Waffenfabrik Bern 1878 Swiss ordnance 10.4 mm black powder revolver

CLASSIC12 · Apr 23, 2015

The kind of stuff you find in (wife's) grandpa's attic here in Switzerland

With the descent (Waffenfabrik Bern Parabellum 06/24 in .30 Luger / 7.65 mm Parabellum)

cgt4570 · Apr 23, 2015

Very nice! I think I've read that ammunition can be made for that from .44 S&W Russian brass and soft lead cast bullets.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 23, 2015

I don't think so, the 10.4 mm is a .41, not a .44. I've read you can shorten .41 Rem Mag case. But I won't try, never dabbed into black powder.

BearBio · Apr 23, 2015

Beautiful condition, though!

Frizzman · Apr 23, 2015

I really like that! Thanks for sharing the photos.

Ivan the Butcher · Apr 23, 2015

I am surprised that there isn't subsidized ammo for sale. Ivan

JohnRippert · Apr 23, 2015

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn! That is beautiful.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 24, 2015

Ivan the Butcher said:
I am surprised that there isn't subsidized ammo for sale. Ivan

Actually the swiss army still subsidizes ammo to shooters grouped in associations and using military driving ranges, but only for ammo that is still being considered "current". For handguns it includes 9 mm parabellum and 7.65 mm parabellum / .30 Luger (probably to be phased out soon). For rifles 5.6 mm swiss for SIG 550 as well as 7.5 X 55 mm swiss for SIG 510 as well as old straight line bolt rifles such as K31.

Ivan the Butcher · Apr 24, 2015

Well DWM has got to make ammo for it, they make ammo for everything! Also check RWS and Norma (I know they don't import it to the US, but they may make it.) Also there may be another country that used that round under a different name, but often in Europe it can be the same case but a different loading (that's why DWM gave everything a number besides the metric designation, after all there are 5 or 6 different 9 x 19 mm.) Good luck. Ivan

Peak53 · Apr 24, 2015

That's beautiful! And the hammer nose looks like it really means business. No light strikes with that baby

cgt4570 · Apr 24, 2015

CLASSIC12 said:
I don't think so, the 10.4 mm is a .41, not a .44. I've read you can shorten .41 Rem Mag case. But I won't try, never dabbed into black powder.

Sorry. It must be the Italian double action from the same era I was thinking of. No insult intended.

Cyrano · Apr 24, 2015

You may well be able to use the 44 Russian brass in that revolver. Try one and see. The Mauser 10.6mm case, DWM #7, for the zig-zag revolver, is identical to the 44 Russian, except for the 'A' base on the German case. The barrel diameter of one revolver I measured had a bore diameter of .416 inch and a groove diameter of .425 inch. And, yes, I'd use black powder, not smokeless in it.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 27, 2015

cgt4570 said:
Sorry. It must be the Italian double action from the same era I was thinking of. No insult intended.

Haha no insult taken. You're right the Italian Glisenti 10.4 mm can be made from .44 cases from what I've read.

CLASSIC12 · Apr 27, 2015

Ivan the Butcher said:
Well DWM has got to make ammo for it, they make ammo for everything! Also check RWS and Norma (I know they don't import it to the US, but they may make it.) Also there may be another country that used that round under a different name, but often in Europe it can be the same case but a different loading (that's why DWM gave everything a number besides the metric designation, after all there are 5 or 6 different 9 x 19 mm.) Good luck. Ivan

Cyrano said:
You may well be able to use the 44 Russian brass in that revolver. Try one and see. The Mauser 10.6mm case, DWM #7, for the zig-zag revolver, is identical to the 44 Russian, except for the 'A' base on the German case. The barrel diameter of one revolver I measured had a bore diameter of .416 inch and a groove diameter of .425 inch. And, yes, I'd use black powder, not smokeless in it.

Thanks for suggestions guys. This links (in french sorry, but with good pictures) shows a reload using Starline .41 Mag brass trimmed to 20 mm.

Revolver WF 1878 à la maison. Rechargement de la 1878 10.4mm

But to be honest I think I'll leave this 130 and something years lady to rest. I already reload some semi obsolete modern cartridges (10 mm auto, .45 Win Mag) and my next reload challenge is the completely obsolete .44 AMP as I just bought a North Hollywood Automag.

Ivan the Butcher · Apr 27, 2015

Wow, 44AMP, I bow before your "auto greatness!" Have a very fun time. Ivan

Question; the 10.4 Swiss bullet, Is it a healed bullet (like 22 rim fire) or is it an outside lubed bullet that fits inside the brass case? Ivan

CLASSIC12 · Apr 28, 2015

Ivan the Butcher said:
Wow, 44AMP, I bow before your "auto greatness!" Have a very fun time. Ivan

Question; the 10.4 Swiss bullet, Is it a healed bullet (like 22 rim fire) or is it an outside lubed bullet that fits inside the brass case? Ivan

Thanks, still awaiting delivery of the Automag.

Yes, the 10.4 mm Swiss is a metallic centerfire cartridge, with a heeled bullet (like .22 lr), which means that the bullet is the same diameter as the case, and has a narrower "heel" portion that fits in the case.

From Wikipedia

10.4mm Swiss Centerfire - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Waffenfabrik Bern 1878 Swiss ordnance 10.4 mm black powder revolver

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