Appendix Carry Jogging WIth A J-Frame Revolver: Dangerous?

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SuchaBird

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Greetings, all!

I am a new member on this site, who has owned a S&W 442 since 2008, but only recently set aside my Glock 23 as my primary concealed carry handgun, in preference of my snubbie in the appendix IWB-style position.

Today I was running late getting out of my house to pick up my daughter from her bus stop after school; and as I jogged down the street and around the block with my 442 in its Talon holster, muzzle slipping back and forth between my groin and thigh as my legs pumped, I began to feel a slight chill and cold sweat from hearing the gentle clinking sound of the five Speer .38 special +P cartridges bouncing up and down in their respective cylinders, pointing at important pieces of my anatomy.

I knew my firearm was in its holster, and my finger was off of the trigger; but still, I admit a little nervousness regarding the ammunition bouncing around in there, even if it is only ever so slightly moving.

My nagging question is this: is it safe to run and bounce around with live ammunition pointing down your pants at yourself?
 
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Sure it is. If ammo could just "go off" from being jiggled around a bit
just think about how many one legged cowboys there would be from
bouncing around on the back of a horse for hours on end with a big
old .45 on their hip.
 
The 442 has no exposed hammer to snag, so you should be pretty safe. If you're still concerned, try carrying in a different position.
If I was forced to pick between the two handguns you mentioned for appendix carry, I'd be all about the j-frame.
 
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I don't like appendix carry on principle. That said, an unmodified Centennial J-frame in a quality holster has to be one of the most secure, won't "go off" rigs in all of concealed carry land.

The factory J triggers are heavy -- nothing's moving them short of a deliberate finger. Like all S&W lockwork, at rest the hammer and rebound slide each has lips that are wedged against each other, preventing the hammer from approaching the firing pin until the trigger is pulled. Jostling the holy heck out them won't create the inertia require to even approach risking the firing pin setting off a primer.

I carry a J. I have run, rolled and wrestled with it on my hip, no issue. I think it's good to never be too comfortable lest complacency with handling set it, but if you like your J, have chosen a good holster, and prefer appendix carry, I believe you can trust your set-up entirely.
 
I carried that way for over 40 years on the job, sometimes running after bad guys, and never had a problem. I would never carry a semi auto like that, but the revolver should be as safe as you can get.
 
Sounds like carrying in that position is okay. What about drawing from that position? Practice better make perfect! At least that heavy trigger comes in handy, but while amped up on adrenaline, how heavy is that pull?
 
I read the thread title and thought this was about exercise jogging, which would be crazy with IWB carry. Just running down to the corner is typical activity one might expect to do in the course of their day- so if there was some danger in doing so I think we'd be hearing enough stories of blowed-off genitals left and right (pardon the pun).

I'm (at 52) running four miles (for exercise) five days a week but carry OWB. It was a Taurus model 85, now it's an XDs in .45acp- IWB would chafe like mad. :eek:
 
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Hello. As others have stated, the J-frame lockwork has more than one safeguard built into it, meaning that nothing short of a deliberate pull of the trigger completely through its stroke will discharge the revolver. Assuming that your particular J-frame is in proper working order and no modifications have been made that would compromise the aforementioned safeguards, you can carry it IWB with confidence. Just remember that your finger is to remain outside of the trigger guard while presenting or reholstering.

I have a M36 and a M649-3 that I carry AIWB crossdraw when walking my dog. Both have visible hammers, and I have never experienced an accidental discharge, even while running or during the occasional fall. (She has a habit of walking in front of me or snaring me with her leash when she's afraid of something.) :o
 
petepeterson said:
The 442 has no exposed hammer to snag, so you should be pretty safe. If you're still concerned, try carrying in a different position.
If I was forced to pick between the two handguns you mentioned for appendix carry, I'd be all about the j-frame.
Click to expand...

I actually just began appendix carry in the past month or so, only with the 442. I used to carry my G23 in a Crossbreed SuperTuck IWB at about 4:30 or 5 o' clock, or the 442 in a DeSantis pocket holster, depending on my clothing and the weather/time of year. I recently decided to focus on just one method of carry and gun for consistency of handling in the future.

After considering my options, the J-frame, appendix-style, won the debate for me.
 
S&WForty said:
Sounds like carrying in that position is okay. What about drawing from that position? Practice better make perfect! At least that heavy trigger comes in handy, but while amped up on adrenaline, how heavy is that pull?
Click to expand...

I haven't modified my 442 in any way, aside from a little nail polish on the front site in the past, and, more recently, Crimson Trace laser grips. I like the heavy trigger pull; it definitely makes me feel safer and more in control, since it takes a little more deliberate effort to make the gun go off. I have seen that video of the guy who shot himself in the leg while practicing, and am glad to say I've never yet had a ND with any gun, and hope to never have one in the future.

I've never had to shoot under pressure under the influence of adrenaline in a critical situation, so I cannot answer for how I'd react. I hope that I never have to. In training by repetition and consistent handling of my firearm, my hope is that it will reduce my chances of a ND if it ever comes to having to draw in defense of myself or others.
 
Mainsail said:
I read the thread title and thought this was about exercise jogging, which would be crazy with IWB carry. Just running down to the corner is typical activity one might expect to do in the course of their day- so if there was some danger in doing so I think we'd be hearing enough stories of blowed-off genitals left and right (pardon the pun).

I'm (at 52) running four miles (for exercise) five days a week but carry OWB. It was a Taurus model 85, now it's an XDs in .45acp- IWB would chafe like mad. :eek:
Click to expand...

I apologize for the misleading title.

I am not a regular jogger; but when I do jog, if I carry anything, it has only been pepper spray so far to date. I live in a relatively safe neighborhood, but it is only about a twenty minutes-or-so drive from one of the most dangerous cities in the U.S., so I still like to be somewhat careful when I go out.

Four miles a day, five days a week sounds like a nice exercise regimen you have. I only used to do one through three miles when I went, and I didn't stick to it!
 
Daniel W. said:
The j-frame is fine, but I'm just not at all a fan of appendix carry and don't understand the current craze with it. It has certain advantages in the context of pure concealment, but in terms of safety, weapon retention and accessing the weapon, particularly during during a ECQ scenario, I consider it a disadvantages carry position based on my FoF research and testing. Of course, there are others that will say the complete opposite.
Click to expand...

For me, it is mostly about concealment. I want to be the unsuspecting "grey-man" who wouldn't be noticed or thought of to be carrying a firearm in public. When I used to carry my G23 IWB behind my right hip, I didn't like the thought that people behind me might see its square butt poking through (or worse, from under) my shirt.

This site with accompanying video featuring Rob Pincus is what convinced me that appendix carry was the answer I was looking for:

Pincus: Top 5 reasons for appendix carry - Bearing Arms - Concealed Carry
 
SuchaBird said:
For me, it is mostly about concealment. I want to be the unsuspecting "grey-man" who wouldn't be noticed or thought of to be carrying a firearm in public. When I used to carry my G23 IWB behind my right hip, I didn't like the thought that people behind me might see its square butt poking through (or worse, from under) my shirt.

This site with accompanying video featuring Rob Pincus is what convinced me that appendix carry was the answer I was looking for:

Pincus: Top 5 reasons for appendix carry - Bearing Arms - Concealed Carry
Click to expand...

There's pro's/con's to any carry method and like everything else, there is a trade-off somewhere. The argument that it's safer is flawed IMO, I'm just not buying it. I'd take a bullet to the side of the leg vs the alternative any day. And in terms of ECQ in-fighting, during a typical ECQ defense situation, which could involve disarm attempts, grappling, ground fighting etc., I like the option of being able to blade the body(and thereby the weapon also) away from the assailant to protect it. Picture a takedown attempt with double under-hooks, or an assailant sucker punching you and gaining the mount(ala Zimmerman/Martin), I personally wouldn't want to be carrying appendix in those types of scenarios.
And what about drawing and having to fire immediately from retention such as against a knife or impact weapon? The presentation from appendix just isn't efficient IMO in CQ scenarios based on my FoF experience. And ECQ aside, if the draw stroke from that angle itself is so fast and efficient in terms of pure shooting, why don't the majority of competitive shooters use it?
 
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Florida J Frame said:
What concerns you about a striker fired gun?
Click to expand...

Holstering is the most dangerous thing about carrying in that position. They have no exposed hammer you can put your thumb on; many have no safety outside the trigger guard. So if something gets caught in the trigger during that operation there is nothing external to help keep a ND from occurring or to help make one aware something bad is happening. Yeah I know, pay attention and nothing bad will happen, yadda, yadda and all that. Reality is bad things have already happened, and a ND with the gun in that position makes for things getting shot that are more life threatening than when carrying strongside. It's easy to point the finger and say these guys were not paying attention to what they were doing and were being foolish and while that is true; I'm not arrogant enough to think that I am incapable of something bad happening to me with a moments inattention under just the wrong circumstances; Murphy has of way of making a set of multiple things all coming together at the wrong time. There is a reason some schools have started banning AIWB at their classes. Now this is just ME - I will not carry a striker fired gun in that position - I have on occasion carried my S&W 19 (and other revolvers) in that position and will likely do so again, although strong side IWB is how I carry it 99% of the time. I have a couple of striker fired guns and though they rarely get carried, when I have it is a strongside ONLY proposition for me.
 
SuchaBird said:
For me, it is mostly about concealment. I want to be the unsuspecting "grey-man" who wouldn't be noticed or thought of to be carrying a firearm in public. When I used to carry my G23 IWB behind my right hip, I didn't like the thought that people behind me might see its square butt poking through (or worse, from under) my shirt.
Click to expand...
What you're failing to realize is that even with the bulge you were a 'grey-man' (although I dislike that term). People don't notice, and more importantly, bad people don't notice. Robbers have burst into convenience stores pointing their gun at the clerk, while a cop in uniforms is standing in the line. :eek: When I'm out running it's open carry- few notice it- none care.
SuchaBird said:
Four miles a day, five days a week sounds like a nice exercise regimen you have. I only used to do one through three miles when I went, and I didn't stick to it!
Click to expand...
Back in mid May my fat pants were getting too snug, so my choices were to buy even fatter pants, or lose the extra weight. I walked several laps, then hobbled around in a sort of shuffle-run for one lap, then finally worked my way up to four miles. By mid Aug I was down 22 pounds- my fat pants are on the shelf- they're too big. BP is around 108/70 with a resting HR of 52. Without the extra weight carry is easier, and concealment works better.

Stick with it! :)
 
DD357 said:
Holstering is the most dangerous thing about carrying in that position. They have no exposed hammer you can put your thumb on; many have no safety outside the trigger guard. So if something gets caught in the trigger during that operation there is nothing external to help keep a ND from occurring or to help make one aware something bad is happening. Yeah I know, pay attention and nothing bad will happen, yadda, yadda and all that. Reality is bad things have already happened, and a ND with the gun in that position makes for things getting shot that are more life threatening than when carrying strongside. It's easy to point the finger and say these guys were not paying attention to what they were doing and were being foolish and while that is true; I'm not arrogant enough to think that I am incapable of something bad happening to me with a moments inattention under just the wrong circumstances; Murphy has of way of making a set of multiple things all coming together at the wrong time. There is a reason some schools have started banning AIWB at their classes. Now this is just ME - I will not carry a striker fired gun in that position - I have on occasion carried my S&W 19 (and other revolvers) in that position and will likely do so again, although strong side IWB is how I carry it 99% of the time. I have a couple of striker fired guns and though they rarely get carried, when I have it is a strongside ONLY proposition for me.
Click to expand...

I actually agree with this sentiment. I dislike appendix carry for tactical points, but you also couldn't pay me to carry a stock Glock or M&P AIWB in C1 on a daily basis for safety concerns. I consider myself a pretty attentive, coordinated and safety conscious individual, but I see way too many AD's/ND's to think that carry method is perfectly safe with stock striker fired weapons. I would recommend an NY trigger module or perhaps even consider C3 if someone insisted on carrying a striker fired pistol appendix. Many will shout down these ideas, saying they indicate lack of understanding, training and simply following proper gun safety procedures should end all concerns. Well, nobody is perfect in any other aspect of their life, so why would they suddenly be mistake-proof in the context of gun handling.

Consider the following... Captain Dumb*** Reporting For Duty!!!! | Glock Talk Are to expect this individual will somehow be perfect 100% of the time in monitoring and handling his carry weapon?

Appendix carry is currently popular(a fad IMO) and promoted by certain instructors(often the same ones that think an RMR is pretty much essential on a civilian carry pistol), but there are many that dissent. Delta Force vet Larry Vickers went as far as banning it in his classes. http://bearingarms.com/larry-vickers-self-neutering-classes-guys/ and well known instructor Marty Hayes of the Firearms Academy of Seattle is not a fan either https://firearmsacademy.com/blog/92-appendix-carry-passing-fad-or-fabulous-method-of-carry
 
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Mainsail said:
What you're failing to realize is that even with the bulge you were a 'grey-man' (although I dislike that term). People don't notice, and more importantly, bad people don't notice. Robbers have burst into convenience stores pointing their gun at the clerk, while a cop in uniforms is standing in the line. :eek: When I'm out running it's open carry- few notice it- none care.Back in mid May my fat pants were getting too snug, so my choices were to buy even fatter pants, or lose the extra weight. I walked several laps, then hobbled around in a sort of shuffle-run for one lap, then finally worked my way up to four miles. By mid Aug I was down 22 pounds- my fat pants are on the shelf- they're too big. BP is around 108/70 with a resting HR of 52. Without the extra weight carry is easier, and concealment works better.

Stick with it! :)
Click to expand...

I guess that the term "grey-man" isn't so nice. Sounds kind of like a corpse, or maybe a little like someone without morals and values, doesn't it? Although I wear grey shirts sometimes, I'm more of a green and brown kind of guy; sometimes I wear blue jeans though too. I know you know what I meant though! :)

I'm not such a large man: 5'10, about 195 lbs. I'm trying to eat less and better though, with the goal of 175 lbs. by the end of this year. My BP could definitely stand to come down a bit, so more exercise would be good for my health!

I'm hoping that the butt of my J-frame will completely disappear under the shelter of my ribcage in the near future!
 
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