Your Spanish S&W copies - let's see 'em!

Goony · May 31, 2012

Takes us a bit off-topic, but here you go, Texas Star - just print it out and fill in your name!

http://images.marketplaceadvisor.ch...ant_heinz_57_1955_giveaway_comic_120910_2.jpg

Texas Star · May 31, 2012

Goony said:
Takes us a bit off-topic, but here you go, Texas Star - just print it out and fill in your name!

http://images.marketplaceadvisor.ch...ant_heinz_57_1955_giveaway_comic_120910_2.jpg

Thanks! I think I may have had one of those forms
as a kid. I see him there with his nephew Cubby or Cuffy, or whatever.

Does anyone recall his revolver? I think the holster was for the Mlle. '92 8mm. But France may have gotten some Victory Model .38's after WWII. I know they got a LOT of .30 carbines and M-3 trench knives.

Praetorianseven · Jul 12, 2012

A friend of mine has given me an old revolver to identify and I need some help. At first glance it appears to be a S&W Model 10 or M&P. I believe it is a Spanish copy and I have determined that it would fire .32-20 ammo. The only marking on it (besides the serial number) is a trademark that I cannot identify. It does not match other standard Spanish trademarks. Any info will be appreciated and I'm attaching pics.

Goony · Jul 12, 2012

I'm thinking F. Arizmendi y Cia (previously Francisco Arizmendi y Goenaga), a fairly prominent and successful firm, at least through the WWI period, their products regarded as being of good quality. Francisco was likely a relation of Norberto, whose separate company made the revolver with which I started this thread.

haggis · Jul 13, 2012

Praetorianseven said:
A friend of mine has given me an old revolver to identify and I need some help. At first glance it appears to be a S&W Model 10 or M&P. I believe it is a Spanish copy and I have determined that it would fire .32-20 ammo. The only marking on it (besides the serial number) is a trademark that I cannot identify. It does not match other standard Spanish trademarks. Any info will be appreciated and I'm attaching pics.

Trocaola, Aranzábal y Cia., Eibar, Spain. They had a reputation for making decent quality firearms.

Buck

Goony · Jul 13, 2012

haggis said:
Trocaola, Aranzábal y Cia., Eibar, Spain. They had a reputation for making decent quality firearms. Buck

I'm not sure about that identification, Buck (while I'll admit to not being sure about mine, either).

Look at the T.A.C. logo pictured in post #32 - close, but not identical. I'm not seeing that same obvious "T" in the this latest one, it looks to me more like a "Y" along the lines of the highly stylized ampersand in the S&W logo. T.A.C. was also pretty good about marking their products beyond just a logo. But I can see how it might be interpreted as a ornate "T" in which case I'd be on board with you - but I just don't know if the T.A.C. logo style evolved over time in this fashion....

PuertoRican · Jul 13, 2012

This is an "Escodin". Supposed to be .32 Winchester from 1924.

Donald Paul · Jul 13, 2012

Spanish:

Copy of M10 or M&P.
Eibar Detective.
4.5 inch - .38 Long ctg.
Not too bad shape.
Numbers don't match - {frame to bbl.}
Wall hanger only.

Donald Paul · Jul 13, 2012

Spanish:

... wall hanger.
{Bad shape}.

Goony · Jul 14, 2012

PuertoRican said:
This is an "Escodin". Supposed to be .32 Winchester from 1924.

Manuel Escodin, one of the more obcure Eibar gunmakers, reportedly went out of business in 1931. Escodin revolvers are nevertheless regarded as being of better quality (albeit that judgment being relative to other Spanish made S&W copies) - some were even of a fancier, engraved grade.

haggis · Jul 14, 2012

Goony said:
I'm not sure about that identification, Buck (while I'll admit to not being sure about mine, either).

Look at the T.A.C. logo pictured in post #32 - close, but not identical. I'm not seeing that same obvious "T" in the this latest one, it looks to me more like a "Y" along the lines of the highly stylized ampersand in the S&W logo. T.A.C. was also pretty good about marking their products beyond just a logo. But I can see how it might be interpreted as a ornate "T" in which case I'd be on board with you - but I just don't know if the T.A.C. logo style evolved over time in this fashion....

Goony,

I researched this a bit more, and I just managed to get myself more confused. I looked in Zhuk, Gangarosa, and Gunmarks, and neither of the two trademarks in this thread look very close the Tracoala, Aranzábal y Cia marks shown in those references. The two shown in Gunmarks are:

The bottom one matches those shown in Zhuk and Gangarosa. It appears that either:

TAC had a number of different trademarks, or
Another Spanish firm was copying TAC

I just don't know.

Buck

Goony · Jul 17, 2012

Well, to muddy the waters even further, here's yet another variation on the theme, this one in a shield motif found on the barrel of one of the company's shotguns. Trocaola, Aranzabal y Cia evidently could no more settle on a trademark than a teenaged girl can on a nail polish color.

Cyrano · Jul 17, 2012

I understand Gene Gangarosa has a new book on Spanish firearms. I haven't seen it yet. My reference is "Spanish Pistol Makers 1875 To 1940" by Joseph T. Vorisek. It's copyrighted 1993 and published by Armsco Press, PO Box 384, Canton, CT, 06019. Lots of good information, although the book is very cheaply produced.

Goony · Jul 18, 2012

Spanish Handguns by Gene Gangarosa Jr.

Gangarosa's book (published by Stoeger, ISBN 0-88317-223-2) dates back to 2001, unless there is a sequel or newer edition I'm unaware of. It's still readily available, but has suddenly gotten quite pricey, so far as I can see.

KristinRoca · Jul 31, 2012

Help Identifying a gun please-as requested PICTURES included !

It is very shiny like a nickel (little blackening in some areas). on one side of the barrel says 38 LONG CTG then it has a Lion, next to that is a Crest with an X in the middle with crown on top next to that is another Lion. Above the both of those are P.N

On top of barrel says: USE U.S. STANDARD AMMUNITION
the other side of barrel says: GUARANTEED NEW 1926 MODEL

On the cylinder is another Lion
Inside the cylinder is the numbers 3 4 twice

Under the grip on the butt is: B.G. in an oval with numbers next to it reading 8498

The other side is stamped Made in Spain

I have searched everywhere and cannot find the same exact one-similar but not the same. (Has no makers mark , i.e. Eibar etc).

Goony · Jul 31, 2012

Well, the proof marks are indicative of manufacture in Eibar no sooner than 1929. There were some very small gunmakers in Spain around that time, and it may prove impossible to attribute your gun definitively to one of them. The fit and finish aspect appears to be at least decent. From a design standpoint, it has a sideplate, which is a good sign, but lacks a barrel lug for the ejector rod tip, which isn't so good.

It's most likely chambered for the .38 Long Colt cartridge, which is not the same as .38 Special. Not knowing what level of experience and sophistication you have with respect to firearms, I want to emphasize that attempting to fire .38 Special in ths gun would be hazardous. In fact, if you are going to shoot this at all, even with the correct ammunition, a once over by a professional gunsmith would be in order.

haggis · Jul 31, 2012

The revolver may be a copy of the S&W Hand Ejector Model of 1926, due to the barrel marking. It appears to have a larger bore than .38 and is likely a .44 Russian or .44 Special. However, the cylinder doesn't doesn't appear large enough for .44's. The poster needs to measure the chambers and bore to confirm which it is.

I'm going to take a guess that the "B.G" in the oval is for Benito Guisasola, a known maker of better class revolvers copied from S&W.

The proof marks are interesting in that the the Lion pistol proof should not have been used after 12/14/29, and the "crown over shield with X" admission-to-proof mark should have been used after 12/14/29. Maybe the gun dates from around the changeover.

Obviously, an gunsmith needs to evaluate condition and determine caliber before you shoot it, if you intend to do so.

Buck

Hank Jr · Aug 23, 2012

Well I made it over...Thanks Mr Goony......I myself have recently fell into the Spanish copy pit,which is really a cool copy of the Frontier...The best I can find out is that the gun was made in the WWI era (1915 Contract. these were made for England by the three Hermanos brothers) and is in 455 cal. Across top of barrel is Smith Pattern Made in Spain. on right side is the trade mark of Guisasela Hermanos of Eibar Spain. Checking my proof mark book shows a Crown over CP (London Eng) & a Crown over V (shows London Proof) this is in the barrel. The Crown over V also shows on frame near break latch and cylinder...frame, barrel,and cylinder show a 50 which I'm guessing is a serial number....what I can't find in any book is on the back strap is C4E9...also on back strap an L over 34 (which I am guessing is the newly formed 34th Division at the time)....can anyone elaborate further on this weapon ....thanks

lockandload · Aug 23, 2012

spanish copy breaktop 44 russian I think

11

had3nuf · Oct 15, 2012

Goony, I picked this one up this last weekend I have done a little research on the web, I was told the helmet and shield are the crest for a company called JL Galef, that is what it says on the top of the barrel,
JL Galef NY sole distributor USA 1924 reformed model, & on the side of the barrel it says 38 special ctg. behind the trigger guard on the frame is stamped SPAIN

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Your Spanish S&W copies - let's see 'em!

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