holes in the target and at 1000 FPS these are NOT target loads. Still they shoot good. For me, it is a lead semi wadcutter hollow point +P or a hot wadcutter load like this in a snubby .38 since velocity is low and expansion is iffy. They shoot just fine, but they are defense loads, not target loads. Shot this group yesterday...I will ride the river with Underwood.

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Colts like it too...vintage Colt Cobra. I like the snag free Smith above, but I shoot the Colt better, which I attribute to it being slightly larger and mostly to having WAY better sights than the Smith and Wesson Body Guard. Guess I need to get a factory shroud Cobra or Agent for those summer day, low risk pocket carry situations.

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I buy a lot of w/c's from Georgia Arms . They have what they label " New Ammunition" , because most of theirs is remanufactured . Their new is loaded in Starline brass , so if you reload you're really in luck . I've been using their reloads for close to 30 years , never a hiccup .

With all the good factory .38 loads, and bullets for reloading, available now days, don't think I'd bother with high velocity wadcutters. The lightly loaded factory target wadcutters are accurate and a real pleasure to shoot. There was a time when they were recommended for self defense in snubbys. Then loading hollow base wadcutters backwards for snubbys became a thing. I tried that. OK close up, but terrible accuracy much beyond halitosis distance.

BTW Magnum_PI, I was issued the Federal Hydra-shok 129 grain +P .38 Spcl. for years. I didn't get in any shootouts using that load. But I later noticed that the .38 Hydra-shok did not fare particularly well in the Luckygunner gel tests..

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This. My parents are 81 and can’t handle much, but they can manage my 148gr DEWC Tightgroup load.

148gr Acme DEWC
3.1gr Titegroup, 1.16” COAL, Remington SP

4” Trooper MkIII: 775fps
2” 10-9: 700fps

It’s a total pussycat in dad’s 6” 686 and mom’s 4” 65. Dad bought his 686 new 30 plus years ago. Mom’s 65 was purchased used from the EE of this board about the time I joined.

I know there’s a lot of “back and forth” on Luckygunners gel testing, but this load closely mimics the Winchester 148 HBWC they tested. I feel confident it will cut a full caliber hole past the 12 inches that the Feds recommend. I pray they’ll never have to use them, but at least they can.

My favorite WC round is Fiocchi. Why? Because simply it is so lightly loaded.
I'm 75 have arthritis in both hands, wrists and thumbs. The round is very accurate and with a light enough recoil that I can comfortably shoot it in a 442 pretty much as much as I want, I buy it by the case.

I shoot it in my LEOSA qualifications along with 8 speed strips. Even with WC's I'm really pretty good with the reload. 51 years of steady practice helps.

Thanks for posting this, I might try the Underwood for a carry load if I can find any. Smoke won't bother me under those circumstances. I've read that Winchester makes a fairly hot WC load. Not much available around here anyway which is another reason I buy by the case.

A 158 grain hard cast +p from Underwood is my favorite but only when hiking in black bear country. Black bears are not really prone to bother people and but since it does happen…..that load will work.
Supposedly goes through several feet of ballistic gel and as designed never expands!!!

Repeat - a while back now, my Buddy Milt had to shoot a Treed Bear several times.
He was shooting JHP 357 Silvertips.
They expended upon contact and he got almost no penetration.
Only time I ever ate Bear Meat. Cooked it Sauerbraten style.
Probably an acquired taste.

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I worked one homicide with a .38 Special wadcutter. A woman had reached her black-eye limit and shot shot her beefy abuser just once in the armpit. He said “oh”, sat down in his recliner, and began the process of assuming room temperature.

The medical examiner found that little lead soup can in the guy’s pelvic area. It had taken a tour through most of his vital organs before coming to rest, completely undeformed. You could have loaded it again.

The gun was a cheap RG snub and the round was a garden variety target load, nothing fancy.

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Rule of law, not a man.

I remember one homicide that was an Albanian retribution thing. Husband knows wife is cheating, hands her a 2" .38. Tells her you do him or I do you both. She does her lover in the head. It's a wadcutter that does a couple of laps around the skull cavity.

Yeah the recovered bullet has the beer can shape except the leading edge which was ground off doing the laps around inside the vic's head. Extremely effective.

This is my snub carry load,
gets 750 fps from a two inch penetrates 16 inches of 4 layered denim covered clear ballistics gel plus slightly expands.

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I use Underwood 150 grain Black Cherry hard cast wadcutters in my steel J frames and Georgia Arms Unlimate Defense 148 gr hard cast wadcutters in my Airweights. The Underwood’s have a little more bark than Georgia Arms. Both shoot point of aim and cut nice holes in paper. I reckon they will both do the intended job.

Pete950 and Lucnic, thanks for the heads up on the Georgia Arms Ultimate Defense wadcutter load. I'm a regular 442 carry guy and this sounds about perfect for my gun. I'll still stick with Fiocchi for practice and qualifying. I'm going to try three boxes to start with.

I shoot pretty regularly with other cops, deputies and special agents. They all have J frames. For some reason I'm the only one who carries and qualifies every year with mine.

Hot rodding wadcutters sounds like a solution looking for a problem.

That took a while.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

In New Jersey you can only use hollow points for home defense or hunting.
A hot .38 Special wadcutter would be a good option on the street there.

Drug out my old copy of Pistols - A Modern Encyclopedia by Stebbins. On pg 222, he mentions the full-charge wadcutter load at 870fps was discontinued due to lead-spitting in older guns with timing issues, less likely to happen with standard velocity WCs.

After decades of shooting, as to SHTF situations, I have learned not to disparage ANY load/round regardless of bullet weight and composition. They all hurt and/or worse.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

P.S. Don'cha just love ammo threads like this?

Just pickup a factory box of 148 gr wadcutter loads…my preference are the Remington variety.

(…if you reload, 3.5grs Bullseye under a 148 gr cast DEWC (NOT swaged HBWC) for a full wadcutter load. Nowadays, I use 3.3 grs W231 with the 148 gr DEWC…pretty much duplicates standard factory wadcutters. Reloads are great way to practice…just drop in the factory versions for the ride home (with applicable permit of course).

Loading and testing ones own loads is hard to beat. Casting projectiles allows one to get what they want. Lots of fun too.

I reloaded some 148 gr WC's that I had cast using a LEE mold . Seated them over 3.5 grs of Ramshot Zip and discovered a very very smooth easy shooting load in my 442 snubby . If struggling with recoil ,arthritis etc , in your J-frame , give this one a try . Regards Paul

If the Underwood are poly-coated I don't know why they would smoke that much? Back before powder coating I used a soft sticky lube on my cast bullets and that stuff smoked like black powder. You had to wait a few seconds for the smoke to clear so you could see the target.

I wonder what powder they use.

I took the plunge and purchased 5 boxes of the Underwood 38spl 150gr. wadcutters. My plan is CCW them in my S&W Model 442 & 2nd Gen (1966) Colt Detective Special. They arrive tomorrow, and I'll go to range Friday for a FAM fire. I'll report back my thoughts.

These threads will never end. The obsessive and aspiring Internet gunfighters wouldn't permit such a thing.

My order of .38spl Underwood 150gr wadcutter ammo arrived. Went to range in 26 temperatures and windy. I shot it with no issues in my S&W Mod 442 Airweight. Accuracy at 7yds was good enough for me thanks to the temperature and 100% reliable. Revolver recoil was more than acceptable compared to some +P loads I've fired in past. A good push and ammo casing dropped out of cylinder with no issues. I currently have it loaded in my 442 for daily CCW carry.

For my light J frame snub nose I load X-lite target loads with a 148gr HBwc
for a lot of rounds to be shot, that day.

My Bullseye loads are doing 630fps with a recoil factor of 2.61 ft/lbs.
My heavy Red Dot load does 775fps with a recoil factor of 3.99 ft/lbs.
out of the short 1 7/8" barrel.

Can't beat a keyhole for a wound channel

"Out of short barrels either 38 will penetrate OR expand, but not both.
If it does both, it will probably kick like it does both!"

Silvertips are horrible hunting bullets for this very reason.

True. I carry any wadcutter in my 442 but mostly s&b or magtech, practice with the same and all that. Not bad, not too smoky as far as I can tell. Shoots to POA at defensive distantec (5-7 yards). Backup with Hornady Critical defense in a speed strip because it is easier to reload with the pointed tip; that shoots almost identically just a little noisier. Not much difference in recoil.

Once, when I first got a model 19, I decided to load the HBWC backwards. Some made nice, round holes...but more were oval and a few rectangular. Of course, iirc, I was shooting them at 25 yards. Closer, sideways might do the job, but I decided not for me. YMMV!

Back in September I thanked Pete 950 and Lucnic for their recommendation on Georgia Arms 148 gr. WC, Ultimate Defense. This load is brewed for Airweight J frames and those of that ilk.

Back to say I've tested them out and like them enough that it's my regular carry load. I still use Fiocchi wads for practice and qualification.

And yes, I'm a geezer who carried hot wadcutters back in the day. They go where I want them to go, and do what I expect. A very nice load.