Sporterized arms. What say you.

Cooter Brown said:

Is this a serious post?

Click to expand...

Semi serious. I really don't care who they are or what they made. As far as I'm concerned the only worth while surplus firearm is the one that came the way it is from the factory. All others are just Bubba. Some Bubbas just have more artistic talent then others. Still a ruined rifle to me. It's now to expansive for practical use and had no history left

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Clearly you have no idea who Griffin & Howe is. They and others like them are most certainly NOT bubbas.

I guess maybe I'm showing my age here, but I don't understand what in the world is sacrosanct about an old military rifle. Millions of them were turned out in the last century. One essentially just like the other. Lots and lots of those are in the collections of military collectors in military configuration. The vast, vast majority have not been altered.

In the first half of the 20th century many of those surplus guns were turned into what was for the time the ultimate sporting rifle, giving an old gun (or parts of it) a new life.

When I was coming along those '03 and Mauser custom and semi-custom rifles were the ultimate expression of a sporting arm. That sort of rifle was what you aspired to have. Truthfully I find it astounding that there is any controversy at all on this site about the issue.

My biggest I-didn't-buy-it regret was 15 years ago or so--a Griffin & Howe 30-06 Springfield, with a Lyman sight, in somebodie's-uncle-bought-it-shot-it-once-and-put-it-in-the-closet condition. This rifle was a twin to Hemingway's African rifle--his favorite rifle period. It was priced at a point that would make people who know about these things cringe.

Like I said, it's bizarre to me that there is even a question about all this.

Straightshooter2 said:

I have this 03 Springfield Mark I that is chambered in .270. One of the guys at my LGS said it looked as if whoever sporterized it was a Jack O'Connor fan.

My brother has a sporterized 03-A3 .30-06 I bought several years ago. You couldn't keep all the shots on a paper plate at 100 yards with the old wood stock. Restocked it with a Ramline I found cheap at a gunshow and it turned into tackdriver.

CW

Click to expand...

What kind of stock is that, Straightshooter? I have a 1903 Springfield that my grandfather cut up in the late 40's and didn't get the stock cut right. I would consider putting a modern stock on it if I can find one as pretty as yours. The only nice thing about the existing stock is that it has Elmer Keith's cartouche on it (OGEK inside a rectangle).

Cooter Brown said:

Clearly you have no idea who Griffin & Howe is. They and others like them are most certainly NOT bubbas.

I guess maybe I'm showing my age here, but I don't understand what in the world is sacrosanct about an old military rifle. Millions of them were turned out in the last century. One essentially just like the other. Lots and lots of those are in the collections of military collectors in military configuration. The vast, vast majority have not been altered.

In the first half of the 20th century many of those surplus guns were turned into what was for the time the ultimate sporting rifle, giving an old gun (or parts of it) a new life.

When I was coming along those '03 and Mauser custom and semi-custom rifles were the ultimate expression of a sporting arm. That sort of rifle was what you aspired to have. Truthfully I find it astounding that there is any controversy at all on this site about the issue.

My biggest I-didn't-buy-it regret was 15 years ago or so--a Griffin & Howe 30-06 Springfield, with a Lyman sight, in somebodie's-uncle-bought-it-shot-it-once-and-put-it-in-the-closet condition. This rifle was a twin to Hemingway's African rifle--his favorite rifle period. It was priced at a point that would make people who know about these things cringe.

Like I said, it's bizarre to me that there is even a question about all this.

Click to expand...

So if I took a GARAND, cut the wood, chopped the barrel, added a rail or two and something folding you wouldn't care?

Let me rephrase this. I KNOW WHO THEY ARE. Let me also rephrase that ANYONE cutting on a milsurp is a BUBBA. .....ANYONE. I'm not sure if I can make that any more clear. .....ANYONE. why? Because those rifles have character. For instance, where else can I get a rifle that was built in 1895, fought in the Russian revolution, fought WW1 then ww2 where it was captured by the Fins, then back by the Russians and sent to the Balkan partisans or shipped to Spain in the 30s. They have character. They have the been there done that look and feel. And each one is different. No two are the same

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

I have a US Rifle Model 1917 .30-06 made by Remington in 1918 which was re-worked into a heavy sporter sometime in the 1950's or 60's. The metal work and bluing are very well done. Surprisingly the barrel is not cut, still sporting its full 26 inches.
The only thing detracting from the rifle's appearance is a pretty poor checkering job on the walnut Fajen brand stock. Guess checkering wasn't the gunsmith's forte. I only paid $225 OTD for the gun.

Shooting wise, the old 1917 was good, but with the terrible original 8lb two stage trigger groups were never great. I finally found a Timney trigger for the old war horse and man what a difference a 3LB crisp let-off did for group size. I'm considering having the barrel shortened to 24 inches and target crowned to finally finish her.

Arik said:

So if I took a GARAND, cut the wood, chopped the barrel, added a rail or two and something folding you wouldn't care?

Let me rephrase this. I KNOW WHO THEY ARE. Let me also rephrase that ANYONE cutting on a milsurp is a BUBBA. .....ANYONE. I'm not sure if I can make that any more clear. .....ANYONE. why? Because those rifles have character. For instance, where else can I get a rifle that was built in 1895, fought in the Russian revolution, fought WW1 then ww2 where it was captured by the Fins, then back by the Russians and sent to the Balkan partisans or shipped to Spain in the 30s. They have character. They have the been there done that look and feel. And each one is different. No two are the same

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

A ridiculous analogy. A Garand does not lend itself to a sporting rifle.

Springfields and and Mausers most certainly do. As I said, there are millions of military rifles still around. And I don't see people standing in line for a custom Mosin.

I suppose you've made yourself clear. If you know who these custom makers are and have seen what they do, and you still think that the likes of Griffin & Howe, Leonard Brownell, Jerry Fisher, Paul Jaeger, Clayton Nelson, Hal Hartley et al are "bubbas" clarity is not the issue--the fact that you're wrong is the issue.

Arik said:

So if I took a GARAND, cut the wood, chopped the barrel, added a rail or two and something folding you wouldn't care?

Let me rephrase this. I KNOW WHO THEY ARE. Let me also rephrase that ANYONE cutting on a milsurp is a BUBBA. .....ANYONE. I'm not sure if I can make that any more clear. .....ANYONE. why? Because those rifles have character. For instance, where else can I get a rifle that was built in 1895, fought in the Russian revolution, fought WW1 then ww2 where it was captured by the Fins, then back by the Russians and sent to the Balkan partisans or shipped to Spain in the 30s. They have character. They have the been there done that look and feel. And each one is different. No two are the same

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Do you feel the same way about cars? Houses?

Griffin & Howe "idiots" and "Bubbas"?

My, my, my. I learn something new every day. I guess that explains why their work is so inexpensive and lightly regarded.

Apples and oranges. Are you a collector/acquirer or a shooter? If you like them the way they came off the battlefield, fine. If you want something tuned, beautified and improved to shoot, also fine.

But Griffin & Howe "idiots"? Top-class riflesmiths "Bubbas"? That's a bit much. And I feel as if I've swallowed a hook.

Arik said:

Semi serious. I really don't care who they are or what they made. As far as I'm concerned the only worth while surplus firearm is the one that came the way it is from the factory. All others are just Bubba. Some Bubbas just have more artistic talent then others. Still a ruined rifle to me. It's now to expansive for practical use and had no history left

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Most of the pre war Griffin & Howes were built using receivers supplied by Springfield Armory. So no milsurp rifles were harmed.

What kills me is the guys that buy sporterized military rifles and then spend hundreds of dollars putting worn out and rejected parts with an after market stock to try and make it look like it did when it left the factory. Talk about deceit!

And I take my Griffin & Howe .22 hornet hunting for rabbits. It's making history all the time. Not at Hemmingway's level, but
still history.
Ken

All I can say is: "If you do it, DO IT RIGHT!"

Eltioloco said:

Most of the pre war Griffin & Howes were built using receivers supplied by Springfield Armory. So no milsurp rifles were harmed.

What kills me is the guys that buy sporterized military rifles and then spend hundreds of dollars putting worn out and rejected parts with an after market stock to try and make it look like it did when it left the factory. Talk about deceit!

And I take my Griffin & Howe .22 hornet hunting for rabbits. It's making history all the time. Not at Hemmingway's level, but
still history.
Ken

Click to expand...

Very nice!!! And a good point about many of the guns made before the war.

I've always wanted a 03-A4 sniper rifle. Can't afford one. Found a sporterized 03-A3 at the Albuquerque show some years ago. Stock cut back, receiver drilled and tapped and bolt bent, two groove barrel. I bought it. It didn't shoot too well the first time. Didn't do too well the second time either, but then I found an old cartridge box in the trash bin, tore a couple of strips off it, and after loosening the guard screws, put the strips under the forend and tightened everything down. It shot into almost an inch!! Got a military stock for it, and had it inletted for the bolt. Didn't know what to do about the bedding, but after asking on line I liked one answere: "just tighten everything down and see how it shoots". It shot about as well as the cutoff stock with cardboard shims. It's one of the most accurate rifles I own. Noone will mistake it for an 03-A4, but it looks a lot like one and is most satisfactorily accurate.

Any sporter with double set triggers is fabulous in my book.

No sporting rifle should be made without them.

Arik said:

So if I took a GARAND, cut the wood, chopped the barrel, added a rail or two and something folding you wouldn't care?
Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

Does the rifle belong to you? If so, then no, I wouldn't care.

I've been a shooter since I was 9, and I can't remember ever not being a "gun nut".

But I think we should remember we're discussing inanimate objects, and the right one has to do whatever they want to with their own property. If someone was to buy a beautiful old Triple Lock, and decide to make it a snubby, there are lots of people here who would cry foul over that. Who cares?

Opinions are referred to as a person's "2 cents worth" for a pretty good reason!

Hi, my name is SteelSlaver and I am a Bubba! My dad was a Bubba too. He bought Springfields and Enfields and bubbaed everyone of them. All 5 of us boys and a couple of the girls all have them. Milled off sights, straightened floor plates, cock on opening firing pins and Herters stocks. Mine was past to my son. I still have my dads Enfield which was bubbaed so far it became a 30-338. Whaaaaaa. All of them are well loved and more cherished than if they had remained the $19.95 milspecs he bought them for. All of them have shot a lot of game. Great guns. I myself am a S&W butcher. My Brazilian is almost complete as a carbine complete with reworked and welded grip frame and 16 1/2" barrel and adjustable sights, my model 25-2 sports a 45LC cylinder, my model 10 has adjustable sights and a 357 cylinder. My 629 is going under the knife next to become the perfect 45LC/ACP. Cylinder reamed to 45LC and then milled for full moons and the full length under lug on the 45 barrel I just bought will be milled to the old style profile. Mine get worked on and shot. None of them laying in a safe being perfect and LNIB.

If it wasn't for people like me and my dad a lot of the valuable collectables the purist cherish and pursue would just be one of many and a lot less of a collectors item. You want to be a purist that's fine with me. But, to me something like a 1917 Enfield in full military dress that rarely leaves the gun safe to fire is a lot less valuable than a nice sporterized one that goes to camp every year and hangs meat on the pole.

Its like this. You can have the perfect example of a milspec 1937 Brazilian in perfect condition with the factory stocks. Whoopee, one of how many??
I am going to have a DA revolving carbine in 45ACP/LC with a nice walnut/maple stock and forearm. How many of those are there???
How much is it worth? Haven't got a clue? If I wanted money I would collect money and not spend it on guns.

sometimes sporting an old rifle is great your giving it a new home and its being put to good use and enjoyment is a wonderful thing.

RobertJ. said:

Does the rifle belong to you? If so, then no, I wouldn't care.

I've been a shooter since I was 9, and I can't remember ever not being a "gun nut".

But I think we should remember we're discussing inanimate objects, and the right one has to do whatever they want to with their own property. If someone was to buy a beautiful old Triple Lock, and decide to make it a snubby, there are lots of people here who would cry foul over that. Who cares?

Opinions are referred to as a person's "2 cents worth" for a pretty good reason!

Click to expand...

Never said he couldn't do it. Do whatever you want. Doesn't make it less Bubba tho

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Confessions of a teenaged Bubba

I think this No4 Mk I cost about 29 bucks when I got it and started sawing away in 1972 or thereabouts. I like it. With the mag and butt-thingy full I've got 19 rounds available. The sights are great and it handles very well.

I especially like the snorts of derision it elicits from the don't-touch-them-they-only-made-a-gazillion-of-them crowd.





Randy likes it, and that's what counts anyway.

Its true, my dad was a "Bubba". I will say everything he attempted did work as he intended but wasnt flashy. Dad did cut down some K-98 mauser bring backs. He would put wooden pads on all long guns he owned as at 6ft 5"s he needed the extra LOP. Dad would cut or drill holes in his work shoes so they would "breathe." He altered many tools and things to fit or help him. All worked well, but he wasnt into finishing things to where they looked like "factory". He was strictly utilitarian and also was the most "conservative" man you ever met politically. Most everything he owned he "customized" to fit him and his purpose. Nothing got threw out either.

cussedemgun said:

As I do, how many here remember the surplus stores in the 1950's with barrels of rifles for sale.

Enfields for ~$10, Mausers for +/-$19.95, & the high dollar Springfields went for $25/$30.

The 03-A3's just sat there because no one wanted all those stamped parts & (shudder) a 2 groove barrel

Oh, & by the way, a couple of us "Idiots" that cut up some of those precious pieces of history were Griffin & Howe, & Hoffman Arms. Holler Idiot if you want, I think I'm in pretty good company

Click to expand...

I have a Smith Corona 03-A3 that I bought from a club member years ago. Had a two groove barrel put on it, replaced the stamped parts with the milled ones, put in a nickel steel bolt, and put the gun into an aftermarket "C" type hardwood stock. The rear sight had been changed out for a Lyman Adjustable target sight by the former owner. I put a Marine Corps style match target sight blade, that my Cousin made, on the gun, and I'm completely happy with it. The gun is very accurate and I have no inclination to sell it whatsoever.