National Parks Laws

Hey folks, my wife... god love her... was telling me the other day that President Obama signed a law that reverses the no firearms in National Parks law. I told her she was crazy, but she insists its true. Anyone out there hear something similar or confirm this for certain?

He signed it but the law does not go into effect for almost a year. Feb of 2010. This way all the Congressmen can claim they passed pro Constitution legislation during the November election, yet still have plenty time for another Democrat appointed judge to to block implementation.

I see... We'll that's disappointing, I'll pass that along. Thank you for the reply.

Although your question has been accurately answered, since you asked it, I assume it's an issue of concern, so, here's how I dealt with the weapons prohibition during a recent trip to Death Valley...

Got a small Gun Vault and attached it to my truck seat frame with the optional factory security cable. Into the Gun Vault went a Glock, broken down into separate components: frame, slide assembly with barrel in place, 10 round (California legal) magazines. Thus, the gun was disassembled, unloaded, legal, and capable of being restored to functionality in the few moments necessary to manipulate the Gun Vault keypad, fit slide to frame, insert mag, rack slide. Not fast enough for some circumstances, to be sure, but way better than having no gun at hand.

I have visited numerous sites under the jurisdiction of NPS with the weapons ban in place, and have yet to be challenged, searched, or etc. A few years ago, in what has been named to be one of the most dangerous NPS sites, Organ Pipe Cactus National Monument, on the Mexican border, I waved down a ranger to report another party in distress. I was, to any reasonably trained eye, "packing", as was my companion, but this was ignored or at least unmentioned. The ranger was wearing a semiauto handgun with numerous hi-cap mags, and had an 870 and an M16/AR something or other in a Big Sky rack in his truck --- certainly one of the most heavily armed park rangers I've ever encountered. About two weeks later, he or one of his coworkers was killed in a gunfight with Mexican smugglers.

Just because the NPS tries to turn nature into Disneyland, don't forfeit your self-defense options...

I believe there's some misunderstanding of the law by some. They aren't reading the law. The law does not allow blanket concealed carry in national parks. What the law allows is concealed carry in national parks in those states which have concealed carry laws and which the carrier is in compliance with concealed carry for that state.
For example, let's take Yosemite National Park in California. If you have a CCW license to carry in CA then you will be able to carry in YNP. If you do not have a CCW license valid in CA then you can't carry in YNP.
Another example would be in a state like IL or WI which has no CCW. Since there is no CCW in the state then a person could not CCW in any national parks in those states.
If a person does not have a CCW in any state then they would not be able to CCW in the national park.
Where a person might get into trouble is in a national park that is in more than one state. I don't know what the CCW reciprocity is for WY, MT, and ID but let's use Yellowstone for example since Yellowstone is in 3 states. Let's assume for the discussion WY does not honor the CCW license from ID and MT. You have a valid CCW in ID. You could carry in that part of Yellowstone that is in ID but not the part of Yellowstone in WY.
To carry in the national park a person will have to be legal to carry in the state in which the national park is located. The law does not grant blanket CCW in national parks.

Howdy ispcap ,Very good point .

Chipmunk6

Right now you CANNOT carry in a National park. Last year you could, and there were no problems. However, now you can't because a judge has put the whole thing on hold while they do a study. Go to the N.R.A. website and they can explain it better. While your there, consider joining!

Dueeast said:

Right now you CANNOT carry in a National park. Last year you could, and there were no problems. However, now you can't because a judge has put the whole thing on hold while they do a study. Go to the N.R.A. website and they can explain it better. While your there, consider joining!

Click to expand...

I believe starting in February 2010, CCW will be permited if you have a valid CCW permit for that state. Congress included that addition to the credit card bill that passed about a month ago. You are correct, CCW is not permited until that law goes into effect.

Anyone that would step foot into one of our National Parks without a weapon needs to have their head examined. Law or no law.

Too bad they didn't include open carry, which would have been legal in many states,
including CA as the NPs are in rural areas. There will be many nuances of this to be
explained. For instance, CA law permits anybody (no permit required) to have a loaded
handgun in any place that is their domicile, even temporary, where they will spend the night, including tents, hotel rooms, and a court case even upheld it for a phone booth...
Also, the first offense for unlicensed CCW in CA is a misdemeanor (the legislators left
themselves an out in case they got caught, I guess), FYI.

Agree w/ the idea that one would be nuts to go hiking through a NP unprotected.
It seems that there has been a "don't ask, don't tell" policy as described above for
folks that are well behaved. If not, then the gun will make things a lot worse for them.

Unless I'm missing something...

...it doesn't say anything about 'concealed carry only'. It says ... 'in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.'

Thus, both concealed AND open carry should be OK if both are legal in a given state.


SEC. 512. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.

(a) Congressional Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that ‘the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed’.
(2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that ‘except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net’.
(3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the United States may not ‘possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges’ of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3) prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while at units of--

(A) the National Park System; and
(B) the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(5) The existence of different laws relating to the transportation and possession of firearms at different units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.
(6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009--

(A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary injunction with respect to the implementation and enforcement of the new regulations; and
(B) the new regulations--

(i) are under review by the administration; and
(ii) may be altered.
(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.
(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.
(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and
(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

I'm buying into NVgunners answer. President Bush, during the close of his administration, enacted an executive order allowing CCW in national parks. Some dirty liberal (the only kind) found a friendly to them judge to overturn it. So the Democratic controlled legislature, both house and senate, passed the law he outlined. Its not an executive order, not a regulation, its now a law. The problem is when it goes into effect.

The way I understand it, that would be 90 days after the end of the current session ends. And that puts it sometime in late February, 2010. So the law does the opposite of what the OP's wife suggested. In most states it make it legal for us to carry.

As for parks that span more than one state, like our Cumberland Gap NP, it could possibly create a problem. But as always, if your gun is concealed, no one will know. If you must use it legitimately to save your life, or the life of your family, the law is the least of your problems.

rburg said:

So the Democratic controlled legislature, both house and senate, passed the law he outlined. Its not an executive order, not a regulation, its now a law. The problem is when it goes into effect.

The way I understand it, that would be 90 days after the end of the current session ends. And that puts it sometime in late February, 2010. So the law does the opposite of what the OP's wife suggested. In most states it make it legal for us to carry.

Click to expand...

It was an ammendment to the credit card bill. It was signed into law by thr President and goes into effect 9 months after it was signed.

That will be February 21, 2010 unless something happens to change it.

Ken

"(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located. "

And that is the important part that some people are missing.
At a meeting the other night a person inquired how he could legally carry to Lincoln's Home which is part of the NP from the visitor's center while crossing the street which is not part of the NP. The simple answer is "you can't." Why? Because it's illegal to carry a firearm in IL. His response was "But the new federal law says it's legal to carry in national parks." He had only read or heard "It will be legal to carry in national parks" and hadn't bothered to know what the law actually said.

"I don't know what the CCW reciprocity is for WY, MT, and ID"

ID, UT, MT, AZ, WY, CO permit is the same for all. In other words a permit from one of those states is good in all. They may be more, but that is my neighborhood.

I recommend the following site for more info.

Carry Concealed