Modern Sporting Rifles in short supply

If the issue is self-defense - ostensibly the reason for the current uptick in sales - it would seem the "accuracy" of a given rifle is largely meaningless. If you take a shot at 200 yards and claim you were in imminent danger, you're likely to have some explaining to do.

I don't own an MSR. The only rifle I have at the ready is a 10-22. I'm not concerned about needing more firepower.

How far can you throw a Molotov Cocktail or rock or frozen water bottles...what do you want if facing a mob of a 100,200 a thousand a 5 shot Model 36 or a semi-auto long gun????.

And no I'm not going to go meet and greet them on the patio after dinner!

As to 200yd shots...... folks were walking the streets of "CHOP" carrying ARs .......kind of throws the 21ft rule out the window.

It's becoming a strange strange world we live in these days. Heard on the news this morning that more people have been shot and killed/murdered in Chicago since 2001 than we lost troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.

It was on the news so it must be true.............................

If it is in fact true....... strange and scary

the 100 foot counter at Cabelas had zero rifles and almost no handguns yesterday. Plenty of long camo shotguns. No handgun ammo

If you think some variants of the Mini-14 are over-gassed, you should have tried the 20" Saiga I used to own. I traded it towards a straight WASR which was clearly MUCH better set up in the gas department.

I think I have enough guns and ammo until the prices return to sane, except for one revolver in Louisiana. A list of what is not in as short of supply as everything else: rimfire firearms and ammo.

In my area of the Midwest there's plenty of ARs on the shelves; a scant few AKs that are usually the cheaper WASR versions.

But ..... there ain't much else!

Beemerguy53 said:

With respect, I didn't say the Mini is inaccurate; I said it isn't as accurate as an AR.

I own both. They're both good rifles. My AR is more accurate than my Mini.

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No disrespect intended here either.

I'm saying I own three Mini 14s, the mostly box stock 180 series is 2 MOA accurate and the accurized 184 and 187 series are 1 1/2 MOA accurate, all with M193 and M193 clone ammo.

I'm also saying I own a number of ARs that I'll put in three groups accuracy wise.

Group 1:

- A 20" bull barrel varmint AR (1-9 twist and half MOA with 52-53 gr match bullets)
- A 20" HBAR service match AR 1-8 twist and half MOA with 69-77 gr match bullets)
- A 16" AR-15 in 9mm (Ballistic Advantage barrel, 1 MOA accurate with 115 gr XTP or 115 gr HAP)
- A 8.3" AR-15 braced pistol in 9mm (Ballistic Advantage barrel, 1 MOA accurate with 115 gr XTP or 115 gr HAP)

Group 2:

- A 20" pencil barrel SP1 (1.5 MOA with MOA with M193
- A 20" M16A1 upper half on an NDS-601 lower (1.5 MOA with M193)

Group 3:

- A 11.5" XM177E2 clone (3 MOA with M193)
- A 16" lightweight carbine (3 MOA with M193)
- A 16" Colt 6430 9mm carbine (3 MOA with 115 gt XTP or 115 gr HAP)
- A 16" M4gery (4 MOA with M193)

I've had a few more over the years including an Oly Arms 20" HBAR that I shot in service rifle competition in the late 1990s, and a Bushmaster Match rifle I shot after and before my current Match rifle. They fell in Group 1.

I also had a 16" bull barrel that fell in Group 2.

And I've had a couple other AR-15 over the years that fell in Group 3 that I've since sold.

My Mini 14s are comparable to the Group 2 AR-15s. Some AR-15 are more accurate, but they all match or varmint tuned rifles or carbines. There are also a lot of AR-15s that are not as accurate as my Mini 14s.

The point here is that you can't make the broad statement that an AR-15 is more accurate than a Mini 14. "AR-15" covers a broad range of configurations and levels of quality.

I won this in a Texas State Rifle Association raffle, six or seven years ago.

Rock River Arms LAR-15.



So far, the longest distance I've shot this rifle was fifty yards. It shoots great and has an incredible trigger.

JS Esq. said:

If the issue is self-defense - ostensibly the reason for the current uptick in sales - it would seem the "accuracy" of a given rifle is largely meaningless. If you take a shot at 200 yards and claim you were in imminent danger, you're likely to have some explaining to do.../

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I agree that you'd need to have to demonstrate an imminent threat existed. On the other hand we are living in some strange times right now, and threats can exist at long range.

I grew up out west and I had one relative shot at by an assailant with a rifle in the 1980s. (There were some racial tensions involved). He kept driving out of the kill zone, but had that not been possible, he'd have stood virtually zero chance with just a pistol.

There are reasons officers carry patrol rifles, and in a rural area one of those reasons is very much self defense. The same can apply to civilians when faced with an assailant with a rifle over open ground with little or no cover and/or a very slow police response time - if you even have cell coverage to call the police.

----

At the moment my preferred truck gun is an AR-15 braced pistol in 9mm with a Burris 332 on top. As a handgun I can legally carry it loaded in my vehicle, along with a bag full of 32 round magazines, I can reliably hit torso size targets with it out to 200 yards and at about 120 dB it won't leave me deaf if I have to use it in close quarters.

Do I expect to engage an assailant at 200 yards? No. But it's nice to have the capability to engage an assailant at ranges beyond where I can accurately and effectively engage a point target with my conceal carry CZ 75 PCR or CZ 2075 RAMI.

Beemerguy53 said:

Just my opinion, but I think for all practical purposes, a Ruger Mini-14 is every bit as good as an AR for emergencies. No, the Ruger isn't as accurate as an AR, and there are not as many accessories and gimcracks for it, but if you need to defend home and hearth from a lawless mob when the police are not available, it will do the job just fine.

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I agree. I had a Mini once. Wish I kept it. My extremely rabid anti-gun sister in law came over years ago and saw my safe. Asked to see what I had so I figured I’d make her look stupid. Open it and there’s a few bolt guns. Pump action 12 gauge. Mini 14. AR-15.

She points to the AR and asks why I have a machine gun. No explanation of her error was accepted. I take out the wood Mini and say “how about this?” She says that’s fine. I take a 40 round Mini magazine and slap it in. Say same caliber, capacity, rate of fire, range, etc. she blinks a few times and say “get rid of that one too, then”.

Mini’s don’t look scary and they do the job just fine. If they weren’t so stupid expensive I’d own another one.

I bought a bunch of 80% lowers, assembly kits and various uppers a couple years ago.. I already had an ar15 and a mini 14 I had setup. Big jugs of powder and lots of bullets and primers, plus a 224 mold and a 200 gr 308 mold. Added another 2000 loaded rounds right at the begin of the covid deal I think I am good to go.

Was at the LGS yesterday and, as has been the case for several months, popular ammo was nowhere to be found, (38spl and 357mag being two exceptions). Thinking of some of the more obscure residents of my safe, there was plenty of 303 British, 32 Win Spl, and 30-40 Krag. Would I choose any of those over an AR? Of course not, but any of them would be better than a pocket full of stones.

kbm6893 said:

My extremely rabid anti-gun sister in law came over years ago and saw my safe. Asked to see what I had .....

She points to the AR and asks why I have a machine gun. No explanation of her error was accepted. I take out the wood Mini and say “how about this?” She says that’s fine. I take a 40 round Mini magazine and slap it in. Say same caliber, capacity, rate of fire, range, etc. she blinks a few times and say “get rid of that one too, then”.

M.

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I stopped listening to my sister in law the day after my wife and I got married......... 9/11/93

As I posted earlier my Mini goes out with an almost flush fit 10rd factory magazine...... very PC looking ........ backed up by 20rd factory magazines.

Probably be a lot more Mini's out there if Bill Ruger had sold more than just 5rd mags to the general public..........................

BAM-BAM said:

I stopped listening to my sister in law the day after my wife and I got married......... 9/11/93

As I posted earlier my Mini goes out with an almost flush fit 10rd factory magazine...... very PC looking ........ backed up by 20rd factory magazines.

Probably be a lot more Mini's out there if Bill Ruger had sold more than just 5rd mags to the general public..........................

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Or perhaps because Minis are currently going for for $800 - new or used.

I am seeing complete ARs, uppers, 80% lowers and magazines, but no complete lowers or ammo.

CH4 said:

Or perhaps because they are currently going for for $800 - new or used.

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"currently" yes...... but back in Bill's time the choice was a mini with 5rds or an AR with 20-30........ most folks chose the AR.... at a higher price.

LOL only "The A-Team" had 20rd mags that worked!!!!!!

Aftermarket mags for the mini have never had a good reputation.


That said my philosophy is that a 5rd mag will meet 99% of my shooting needs(though I am fond of the newer 10rd mags)....... for me 20 rounders are for SHTF and 30rd mags are the TEOTWAWKI.

BAM-BAM said:

"currently" yes...... but back in Bill's time the choice was a mini with 5rds or an AR with 20-30........ most folks chose the AR.... at a higher price.

LOL only "The A-Team" had 20rd mags that worked!!!!!!

Aftermarket mags for the mini have never had a good reputation.

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Yes, I remember when minis were about $250 and a Colt AR was double that, if you could find one. I had 2 14s and a 30. I couldn’t hit the broad side of a bus with any of them. Sold them all. Back then I don’t recall many aftermarket magazines, mine were all the factory mags that came with the rifle; I think they were 10 or 20 rounders.

Had two Mini’s, won’t be a third, sticking to my scary AR’s because I could care less what anyone thinks of them.

The beginning of 2020 sure has been good for the firearms industry.

As someone behind the counter here is the guns sales timeline of the last few months as I see it.

As things began to lock down and oil prices dropped handgun sales and the sales of home defense short barrel shotguns took off. Ammo sales and magazine sale skyrocketed. Most of the buyers of firearms tended to be first time buyers. Many of them admitted they were kind of anti gun in the past but thought they might need one now. For a couple of weeks it was like Black Friday sales each and everyday.

After that rush which severely depleted inventory things began to settle down. Sales were still brisk but we weren't slammed from opening to closed.

Then came the riots; business picked up again but the product mix changed a bit. AR, Ak and SKS sales took off as did full size semi auto pistol sales. There is a different feel to this buying.

Maybe it is a generational thing, maybe it is the video games people play but a one type of younger customer sure prefers Eastern Block firearms including old Mosin-Negant bolt rifles but will buy what we have when nothing else is available.

The slightly older buyers seem to be tactical shotgun, AR, M1A, Garand buyers. They are buying full size 9mm handguns at a brisk pace but they are also a little more likely to buy revolvers and 1911s.

Right now if it is tacticool it doesn't stay on the shelf ammo, mags, firearms, etc. I'm just glad I'm an old fashion revolver guy and I'm looking forward to hunting season. I can buy ammo for my big game rifles and revolvers.

I've not seen the I'm buying modern sporting rifles to flip closer or after the election buyers. The customers buying now are buying what they think they might need. This doesn't feel like the sales stimulated by elections and gun control talks.

You can draw your on conclusions on what it all means.

That was my ramble for the day.

CH4 said:

Yes, I remember when minis were about $250 and a Colt AR was double that, if you could find one. I had 2 14s and a 30. I couldn’t hit the broad side of a bus with any of them. Sold them all. Back then I don’t recall many aftermarket magazines, mine were all the factory mags that came with the rifle; I think they were 10 or 20 rounders.

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Bill/Ruger did sell 20s to law enforcement .....but not to the common man.

I thought the 10s were a recent offering.

ladder13 said:

Had two Mini’s, won’t be a third, sticking to my scary AR’s because I could care less what anyone thinks of them.

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Carrying a Mini- with a 10 round mag and a 1-3 scope (set on 1X) is kind of like carrying a concealed handgun.......... 2-4rounds ...... bangbangbang... down range ..... SURPRISE!!!!

I've seen the surprise on folks faces at the range.... followed by "What is that"