Winchester 94 and M12 Riot Gun question

P&R Fan · Mar 4, 2015

Tomorrow I am once again taking several guns used by our military in to my daughters school to show the history class. I'm wondering if the 94 Winchester was ever issued, and in what conflicts?
Also, what about the M12 Riot Gun? I know the Trench Gun was widely used, but what about the plain old Riot Gun?
Thanks,
Jim

30-30remchester · Mar 4, 2015

I have never seen a 94 used by our military. They did buy some and flaming bomb mark a few for protection of our forests here at home. There is supposed to be a picture a model 94 being held by a sailor in a rubber raft on what is called a foraging party. Reputed to be from WW 2, I have never seen the photo. If it did exist I would assume private purchase. The model 12 riot guns were issued as camp and depot protection from what I have heard.

Jessie · Mar 4, 2015

I heard some were issued in the western states to home guards or reserves. I think in California, Oregon.
It may be what was mentioned above about Forest service officers, not sure.

This was in reference to the 94s.

Watchdog · Mar 4, 2015

P&R Fan said:
Tomorrow I am once again taking several guns used by our military in to my daughters school to show the history class. I'm wondering if the 94 Winchester was ever issued, and in what conflicts?
Also, what about the M12 Riot Gun? I know the Trench Gun was widely used, but what about the plain old Riot Gun?
Thanks,
Jim

The military "drafted" Model 12 Riot Guns for use in the war effort, but I can't find my notes that indicate just how many. But they had the flaming bomb and "U.S." rollmarked on the right side of the receiver. These guns without the heat shield and bayonet lug are pretty rare. They retained their factory blue finish and did not initially have sling swivels added. They also had the ordnance mark and inspector's stamp on the left side of the stock. They sometimes had a rack number stamped on the bottom of the pistol grip.

It's also my understanding that the majority of guns that were drafted into the military were parkerized, rollmarked, and had the heat shield and bayonet lug added, but they had a "W" marked on the left side of the bayonet lug to indicate that they were originally blued shotguns.

Don't know if this helps you much, but yeah, the regular ol' riot guns were used in the war.

These old blued guns that have the military markings on them are going for well over $3K now if they're in reasonable condition.

Jessie · Mar 4, 2015

I searched and found that 2000-3000 94s were issued to the Pacific Coast Militia Rangers by the Canadian govt. from 1942-1945.
They operated in British Columbia and the Yukon.
Members could buy them in 45' for $5 and those that weren't bought were destroyed. Shame

30-30remchester · Mar 4, 2015

It's also my understanding that the majority of guns that were drafted into the military were parkerized, rollmarked, and had the heat shield and bayonet lug added, but they had a "W" marked on the left side of the bayonet lug to indicate that they were originally blued shotguns.

Not trying to start an argument, but IIRC all Winchester shotguns were blued, not parkerized. There is some debate as to whether at the very end of the war, that Winchester parkerized a few. Some books say they did, but most collectors of the model 12's don't believe so. I was always told that if a Winchester shotgun was parkerized then it was a post war arsenal rebuild. But then again my memory is not as good as it used to be, and it used to be terrible.

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alwslate · Mar 5, 2015

I've seen a few articles in the American Rifleman and other publications
about military shotguns. The US used lots of Winchester mod 12s and
97s in WW2 as well as Remington 31s and a few others. All of the
standard Winchester riot guns were blued I believe. During the Viet
Nam war a lot of different riot guns were used including parkerized
Ithaca mod 37s. I remember one article that gave the number of
various guns used and the mod 12 was the most issued model
overall.

bigjohn4 · Mar 5, 2015

According to Canfield's book on First World War weapons a contract for 1800 1894 carbines was issued, but very little is known who they went to aside from some Signal Corps photos with them using them.

Texas Star · Mar 5, 2015

I was a USAF cop in the 1960's and some bases had those for prisoner guard duty and for if a riot broke out. Some men guarding certain buildings may have had them in lieu of carbines or AR-15's.

The late Bill Jordan told me that he used one and a M-1917 S&W .45 while hunting Japanese on Pacific islands during WW II. He was then a Marine officer, taking leave of the Border Patrol, to which he returned after the war.

wundudnee · Mar 5, 2015

Here's my "Bubba'ed" model 12 riot gun. Everything that could be done to this gun has been done to destroy any collectible value. It has a weaver choke installed, the WB cartouched stock has been checkered, a recoil pad installed, it has a replacement beaver tailed forearm and a white lined grip cap.

It does have the flaming bomb on the receiver and barrel, the US mark and the stock cartouche. It is still in the original blue. I gave $55.00 for this gun and a Boyt sheeplined case in 1954. It has been my favorite field gun since that time.

I try not to think what it would be worth now if it was unmolested.

LoboGunLeather · Mar 5, 2015

We had Winchester Model 12's when I was in the Army (late 60's to early 70's). Used them in Vietnam and also on stateside posts several times, both the "trench gun" configuration (heat shield and bayonet mount) and "riot gun" (about 20" plain barrel), all with sling swivels as I recall. Some units also had the Winchester 1897 "trench guns" in inventory. Ammunition issued included 00-buckshot and fleshette rounds (loaded with multiple steel darts).

I have personally examined two Model 94 Carbines with US Ordnance markings. My understanding is that these were acquired for use at sensitive military facilities by guards during WW2, but I can't quote an authority on that.

P&R Fan · Mar 5, 2015

Thanks for the responses.
I didn't take either one in to show the class.
I'll have a thread up in a few minutes about the ones I did take in.
Jim

Winchester 94 and M12 Riot Gun question

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