my response to "no guns allowed" sign

blujax01 said:

So you ignore the posted hours on the door, too?

"CLOSED"??? Not the law, just a preference...

I could continue to point out how wrong you are but it would be useless.

Click to expand...

Sir, I'm sorry but this conversation is over.

You protect yourself your way and I'll do it my way.

When tresspassing is outlawed,
Only outlaws will tresspass.


Sgt Lumpy

Lost Lake said:

Thats the way I understand it also.

If a sign is posted and you carry anyway, you are breaking the law and are subject to a $200 fine.

I've been taking my chances and carrying anyway. I can afford a $200 fine. I can't afford to be defenseless because some idiot posted a sign.

.

Click to expand...

The problem with this logic is that you're also risking your license.

Rastoff said:

The problem with this logic is that you're also risking your license.

Click to expand...

I don't believe so, but maybe you're right. I know it's just a misdemeanor fine of $200. If there are further repercussions I have not read them.

While I try to avoid places that restrict my right to exercise my freedom, I won't hesitate to carry if I determine it necessary.

Good point Rastoff, I will look into it!!

.

I don't know the fine points in WI, but here in CA they can pull your license for any reason. Do you think they will issue a license to someone who has demonstrated that they are willing to ignore a simple request? Wouldn't that make them wonder what other "rules" you'd be willing to ignore?

Me? I choose to respect other's wishes and expect reciprocation.

Road Rat said:

NOPE. The hardware store is open to the public. The farmers land is totally private. Apples and oranges!!

As long as the signs NO GUNS has no legal bearing and I keep my CCW concealed it is no ones business. Just the lawyers trying to do good.................and failing.

Click to expand...

^^^^^^+1 There it is!

Rastoff said:

I don't know the fine points in WI, but here in CA they can pull your license for any reason. Do you think they will issue a license to someone who has demonstrated that they are willing to ignore a simple request? Wouldn't that make them wonder what other "rules" you'd be willing to ignore?

Me? I choose to respect other's wishes and expect reciprocation.

Click to expand...

Yet ANOTHER reason not to live in California!

islamoradamark said:

number 2 that sign dont mean nothing u got rights

Click to expand...

The sign does mean something in the state of Washington (although I have not seen a lot of those signs, which I will tell about in another post here). In the state of Washington a business is considered "owner" of the property if they lease/rent, process of purchasing or have purchased the property. Therefore, it is considered "private property" even though they are providing a public service/service to the public.

If caught carrying, open or concealed at a facility that is "clearly" posted no weapons allowed, you will loose your right to ever again have a CPL. You do not have to be convicted of said charge, only to have formal charges brought against you (not an investigation) but formal charges.

Two things... First, this applies to ALL people carrying weapons, get this, it includes: criminals, you, me, the general public and LAW ENFORCEMENT.
Second, exemptions for LE to enter carrying a weapon: called to facility by owner or representative of owner or in the case of an emergency.

In other words, if LE is on their own time or lunch hour, etc. they can not carry on to said property.

Just before New Years, Mrs. Chillock and I took our son (home on leave, about to head back) and a few of his friends out to lunch.
We found out later, there is a no weapons sign at the register to the left of where you stand waiting to be seated.

There was 8 of us. We were shown to our table, as the host came to offer drinks, he saw my firearm (most of us had taken off our jackets).

Host: Excuse me sir, I am sorry but we have a sign stating no weapons allow.

Me: Really? I'm sorry I didn't see it. Not a problem.

We all got up to leave. Sitting across from us, were 4 Deputies (I know 2 of them) just ordered lunch. As we got up, so did the Deputies. I turned to them and said, "it's okay Bob, we're leaving". Bob said no problem Rick, we're leaving too.

Host: No one has too leave (motioning to my group) they just can't have weapons in here.

Me: We understand that is your policy. We however will not patron a business with your policy. Plus, we will not leave weapons in our car.

Host (turning to the Officers): Your lunch will be right out. Are you leaving?

Bob: Yes, we are. We are not allowed to be here if you have a no weapons policy, unless you have called us for some reason.

Me, I grinned a little thinking how ironic. I turned to the Host and suggest he let the owner know, that bad guys won't care about the sign. But that we understood their policy and that is their business.

I was polite, did not have an attitude in my voice, nor was I disrespectful of the Host doing his job and following policy.

When we left the building, Bob told me, that sign means they cannot carry into the place when it is posted unless of course it is an emergency or called by the business for some reason.

Anyway, all eight of my group went next door to the BBQ place and had lunch. The BBQ place didn't have a sign.

Road Rat said:

NOPE. The hardware store is open to the public. The farmers land is totally private. Apples and oranges!!

As long as the signs NO GUNS has no legal bearing and I keep my CCW concealed it is no ones business. Just the lawyers trying to do good.................and failing.

Click to expand...

In the state of Washington, it does not matter if the business is open to the public, if it is stated no weapons, you legally can not bring in a weapon. The store maybe opened to the public, but (in Washington anyway) it is considered private property. Therefore, no weapons means no weapons. And you can and normally will loose your CPL and not be able to have one again in Washington state nor possess a handgun concealed or open carry.

Just a suggestion, but you might want to check to see what is considered private property in your state.

The quoted example, is comparing apples to apples in the state of Washington.

I have to say, I agree with the state on this issue. We do own/operate a couple of businesses and we will run them the way we see fit. By the way, we do NOT have a sign that says "no weapons allowed". We have encouraged our kids to get a CPL.

Protected One said:

Yet ANOTHER reason not to live in California!

Click to expand...

I'll bet that every state that issues a concealed carry license can take it away at their whim.

Wow, Chill, even the cops???
Other than the Federal and certain county courthouses that are outside my city, I don't know of anywhere in CO that I can't have my gun, on or off duty.

Man, Washington is doggone strict! Compare that to the law here in Missouri: "Carrying of a concealed firearm in a location [where no guns are allowed/posted] by any individual who holds a [CCW permit] shall not be a criminal act but may subject the person to denial to the premises or removal from the premises. If such person refuses to leave the premises and a peace officer is summoned, such person may be issued a citation for an amount not to exceed $100 for the first offense. If a second citation for a similar violation occurs within a six-month period, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed $200 and his or her endorsement to carry concealed firearms shall be suspended for a period of one year. If a third citation for a similar violation is issued within one year of the first citation, such person shall be fined an amount not to exceed $500 and shall have his or her concealed carry endorsement revoked and such person shall not be eligible for a concealed carry endorsement for a period of three years."

I think you can see how some folks might have a bit of a don't-care attitude about carrying in posted businesses here. I hardly ever see a no-guns sign, but I don't look very closely either. All you'd have to do is leave if asked.

Rastoff said:

I'll bet that every state that issues a concealed carry license can take it away at their whim.

Click to expand...

You would be incorrect in that belief.

GerSan69 said:

Wow, Chill, even the cops???
Other than the Federal and certain county courthouses that are outside my city, I don't know of anywhere in CO that I can't have my gun, on or off duty.

Click to expand...

Yes, even the cops. Apparently the law does not have an exception for off duty or on own time.

That's what I was told by the Deputy.

Rastoff said:

I'll bet that every state that issues a concealed carry license can take it away at their whim.

Click to expand...

Not in the state of Washington. In some ways the state is strict, but... Washington is a "Shall issue" state. So long as you are not restricted because of listed convictions or restraining orders or have been involuntarily committed to a hospital for mental issues, you have to be given the permit.

Strict? As in the example, you have a CPL, go into a "no weapons allowed" area (government or private) you are charged with a misdemeanor. Plus, conditions to get and maintain a CPL is that you have NO weapons related convictions (misdemeanor or felony); federal or local, state, etc. And you not be allowed to get the CPL back, ever.

Chillock said:

...conditions to get and maintain a CPL is that you have NO weapons related convictions (misdemeanor or felony); federal or local, state, etc. And you not be allowed to get the CPL back, ever.

Click to expand...

Well, that answers it right there. Get the $200 fine, mentioned earlier, and your license will automatically be pulled because it's a weapons related misdemeanor.

Just another reason to simply not go in the establishment rather than try to assert your "constitutional" rights.

Rastoff said:

Well, that answers it right there. Get the $200 fine, mentioned earlier, and your license will automatically be pulled because it's a weapons related misdemeanor.

Just another reason to simply not go in the establishment rather than try to assert your "constitutional" rights.

Click to expand...

OR...perhaps...keep the firearm concealed, and mouth shut?

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
Edmund Burke

Protected One said:

OR...perhaps...keep the firearm concealed, and mouth shut?

Click to expand...

You missed the comments that led up to my last post. I'll sum up for you:

The comment was, "It's a $200 fine if I get caught with a firearm inside a place where it's posted not allowed. I can afford $200." (I paraphrased)
I commented that the additional cost could be the loss of your carry license.
Then it was posted that any firearms related conviction, even a misdemeanor, is grounds to deny/remove your license in WA.

So, you may do what you want, but accidents happen and concealed guns are inadvertently revealed from time to time. Roll your eyes all you want, just be knowledgeable of the consequences of the choices you make.