Need advice - home defense - night

Shield 9 WV

Shield 9 WV

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Here's my scenerio: Bad guy tries to enter home at night. Wife who is not overly gun proficient needs to use Pistol Cartridge Carbine (Extar EP9, a PCC in 9mm, 8" barrel) to repel boarders.

1. What combo is better: light with laser, or Red Dot?

2. If red dot for around $150:
Romeo 5
[ame]https://www.amazon.com/Sig-Sauer-SOR52001-Romeo5-Compact/dp/B01C95I8N4/ref=sr_1_1?crid=3DG76LS5FIWCA&dchild=1&keywords=romeo+5&qid=1587332399&s=sporting-goods&sprefix=romeo+%2Csporting%2C171&sr=1-1[/ame]

or

Vortex Optics SPARC Red Dot Gen 2[ame]https://www.amazon.com/Vortex-Optics-SPARC-Red-Sight/dp/B07YDSVM8C/ref=sr_1_4?crid=CZWOBK9O0D3Z&dchild=1&keywords=vortex+red+dot&qid=1587344141&sprefix=vortex+%2Caps%2C176&sr=8-4[/ame]

or

Your suggestion?

I think laser and light, no Red Dot. Point and shoot for the wife.

The overwhelming trend is the Red Dot, something I've not used and don't understand, especially for night duty. I need advice and guidance.
 
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Just a light and good set of iron sights, man.

Sorry but a red dot sight and laser are nonsense for home defense. The light is important for proper target identification. The iron sights don’t require batteries or any nonsense and you’re not screwing around with a bunch of buttons for the stupid laser that is going to do nothing for you and your wife.

You want things SIMPLE AND RELIABLE in a close range defensive situation. No messing around with a bunch of controls. Turn on the light to make sure it’s actually someone worth shooting, aim down the metal sights on the dam gun, and KILL THE INTRUDER.

Nothing fancy needed or desired when the adrenaline is blasting through your system at 3AM when the front door gets kicked in. Focus on getting the gun in action, ID’ing the threat, and shooting to save your life before a bunch of tacticool garbage. Spend the money on ammo and training!
 
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JayFramer said:
Just a light and good set of iron sights, man.
Click to expand...

I was looking at this, the Firefly v2 light/laser combo. #1 Seller on Amazon in Gun Sights. $70

It's lightweight and simple. I agree with you on light, you should never shoot at anything you can't see and identify.

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07R7J3786/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=A3LSNKM08V2ZZZ&psc=1[/ame]
 
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Repel boarders? Are you on a boat?

A light on a gun gives the bad guys something to shoot at. A light should be in the weak hand, held to one side.

An 8" barrel sounds like it might be unwieldy for someone not proficient.
 
AlHunt said:
Repel boarders? Are you on a boat?

A light on a gun gives the bad guys something to shoot at. A light should be in the weak hand, held to one side.

An 8" barrel sounds like it might be unwieldy for someone not proficient.
Click to expand...

The "pistol" is a PCC. It looks for all the world like a short barreled rifle and it would be if it had a vertical hand grip.

By putting an angled fore end on it is now a "pistol" and that's not a butt stock you're looking at, it's a brace, according to the ATF.

img_6867-jpg.572834
 
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brucev said:
Get a green laser.
Also use a light that is blindly bright and that works in pulses.
Also consider a good pair of Trijicon green night sights.
JMHO. Sincerely. bruce.
Click to expand...

This meets with my common sense, but I am by no means knowledgeable. I've looked into a flashlight with a bright strobe and you can't see a thing.

My son who is a LEO in South Carolina says that "under a high pressure situation you get gross motor skills only." Especially for my wife who doesn't spend any times thinking about her response to an intruder at night would be lucky if she simply grabbed the weapon and pointed it in the right direction and pulled the trigger.

If she could activate a light, and/or a button for a laser that would be great, and the best case scenario for her.

It sounds like you are saying a red dot optic is unnecessary for a night attack? That's what I'm thinking. I'd like to keep the weapon as light as possible.

No aiming, just point and shoot towards a target that has been identified as hostile.

Your thoughts?
 
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I don't know anything about your weapon but just as a matter of "philosophy" I am in the same camp with the previous poster who suggested a light (only) and iron sights. I'd also suggest you get a good quality weapon light and do routine practice/training with the combination in low light. I try to pick up my light-equipped pistol at least once a month and check the light. While I am doing that, I make a few practice presentations to continue to drill into my brain where the controls are and how they work. That's probably not a bad idea for your wife who is not particularly gun-oriented. It's easy to forget stuff you don't care much about.
 
It appears to be a nice setup in which you have invested a substantial sum. Perhaps engaging in low-light training would show you which combination of illumination and optic works best. Pure conjecture until then and using it for the first time under life-threatening stress may not be the best idea.
 
In the Army (over 50 years ago) we trained at night using our basic weapons (rifle, pistol, machinegun) without sights. Head up, eyes open, hand-eye coordination, pop-ups and moving targets. They called it instinctive shooting. It works with enough practice and training time.

Early 1970's as a young cop I was taught to use my flashlight very sparingly, save my night vision, when moving from darkness to lighted areas to keep one eye closed to conserve night vision, always keep the flashlight at arm's length away from the body so as not to present a target unnecessarily. I can't say that I always practiced these things in every situation, but that doesn't invalidate the training concepts.

Retired 25 years ago this month. I still try to practice every week at the indoor range (although this Covid-19 stuff has shut that down for a while). I like to turn the lights way down, practice instinctive shooting on dimly lit silhouettes at 3 to 5 yards. I sometimes shut off all the lights and practice with a flashlight in one hand and pistol in the other hand.

About 20 years ago I thought I had something extra special with my (then new) Kimber Custom CDP .45, tritium night sights! Like little neon signs lining up the target for me in the dark! Then one evening I sat down at my club, holstered pistol under my untucked shirt, and people started asking me what all that bright green light was under my elbow! Looked like a flashlight inside a tent on a Cub Scout camping trip. I discovered an entirely new method of "printing".

Tactical weapon lights? Pad-activated laser sights? Pretty cool stuff, probably just what I'll need if Seal Team Six is way short of guys and asks me to join in on a raid of a jihadi-nest in Berzerkistan. But I suspect that those young guys train long and hard on doing it right every time without all the whiz-bang TACTI-COOL gizmo toys before they start playing with that sort of stuff.

Until that happens I'll continue to rely on the original "point-click interface" for up close and personal, across the room in the middle of the night stuff.

OK, the old guy is done ranting for now. You can move along, nothing more to see here.
 
A red dot isn’t necessary in my opinion. But a mounted light is.

Also think about the layout of your home. In my home the bad guy must enter a long hallway to get to the bedrooms. Just before you enter the hallway, I have a motion activated LED night light. If they’re foolish enough to keep coming.......

Harden your perimeter doors too.
 
At night, pistol, sg or carbine, I want a light on it. Point the light at the target & press the trigger. Nothing to align. Just check your batteries often.
 
LoboGunLeather said:
In the Army we trained at night using our basic weapons (rifle, pistol, machinegun) without sights. Head up, eyes open, hand-eye coordination, pop-ups and moving targets.


They called it instinctive shooting. It works with enough practice and training time.

I totally agree with this concept, speaking as an untrained civilian. That's why I don't totally understand all the red dot stuff. It seems like everyone is on board with it other than me.


Retired 25 years ago this month.

Congratulations, and thank you for your service. My son is a LEO for a city and has five years in.

Tactical weapon lights? Pad-activated laser sights? Pretty cool stuff,
probably just what I'll need if Seal Team Six is way short of guys and asks me to join in on a raid

I bet you would fit right in. :D

Until that happens I'll continue to rely on the original "point-click interface" for up close and personal, across the room in the middle of the night stuff.

OK, the old guy is done ranting for now. You can move along, nothing more to see here.[/QUOTE

Pretty good rant young man. :)
+++

As for the rest of you who have posted responses: We have a fantastic pool of knowledge and experience here.

What great posts, all of them.
Click to expand...
 
My long guns have mounted lights - the Mossberg 590 has a 600 lumen Surefire fore end; the switch is right where I would have my right hand anyway. The AR platforms have Surefire PX3 (1000 lumen) lights mounted right where my right thumb (I'm left handed) can operate them. They also have RDS - Aimpoints being the best choice out there. I have lousy eyesight, and age/health related deterioration too. The RDS give me a huge advantage.

I did a bunch of training with Pat Rogers (10 classes between 2007-2015), including night range time. I admit the training was directed at LE/military functions, not home defense, but the foundation was solid and stayed with me.

The light and dot make a heck of a difference in performance. It will only matter when it really matters. I also carry a 2 cell Surefire with me all the time - my dress coats are reinforced for the purpose, but now that I am rarely in court, I usually just wear cargo pants and the light is always there. It's just as much part of my EDC as a pistol.

As most know, when we get to home defense my rant is about making layered defense (fence at least 6'; padlocked gates; floodlights at access points; large and cranky sounding dogs) your friend. I'm sure I've written something in the last 3 week of that nature. If someone is able to get to your house uninvited, you have already started to fail. If they can get in uninvited, you have REALLY failed.
 
The only thing I'd like to add

JayFramer said:
Just a light and good set of iron sights, man.

Sorry but a red dot sight and laser are nonsense for home defense. The light is important for proper target identification. The iron sights don’t require batteries or any nonsense and you’re not screwing around with a bunch of buttons for the stupid laser that is going to do nothing for you and your wife.

You want things SIMPLE AND RELIABLE in a close range defensive situation. No messing around with a bunch of controls. Turn on the light to make sure it’s actually someone worth shooting, aim down the metal sights on the dam gun, and KILL THE INTRUDER.

Nothing fancy needed or desired when the adrenaline is blasting through your system at 3AM when the front door gets kicked in. Focus on getting the gun in action, ID’ing the threat, and shooting to save your life before a bunch of tacticool garbage. Spend the money on ammo and training!
Click to expand...

I recommend actually looking for likely points of entry and at least having a couple of plans: Can you escape and call the cops? Are you trapped?

Myself, I tend to overthink things. I have a suppressed bullpup with subsonic ammunition. The sights aren't the best design so I do have a trijicon MRO. Otherwise, I prefer iron/night sights.

Jayframer has the right idea.
 
brucev said:
Also use a light that is blindly bright and that works in pulses.
Click to expand...
Think about this for a moment. If the light is blindingly bright and you're using it in low light or dark conditions, won't it also blind you?

I've done some house clearing training at night. I've learned that a 200lumen light is plenty bright and even a 60lumen is great if used properly.
 
Shield 9 WV said:
Here's my scenerio: Bad guy tries to enter home at night. Wife who is not overly gun proficient needs to use Pistol Cartridge Carbine (Extar EP9, a PCC in 9mm, 8" barrel) to repel boarders.
Click to expand...
You’re expecting your wife will get woken up in the middle of the night and figure out how to operate the controls on a PCC she’s not really proficient with under the extreme stress of a home invasion? Seems like a recipe for things to get sideways there. Maybe a simpler to use weapon? I’d be thinking a revolver or dao semi auto. Truly point and shoot.

1. What combo is better: light with laser, or Red Dot?
Click to expand...
Neither. I’d prefer a layered approach. Better door and window locks. Barky dog. Dog is great for pre-alert plus you’ll get some fitness and stress relief from your new companion. Some motion activated exterior and interior lights. Flashlight if the power is out so she doesn’t shoot you by mistake. A place for your wife to retreat to and barricade in while waiting for police. If someone breaches the barricade, the pistol for defense.
 
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When my wife and I were first married I worked a job that had me on the road a lot. We lived in a townhouse apartment with the bedroom at the top of the stairs. For a house gun I gave her a simple sxs shotgun that I had shortened the barrels to 20" and added a high viz front sight. I told her that if she heard an intruder downstairs don't investigate, call the police, yell loudly that she had called the police and was armed, get on the opposite side of the bed from the bedroom door and wait.

If the bedroom door opened and the police had not arrived fire the first barrel. If it filled up again, fire the second barrel. "What if there is a third intruder?" she asked. "If the third intruder is determined or stoned enough to climb over the bodies of his two companions you should have time to reload," I replied. Point being I didn't want her investigating noises in the dark. Stuff is replaceable, I wanted her to pick a defensive position and call for help. The short sxs could be reloaded and managed in the semi darkness. Unless this was a very determined attacker I figured even if she missed the first shot, which was unlikely, the intruders would be exiting the building. And before anyone asks I had already determined that given the apartment layout any stray shot would either go into our upstairs closet or out the roof.
 
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