Fading loyalty to Smith and Wesson
- Thread starter Mr. Vito
- Start date
I gave up on J-frames many years ago. I just can't shoot them well at all, and to be honest, I don't like shooting them enough to get proficient with them. I do have a Taurus 327 CH in 327 Federal Magnum that I like, but not in 327 FM. I might as well be shooting a hot 38 as that fire breather. Step it back to 32 H&R, or 32 Long, and it's a different critter.
But for day to day carry I've gone full geezer and adopted a 380 EZ. It's everything the name says. EZ to load, rack, shoot, and carry. I've got a BG-2 that I love the size of. I just can't shoot the gun. It's just too small. The EZ is an "in-between" size. Bigger than a little gun not as big (and heavy) as even the next size EZ's. The 380 has little to no recoil really so at the end of a range session my hand isn't tingling for a couple of days and I can hit what I'm shooting at. With 9 in the gun, and 8 more in a spare magazine it's like I have a revolver with two reloads plus a couple extra.
Bonus points: it is still a S&W.
But for day to day carry I've gone full geezer and adopted a 380 EZ. It's everything the name says. EZ to load, rack, shoot, and carry. I've got a BG-2 that I love the size of. I just can't shoot the gun. It's just too small. The EZ is an "in-between" size. Bigger than a little gun not as big (and heavy) as even the next size EZ's. The 380 has little to no recoil really so at the end of a range session my hand isn't tingling for a couple of days and I can hit what I'm shooting at. With 9 in the gun, and 8 more in a spare magazine it's like I have a revolver with two reloads plus a couple extra.
Bonus points: it is still a S&W.
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So mr.vito swears off all the s&w brand firearms because of arthritis and a J frame hurting his hand !
Guess it has taken him almost 11 years of owning and carrying a s&w 642 for - A REASON TO BAD MOUTH S&W BRAND AS A WHOLE?
Hey vito, If you have arthritis you have a problems thats not going to get better with time . But it seems easier for you to blame S&W as a whole instead of your own medical problems being the real issue here ?? But it has taken you almost 11 years to decide you now HATE S&W IN GENERAL or is it just your 14oz J frame now that you can no longer control well enough to continue to carry ?
You can feel good about your gluck 26 being your ideal pocket carry for now but when you find it to is no longer your ideal pocket carry pistol maybe in a year or two are you going to tell every one on some glock forum hate all glocks too ?
Guess it has taken him almost 11 years of owning and carrying a s&w 642 for - A REASON TO BAD MOUTH S&W BRAND AS A WHOLE?
Hey vito, If you have arthritis you have a problems thats not going to get better with time . But it seems easier for you to blame S&W as a whole instead of your own medical problems being the real issue here ?? But it has taken you almost 11 years to decide you now HATE S&W IN GENERAL or is it just your 14oz J frame now that you can no longer control well enough to continue to carry ?
You can feel good about your gluck 26 being your ideal pocket carry for now but when you find it to is no longer your ideal pocket carry pistol maybe in a year or two are you going to tell every one on some glock forum hate all glocks too ?
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I "retired' my M60-7 as well as all other revolvers from EDC duty about 6 years ago. After firing my friend's then new Sig P365, I could no longer deny or ignore all the benefits over a 5 or 6 shot revolver. It holds 10+1 and actually 12+ 1 or up to 17+1 with longer mag's with about half the felt recoil of a J-frame loaded with P's. Not only is the felt recoil about half as much, there is absolutely no discomfort at all when firing it. I can shoot 200 rounds at a practice session with no pain or soreness afterwards. I carry 124 grain Federal std. vel. HST JHP ammo (about $25 bucks per box of 50 rounds) which IMHO is the best 9mm carry load for a short barreled (3.1") pistol. The GDHP 124 grain or Sig "V" series is also very good.
Not only is the onboard capacity more than double of a J Frame, the accuracy with its excellent night sights is way better and easier to aim and hit with and follow up shots are faster too. The P365 is also lighter, smaller and easier to carry in a pocket, on the hip or IWB and way faster and easier to reload if needed. I have the model with the external safety and I have no fears about always carrying it with a live round in he chamber. There are 2 other internal safeties as well.
For over 40 years I was a dyed in the wool revolver man and I still do shoot them often (mostly K's) - but no longer would consider using one as a primary EDC gun (with the exception of a .357 Magnum in the woods for protection against 4 legged animals. I also much prefer 9mm ammo over .38 special as I truly believe it is more potent with better expansion, higher velocity, more readily available and at half the price. Practice ammo is just above $10 a box of 50 and these days it is actually cheaper to use factory ammo than to reload it yourself! I like the Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ which shoots to the same POA as the HST's of the same weight do. I thing I paid about $11.50 / box of 50 rounds but now they can be had even less when they run a sale and purchased by the case - delivered to your doorstep!
With well over 7,000 rounds through mine and zero hang ups, I have full faith in its dependability and reliability to work if and when it is ever needed (hopefully never). So my J Frames (I have a bunch of them) still hold a place in my heart and in my safe, but no longer get the nod as an EDC. I believe that with blatant violent crime being committed more now days than ever before by Gangs and people who have no value of human life, 5 rounds in a harder to shoot self defense gun no longer makes sense - at least for me.
Not only is the onboard capacity more than double of a J Frame, the accuracy with its excellent night sights is way better and easier to aim and hit with and follow up shots are faster too. The P365 is also lighter, smaller and easier to carry in a pocket, on the hip or IWB and way faster and easier to reload if needed. I have the model with the external safety and I have no fears about always carrying it with a live round in he chamber. There are 2 other internal safeties as well.
For over 40 years I was a dyed in the wool revolver man and I still do shoot them often (mostly K's) - but no longer would consider using one as a primary EDC gun (with the exception of a .357 Magnum in the woods for protection against 4 legged animals. I also much prefer 9mm ammo over .38 special as I truly believe it is more potent with better expansion, higher velocity, more readily available and at half the price. Practice ammo is just above $10 a box of 50 and these days it is actually cheaper to use factory ammo than to reload it yourself! I like the Federal American Eagle 124 grain FMJ which shoots to the same POA as the HST's of the same weight do. I thing I paid about $11.50 / box of 50 rounds but now they can be had even less when they run a sale and purchased by the case - delivered to your doorstep!
With well over 7,000 rounds through mine and zero hang ups, I have full faith in its dependability and reliability to work if and when it is ever needed (hopefully never). So my J Frames (I have a bunch of them) still hold a place in my heart and in my safe, but no longer get the nod as an EDC. I believe that with blatant violent crime being committed more now days than ever before by Gangs and people who have no value of human life, 5 rounds in a harder to shoot self defense gun no longer makes sense - at least for me.
AJ
US Veteran
I think some folks are loosing sight about the J Frames. These were not meant to be target pieces. These are mainly used as an offensive or defensive weapon. Extended periods at the range are not a thing of fun. A two or three or less inch barrel is for close up work. I call them "Belly Guns" to be used at those ranges.
I agree. I did the same. No more bloody thumb from my scandium j frame.
You might want to reread Mr. Vito's post. No where within the post does he blame S&W, in fact he states it was NOT their fault. Nor is there any reference to hating all S&W products. Instead, he is merely parroting what many elderly persons before him have stated. The J frame can be painful to shoot with arthritic hands.
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Just a tip from an old shooter that has terrible arthritis in my hands and especially in my wrists.
My Rheumatologist has me do extensive hand exercises nightly. This seems counterproductive 'cause it hurts like the devil, but it is working wonders with my shooting.
I shoot and compete with heavy pistols, primarily a SIG P210, Dan Wesson 1911 and a Walther Q 5 Steel Frame. The weight helps reduce the sting and post-shooting pain.
I only use a J Frame as a back-up pistol. However, I can and do shoot them still and shoot them well. They hurt, but it is what it is.
Shooting still puts a smile on my face. I'm gonna bear through it as long as I can. By God's Grace!
,
My Rheumatologist has me do extensive hand exercises nightly. This seems counterproductive 'cause it hurts like the devil, but it is working wonders with my shooting.
I shoot and compete with heavy pistols, primarily a SIG P210, Dan Wesson 1911 and a Walther Q 5 Steel Frame. The weight helps reduce the sting and post-shooting pain.
I only use a J Frame as a back-up pistol. However, I can and do shoot them still and shoot them well. They hurt, but it is what it is.
Shooting still puts a smile on my face. I'm gonna bear through it as long as I can. By God's Grace!
,
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
What ammunition you are shooting? It might be time to switch to Match Wadcutters at 700 fps. JMHO
SGT ROCK 11B
Member
Does your Rheumatologist have you take weekly injections of Humira? Plus weekly doses of Methotrexate?
A vote for the current UC 432s.
Nope. Mine is not cancer or an autoimmune type. At least not yet.
Mine is from severe damage from impacts and abusive use possibly combined with a prescription I was taking. Medically unprovable.
,
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smithman 10
US Veteran
The J-frame is a belly gun, pure and simple
J-frame revolvers are not target guns. Any expectation of shooting tight groups at distances more than 5-7 yards is unrealistic IMHO. These revolvers are only suitable for short range self defense.
If airweight J-frames are too punishing, try switching to a steel frame J-frame revolver and using standard pressure loads rather than +P.
Steel frame guns ARE more costly but the 4 extra ounces does make a difference. And as others have mentioned, finding a more comfortable grip (stock) can make a big difference.
J-frame revolvers are not target guns. Any expectation of shooting tight groups at distances more than 5-7 yards is unrealistic IMHO. These revolvers are only suitable for short range self defense.
If airweight J-frames are too punishing, try switching to a steel frame J-frame revolver and using standard pressure loads rather than +P.
Steel frame guns ARE more costly but the 4 extra ounces does make a difference. And as others have mentioned, finding a more comfortable grip (stock) can make a big difference.
Marshal Tom
Member
I can shoot almost everything pretty well but I am just not as accurate with my J's as other choices I have. I sold my M&P 340 and obtained a 649ND and it is much nicer to shoot. I recently purchased a 432UC and that thing is sweet. I carry them on short trips to town and around the property some but much more often I am packing one of my striker fired guns these days with much higher capacity and easier to shoot well.I have several S&W revolvers but just don't carry them much these days.
I'm fortunate at 73 not to have problems with arthritis. My eyesight's nothing to write home about. I'm still able to shoot J frames decently, though not as well as when I was younger.
I have two J frames I carry, an M49 and a 642-2. My carry ammo in the 642-2 is Speer's 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel and in the M49 it's Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutters. I'd love to use wadcutters in the 642 but it's regulated for 125-135-grain ammo and the wadcutters hit above POA.
I've done two snubby classes in the past year, both with 200-250 rounds in a day, the first with my 642-2 and the second with the M49. Ammo used was my handloads - 125-grain plated FNs at ~825 fps from the 642 and wadcutters at ~700 fps from the M49. My hands certainly knew I'd put a lot of rounds through the snubbies, but they didn't hurt. I used the same grips on both - Hogue Monogrips. I got them because I need the extra distance to the trigger to get a good double-action trigger stroke, and the cushioning is lagniappe but useful.
I really think that having your hand properly positioned on the grip frame is essential in preventing hand pain. For guys with normal-size hands, an exposed back strap on a J frame means unnecessary pain, even though it looks cool and conceals a little better.
I disagree with folks who insist that J frames are close-range only guns. Mine obviously can't hang with my M14-2 and -3, but keeping rounds in the black of a B8 target to ten yards is well within their wheelhouse, even with my geezer eyes.
I have two J frames I carry, an M49 and a 642-2. My carry ammo in the 642-2 is Speer's 135-grain Gold Dot Short Barrel and in the M49 it's Federal Gold Medal Match wadcutters. I'd love to use wadcutters in the 642 but it's regulated for 125-135-grain ammo and the wadcutters hit above POA.
I've done two snubby classes in the past year, both with 200-250 rounds in a day, the first with my 642-2 and the second with the M49. Ammo used was my handloads - 125-grain plated FNs at ~825 fps from the 642 and wadcutters at ~700 fps from the M49. My hands certainly knew I'd put a lot of rounds through the snubbies, but they didn't hurt. I used the same grips on both - Hogue Monogrips. I got them because I need the extra distance to the trigger to get a good double-action trigger stroke, and the cushioning is lagniappe but useful.
I really think that having your hand properly positioned on the grip frame is essential in preventing hand pain. For guys with normal-size hands, an exposed back strap on a J frame means unnecessary pain, even though it looks cool and conceals a little better.I disagree with folks who insist that J frames are close-range only guns. Mine obviously can't hang with my M14-2 and -3, but keeping rounds in the black of a B8 target to ten yards is well within their wheelhouse, even with my geezer eyes.
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That sums it up for me too. Although I do not suffer from arthritis, it is SIG P365 or Glock 42, 43X, or 19 for carry.
No more revolvers, except for fun at the range.
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