EDC and Optics?

Now 72, realized at the range I no longer have a distinct view of the front sight when looking downrange (have 20/20 corrected vision, just old eyes). Stillhitting center mass, groups just a bit more spread out.
Has anyone switched over to an optic for EDC, and if so, what is your experience with it, and what optic worked best?
If I go that route would likely look for a new handgun already set-up with an optic.

My eyes are heading down the same path. My EDC is a Kahr 3", so it's not suited to mounting an optic. I took my Glock 19 and put a Holosun red dot sight on it. Sight acquisition for me is much quicker with the red dot. Problem is the Glock has a much larger footprint, so it prints more than the Kahr. I did get a Desantis Sidestep holster to accommodate the optic, but I haven't started carrying it yet. Trying to get used to/trust the red dot first. I think if I were back at square one I'd try to get something like a Hellcat or another compact pistol that comes with the optic already installed. The Glock is just bigger than what I'd like to have hanging on my belt. Definitely would recommend the red dot sights though.

I've been kicking around the same idea. I would just use a P365 SIG like the one I carry.
Seems like it would take a good bit of getting used to, though. That's why I've been putting it off.

We're on the same page..

As a former competitor and firearms instructor both "civilian" and LEO's I offer the following.

Red dot optics have their place on EDC's but require lots of practice and training. All too often I see people without training and sufficient practice struggle to find the dot. I can't imagine this struggle in a self-defense situation.

Practice, practice and repeat until you can hit COM at 3, 5 and 7 yards at least, with or without sights!!

Be sure that your red dot allows for "co-witness" with your metallic sights if possible.

Do a little research to find the sight that suits your needs such as size, holster fit and "shake awake" feature and auto adjust for changing light conditions.

The dot sights available today are far better than just a few years ago and I expect will become the norm.

That being said a laser with a pressure switch may also suit your needs and require far less practice to become proficient!

Smiles,

I did it for awhile with my P365XL and Holosun 407K/507K.



My thoughts on it are that it's absolutely doable, but just not ideal for me at the moment. The biggest gain I had was precision, which is why I have a dot on my target .22. I'm pretty decent with irons, but my groups and ability to hit smaller targets at longer ranges really improved.

I did have three issues with it. The first is the biggest issue I had, the lack of predictability of dot brightness. I didn't even think about it, but the first time I carried it to the range I'd set the brightness to a useable level indoors, and when I got to the outdoor range it was invisible. I adjusted the brightness for the range, got home, the dot is super bright and unusable. Unlike dots used on rifles, you don't really get a good chance to manually adjust your dot to changing light levels, since its presumably in your holster concealed and not being messed with. I'm sure there are options (and will be more) with decent auto-adjustment, but thats about the only fix I can figure out.

The second issue is getting crud into the window. The window acts like a scoop, not a big issue for most concealed use but you can definitely get sand, sweat, and lint in there if you're unlucky. It's not always a problem but definitely something I paid attention to.

The third issue is really not the fault of the dot at all, but where I noticed it. When you're using a rifle dot, you really don't need to think about where the dot will be, since placing your cheek on the stock gives you an extra contact point and aligns you pretty well. If you're off even a tiny bit on the pistol dot, you can't see it at all and are chasing it, whereas with irons you can at least quickly align your sights since both front and rear are visible even if you're not aligned. The correct answer to this is just get your presentations better and fix the sloppiness, but I didn't quite have the time and ammo during the covid panic to do so.

If you want to try a dot, there are lots of options out there, and they are definitely going to be the future. I'm seeing more and more cops with dots on their pistols both in person and in the footage we see, you'd still be an early-ish adopter but it's not some unproven tech.

I'm an instructor and was not sold on red dots, but set up a gun for it and went to an instructor school because I knew I'd have to teach it, so might as well learn it.

I have switched all but my smallest guns to have dots. Duty Glock 17 and off duty 19. Have toyed with the idea of milling my 43 for a micro red dot.

I use the Holosun 507c. I prefer the larger window and clearer glass than the RMR and like the 32 MOA circle with dot for my purposes.

I think dots will make better shooters but not necessarily better self defense weapons. My idea of SD is close up and quick. You gain in one respect with a dot but lose in another important one. Maybe I'm wrong but what you gain in precision you lose in concealability.

Im 55 with bad eyes. Metallic sites are getting harder to get a crisp picture. Even with glasses. In December is picked up a 2.0 mp compact optics ready. I did put a red dot on it. It did take time to get used to. Lots and lots of dry practice drawing. What I did find is my groups are tighter. Also I'm on target just a shade faster. I can use this set up even if I don't have my glasses on. Big plus in my opinion. It's no harder to conceal than a firearm with out a dot with a good holster.

Gene L said:

I think dots will make better shooters but not necessarily better self defense weapons. My idea of SD is close up and quick. You gain in one respect with a dot but lose in another important one. Maybe I'm wrong but what you gain in precision you lose in concealability.

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I don't think you're giving up much concealability. Go ahead and take a look at the pic I posted a few posts up, carry dots are small and add dimensionally in a way that doesn't impact concealment.

I'm waiting for a P365 slide to come back from Maple Leaf Firearms that's getting cut for the new Trijicon RMRcc. This will be my own personal experiment to see if this is a viable replacement for my G42. Most of my shooting is done with red dot sights so I figured I'd try it out for CCW. Below is a pic (not mine) showing how compact this setup can be.

I have a Holosun 407c-V2, Gr on my EDC M&P 2.0 9mm 4"


I have to agree that it takes practice to acquire the dot, but it's not that hard. After watching a few videos on youtube I found a method that worked very well for me. I'm getting a little better every time I train (Live and Dry).



If I can do it, anyone can.

It's got several issues, most presented above. However, to capture quickly:

1. It takes lots of practice to learn how to present the pistol so you see the dot. It also takes sustainment practice to keep the skill. I found lifting the pistol vertically to my eyes with slightly bent elbows (not pivoting an out stretched arm) to work much better. You also most definitely need good iron sights that are usable.

2. Lint, dust and other stuff on the rear lens can, with the light from behind you, keep you from seeing through the sight. Properly and gently clean frequently. Many LE duty holsters seem to have spring loaded hoods protecting the optic. The only lens covers I've found aren't see through.

3. You've just made the pistol much taller/bulkier. Without going to massively oversize clothes, what worked for me is a just forward of the support side hip cross draw. This presents many fewer problems.

4. The average private citizen armed encounter is at 5 yards. Do you really need the optic? Even at today's prices you can buy a whole lot of practice ammo for what the optic and fitting it costs. Yes, the dot allows me to shoot 25 yard groups tighter than I've ever done before, but the primary advantage is in reduced light.

5. FWIW, my optic gives me the choice of automatic or manual brightness selection. I've found automatic overly bright in direct sunlight, very good to excellent in reduced light and no dot at all if there's no ambient light, even with a gun mounted bright light. At least with the RMR type 2, you can, like many rifle optics, find a manual setting that works in most conditions and/or learn to preset.

Leupold DeltaPoint Micro

Take a look at the DeltaPoint Micro all you have to do is remove your rear sight and install the red dot they only make them for
M&P and Glock I put one on my Shield Plus and like it very much it is low profile so works good for concealed carry easy to get on target and easy to set up. I tried to post pictures but it won't accept pics from my MacBook Air not the right format I guess.
Take a look it can't hurt.

Gene L said:

I think dots will make better shooters but not necessarily better self defense weapons. My idea of SD is close up and quick. You gain in one respect with a dot but lose in another important one. Maybe I'm wrong but what you gain in precision you lose in concealability.

Click to expand...

That's my thoughts. I need red dots or scopes on my target or hunting handguns, but figure with self defense, I'll be so close that blurry sites won't matter. I also don't like the slightly increased sized, battery issues, etc.

I venture to say a laser would be more practical, for me at least. I don't think in a self defense situation I'd have the time to draw and bring the pistol to eye level to get a site picture. With a laser, I'd draw and turn it on and the pistol hits where the dot is. More or less. Besides, a perp. may pause to rethink his actions seeing a red dot on his torso.
Of course others being more skilled may differ.
Just my 2 Lincoln's.

ACORN said:

Besides, a perp. may pause to rethink his actions seeing a red dot on his torso.
Of course others being more skilled may differ.
Just my 2 Lincoln's.

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What makes you think an aggressor is going to be looking at their own chest? Or that the light conditions and their clothing will let you see the dot?

The optic really doesn't change the point & shoot thing at really close range.

BTW, the extremes of private citizen armed encounters is 2 yards and 27 yards.

I guess you missed the part where I said "may".
Like I said it's my opinion for my own situation.
I only pocket carry.
If you want an optic, knock yorself out.

For right now my P365 sights work very well.

My input

I put a Sig Romeo Zero on my Canik TP9 Elite SC, easy because it was optic ready. Chosen because it allowed co-witness with the iron sights and auto shut off when pistol is stationary.
I was fairly soon able to find the dot, but not happy with limited number of holsters to accommodate the sight. I wearied of frequent swabbing dust and lint off the lens.
I decided that the iron sights are suitable for self defense distance.

I am unwilling to invest the expense, time and practice a red dot or laser will require. I simply practice with what I have and adjust accordingly.
YMMV