Brandishing and Threatening to pull a weapon

Bill_Johnson

Bill_Johnson

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I have been bothered by two types of scenarios, neither of which I have had occurred thankfully. I know a number of LEO read this, so I will be anxious for their thoughts. BTW, I hold a valid CCW from Ohio.

I understand this probably doesn’t have a black and white, simple answer, but let me throw out two scenarios.

1) A guy approaches me on the street in a way I am uncomfortable. His appearance, speed of approaching, look in his eyes, mannerism, all make me feel threatened. I do not see a weapon, but he is in his 20’s, and I am in my 60’s. I step back, pull my gun and yell “Get away from me!”. He takes off after I do this. I call the police.

2) Same scenario EXCEPT I step back, reach back and put my hand on my gun (and not display or draw it) and yell “Get away from me!”. He takes off after I do this. I call the police.

I figure I need to call the police in both scenarios as he may (or some “witness” may call). I want to get my story told first. My concern is, am I opening a can of worms by calling? Perhaps setting myself up for being arrested when I am not the bad guy?! In #1, I suppose I could be charged and arrested with assault for drawing. In #2, possibly the same thing (Even though I didn’t draw, the bad guy will perhaps say I did if he too called the police!).

In #2, I am thinking perhaps NOT calling police as I did not draw and the situation was ended. Besides, the aggressor doesn’t know who I am to report on.

Words of wisdom anyone? I realize different states have different laws, and because of that, there likely isn’t one easy, pat set of answers for these questions.
 
First, I do not believe your "use" of a gun is warranted in either scenario you presented.

Certainly, brandishing it is NOT appropriate. :mad:

That said, if you do either, I recommend you advise the local authorities.

As an aside, I have previously related that every one of my gun "use" incidents has involved law enforcement personnel. When working as a LEO, we were mandated to report any removal of our gun from its holster. "Display Only" could be reported over the radio; any other "use" had to be documented in a written report.

As an armed citizen, I have notified the locals during or immediately following the "use."

Hope this is useful to you.

Be safe.
 
If in the above situations, and getting the spidey senses tingling, i would have gotten my pistol in my hand and kept it concealed along my leg. Rather than shouting in a confrontational manner at him, I would have maintained eye contact while distancing myself (probably diagonally) from him. If he had continued to close with me, then a stern command to "STOP LEAVE ME ALONE". If he does not close, situation averted. If he continues to close, yes, notify the Police. (their probably going to need ambulances, coroners and the folks from CSI).
 
Scenario #1 sounds like you could be charged with something akin to menacing, depending on how close the other person was to you.

Scenario #2 sounds a bit more reasonable, as you have not drawn, but simply gone into a heightened alert mode based upon a possible altercation.

In either case, you are not warranted to draw unless you can definitively say you felt your life to be in imminent danger. Waving a pistol around as a scare tactic or form of intimidation is foolhardy as best, a death wish at worst.

LEO can better inform you about notification.
 
I agree w/BigD, you are not justified in either case you present here. Your best option is to get the gun in hand and hold it so it cannot be seen unless needed (I did the against my leg thing as an officer in full uniform and the person never knew it). As to when to call LE, always call right away and get your story on file first.
 
Old cop said:
I agree w/BigD, you are not justified in either case you present here. Your best option is to get the gun in hand and hold it so it cannot be seen unless needed ...
Click to expand...

What's the difference between getting gun in hand and hiding it and the OP's scenario #2 where he just puts his hand on the gun that is not visible? If the former is "best option", then why not the latter also?

Perhaps a better option is to also carry pepper spray, have it at the ready and do your best to avoid further confrontation.
 
Last edited:
Bill_Johnson said:
I have been bothered by two types of scenarios, neither of which I have had occurred thankfully. I know a number of LEO read this, so I will be anxious for their thoughts. BTW, I hold a valid CCW from Ohio.

I understand this probably doesn’t have a black and white, simple answer, but let me throw out two scenarios.

1) A guy approaches me on the street in a way I am uncomfortable. His appearance, speed of approaching, look in his eyes, mannerism, all make me feel threatened. I do not see a weapon, but he is in his 20’s, and I am in my 60’s. I step back, pull my gun and yell “Get away from me!”. He takes off after I do this. I call the police.

2) Same scenario EXCEPT I step back, reach back and put my hand on my gun (and not display or draw it) and yell “Get away from me!”. He takes off after I do this. I call the police.

I figure I need to call the police in both scenarios as he may (or some “witness” may call). I want to get my story told first. My concern is, am I opening a can of worms by calling? Perhaps setting myself up for being arrested when I am not the bad guy?! In #1, I suppose I could be charged and arrested with assault for drawing. In #2, possibly the same thing (Even though I didn’t draw, the bad guy will perhaps say I did if he too called the police!).

In #2, I am thinking perhaps NOT calling police as I did not draw and the situation was ended. Besides, the aggressor doesn’t know who I am to report on.

Words of wisdom anyone? I realize different states have different laws, and because of that, there likely isn’t one easy, pat set of answers for these questions.
Click to expand...

...first thing I would do is cross the street without turning your back to him...diagonally as in a prior post. If he crosses and continues toward you...then I'd go with number two on your list. Do not draw and/or aim unless you're going to shoot. A felony menacing conviction will probably get YOU disarmed permanently...
 
Bill....What is Ohio law on the subject? Here in Arizona the question is answered for us in: Format Document

As you posted all States are different in one way or another. I don't necessarily agree that showing a firearm is a good idea, I've never had to it, but being a 60 something year old with breathing problems I'm not going to run if I don't have to.
My best advise....know your state laws and abide by them.
 
First, in Ohio you would have a Concealed Handgun License(CHL) not a CCW. You would be in the wrong in both scenarios unless the person approaching you actually threatened you. Looking threatening isn't a crime. Any incident involving a firearm, no matter what the situation should be reported to the police. Better to hear your side first. Check out Ohioians for concealed carry forum. It's very informative. Good luck.
 
In this state, because some person is "placed in fear of serious injury involving a dangerous instrument", or worse, a "deadly weapon", either scenario could result in a felony charge. A claim of self defense is, at best, an affirmetive defense. You'll probably survive, but it'll be a major and expensive hassle. Some folks up here avoid the possibility by openly carrying their gun. In Alaska, as long as you're old enough, and can legally own a gun, you can carry it openly or concealed, without a permit. That might sound cool, but it doesn't solve the problems that you've described. That's a tough call, either way.
 
You might need to have a weapon surgically removed after yelling, "stop or I'll shoot" if you don't really mean it. The person may run the other way or it may significantly escalate the situation.

I believe that if I need to display a weapon something is going to get shot. I may yell and I may take evasive action, but if I feel my life is in danger then the decision is made. I'll worry about the rules later when I have the luxury of time.
 
Buy yourself a Kimber Pepper Blaster, you'd be Ok palming that, as it can't be seen, crossing the street, warning them and using it if it escalated from there, saving the gun, if needed to match lethal force.

JMO
 
I don’t know what Ohio law is so I won’t speculate. Under Texas law, whenever you point any weapon at another person, you are brandishing a weapon. If you brandish a weapon, even in self-defense, you may find yourself facing assault charges.

Pulling a firearm on someone without firing it suggests that the gun was not necessary and that you did not fear for your life, because if you had you would have pulled the trigger. Fighting an aggravated assault charge with the self-defense doctrine can therefore be a difficult argument to make in court.
 
I think you'd be in hot water either way.

But, a lot depends on other factors. What time it is? Where are you? Other people around? How did he get to your side of the street?

Articulation is everything.

If you could articulate that you were walking alone, in a known crime neighborhood, and the other guy was originally walking on the other side of the road, then crossed to your side when he noticed you, and was walking towards you with fists clenched, then MAYBE you could skate your way out of it.

Yelling at someone to get back and drawing a gun on them simply because they look intimidating, with no threat made or even words spoken between you, will get you jail time.
 
CO_Kid said:
I think you'd be in hot water either way.

But, a lot depends on other factors. What time it is? Where are you? Other people around? How did he get to your side of the street?

Articulation is everything.

If you could articulate that you were walking alone, in a known crime neighborhood, and the other guy was originally walking on the other side of the road, then crossed to your side when he noticed you, and was walking towards you with fists clenched, then MAYBE you could skate your way out of it.

Yelling at someone to get back and drawing a gun on them simply because they look intimidating, with no threat made or even words spoken between you, will get you jail time.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's maybe. The LEO assumptions made because of your walking alone in a known high crime area unless you live around the block would start you in a hole before you starting articulating. I know I'd assume you were there for the corner trades.....
 
StatesRightist said:
I don't think it's maybe. The LEO assumptions made because of your walking alone in a known high crime area unless you live around the block would start you in a hole before you starting articulating. I know I'd assume you were there for the corner trades.....
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a thin maybe at best.

But in the sector I work, we do have the occaisional "old" neighborhood that are full of seniors who moved there before the ghetto grew up around them. I do see the occaisional one walking to 7-11 for milk after dark. So while rare, and not smart, it could happen.
 
CO_Kid said:
Yeah, it's a thin maybe at best.

But in the sector I work, we do have the occaisional "old" neighborhood that are full of seniors who moved there before the ghetto grew up around them. I do see the occaisional one walking to 7-11 for milk after dark. So while rare, and not smart, it could happen.
Click to expand...

That's a viable exception, you are right. Man I always feel sorry for those seniors, no way to sell, can't defend themselves very well, after a life of hard work...sucks, does not cover it.
 
I think these scenarios are the basic plus of a J-Frame revolver in the pocket. One can put one hand in the pocket, grip the revolver, but not draw it. With gun in hand, one might be able to deal with the situation with more civilty, and more camly.
 
Thanks to all who responded to my original post. I know my simple, outlined scenarios leave a lot of room for other variables not considered. All in all though, many good respectful comments. I appreciate that.
 
What if he didn't take off and just kept walking toward you? Indeed what if he even bumped you with his shoulder?
 
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